Jump to content
Joseph

Halo Problems

Halo Issues  

274 members have voted

  1. 1. SHOULD SPRINT/FLINCH STAY IN HALO?

    • Yes, both mechanics belong in Halo.
    • Sprint belongs, but Flinch should be taken out.
    • Flinch belongs, but Sprint should be taken out.
    • No, neither mechanic belongs in Halo.


Recommended Posts

I would love a rank system that offers tiers like Reach did with the 50% Onyx and the 1% Onyx ranks. Not every 50/Onyx player is on the same level. Pro's had 50's in Halo 3 and so did a lot of players who weren't pro's. The system needs to change and have more restrictions on who can play who.

 

Combine 1-50 with Leagues system

 

Diamond 50

Platinum 50

Gold 50

Silver 50

Bronze 50

 

that would be the dope as fuck..

We're talking about Josh Menke, he might do that or something even amazing-er, maybe, we just have to wait.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't see how leagues and the old system is any different other than one uses numbers and one uses letter.

 

I'd just pick the 1-50 because if it aint broke don't fix it type of deal. League's system does seem more like halo3's with mmr. Halo2 its just strictly win/loss

League uses ELO too like H2.

 

For those unaware, the top division in league (Diamond, lets not mention Challenger) only has 0.65% of the ranked population. The 2nd highest, Platinum, only has 2% of the ranked population. Halo should be aiming for something like this to really show of the best of the best and not make it like H3 where a 50 meant nothing.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I hope that the game will reward and empower individuals rather than force teamwork. This will make the competitive scene--online or otherwise--much more accessible for skilled players. You shouldn't need to roll with a full team in order to make a difference and go far. It was so cool to see so many unheard of players come out of the woodwork for H4GC, people who probably wouldn't have gotten as far because finding a really good team is really difficult, especially with the current online state. And the best thing is that teamwork will not suffer because of an emphasis on individual play; in fact, it will be expanded and diversified because of how much more each player on a team can do.

There are only a few changes needed to accomplish this:

• Spawn every player in nearly all playlists with a skillful (very low bullet magnetism), potentially powerful (TTK < 1 second), and reliable (low spread/bloom or not any at all) utility weapon that can challenge all other weapons in the game.

• Improve strafing mechanics.

• Anything else?

 

- The reason for this post in this thread is that I feel the last few games limited the lone wolf's ability. 343, you put so much work into optimizing the campaign to be a perfect single player experience, so why stop in the campaign? If you truly want new players--people who probably haven't made friends in the Halo community yet--to find success, I highly recommend you implement these simple changes.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You want too many things as options. Instead of having all the things we want as options in custom settings, the default settings need to have what we want. I don't just want 1 playlist without sprint. I want them all without sprint. I don't want just one playlist with descope. I want them all to have descope. Too many options will cause the game to have an identity crisis like Reach. In Reach there were 100% bloom playlists, 85% bloom playlists, zero bloom playlists, playlists where everyone had sprint, playlists with no sprint, etc.. It was just too much.

I'm merely advocating for more options. I personally have no preference for what features are implemented into each playlist as long as its balanced.

 

Lets get back to traditional Halo here

I think Halo needs to evolve in order to remain viable, but it needs to be balanced better in order to remain competitive.
 

Descoping / Flinch should not be optional

I think it should be an option in the 'Gametype Options' under 'Base Player Traits'. Competitive players can have it their way in their matches and casual players can have it in their settings.  This does not eliminate a skill gap when people want to compete and it does not "jar" casual players.

 

Loadouts

I just enjoy having my best setup versus my opponents best setup.

 

Ordnances were never really random?.... What???? They were indeed 100% random.

There are two kinds 'World/Map Ordnances' and 'Personal Ordnances'. 'Map/World Ordnances' had a set of possible locations on every map and drop every few minutes and could be somewhat predicted. Personal Ordnances were slightly random when uncontrolled, but as we saw with Ghost's settings they can be restricted by using the parameters of the gametype's settings.

 

Armor Abilities

They definitely still need balancing..

 

Auto Flag Pickup / Flag Juggling

Having more options never hurt anyone. I love having the choice between flag juggling and showing your route or moving slowly with stealth. However, there is a real reason behind having autopickup. In previous titles, you could walk up to a flag, hold your pickup button, and somehow get killed before the game registered you holding the button long enough. We have all experienced this and, in some cases, it has been the deciding factor in some matches. Now, you either touched the flag or you didn't. In continuation, a player should be given the option to drop the flag at anytime.

 

Throwing the Oddball 

You are correct. It does not belong in competitive play because its too easy to clear (this diminishes the importance of creating setups). However, it should stay optional. Grifball was revolutionized because throwing the ball opened up the entire court. The throwing mechanism is also used in Ricochet. In order to support these gametypes, it should be an optional feature.  

 

Sorry, I took so long to get back to you! midterms the past 2 weeks :/

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Loadouts

I just enjoy having my best setup versus my opponents best setup.

The game should already spawn you with a good weapon and all of the "perks" that were originally base traits: grenade pick-up, quiet footsteps, decently quick shield recharge, useful grenades, I could go on.... Let the player, not the game, determine the outcome.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The game should already spawn you with a good weapon and all of the "perks" that were originally base traits: grenade pick-up, quiet footsteps, decently quick shield recharge, useful grenades, I could go on.... Let the player, not the game, determine the outcome.

Loadouts outs do some need fine-tuning. But once/if they are balanced, then we will a lot more of having the 'player determine the outcome.'

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Loadout choices should include the utility weapons, like the BR and Carbine, and the Assault Rifle. Nothing else. We don't need stripped down base player traits to justify the existence of perks. There is no such thing as a "sidearm" or "secondary weapon" in Halo. Armor Abilities should be adjusted to be Equipment, Power Ups, or simply removed entirely. Frags should be the standard off spawn grenade. Allowing so much of the sandbox in loadouts destroys any semblance of balance that could be had.

Share this post


Link to post

Loadout choices should include the utility weapons, like the BR and Carbine, and the Assault Rifle. Nothing else. We don't need stripped down base player traits to justify the existence of perks. There is no such thing as a "sidearm" or "secondary weapon" in Halo. Armor Abilities should be adjusted to be Equipment, Power Ups, or simply removed entirely. Frags should be the standard off spawn grenade. Allowing so much of the sandbox in loadouts destroys any semblance of balance that could be had.

1) I hope we don't get the BR for a fourth time.

2) I hope the Carbine isn't a loadout weapon because it would most likely be inferior to the UNSC rifle (singular) for the reason that it shoots "green rainbows." That would make me sad. Make it more powerful and put it on the map.

3) Here's the only way loadouts can work (besides Invasion), and this is still only for casual playlists:

Loadout 1: Utility gun + AR + Frags + Thruster Pack.

Loadout 2: Utility gun + AR + Frags + Hologram

 

The game needs to be balanced from the ground up based on the utility rifle. Just as you cannot balance a game with two movement speeds, so also can you not balance a game with two utility rifles. Loadouts are by nature unbalanced.

 

Edit: And to further reduce the unpredictability of the two spawning armor abilities, Thruster Pack would constantly have short, glowing jets behind the player model which would lengthen during use. If a player does not have that visual cue, then he must have Hologram. The Hologram's main asset is the element of surprise; therefore it would does not require a visual cue in addition to a character model walking in a straight line.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Loadouts outs do some need fine-tuning. But once/if they are balanced, then we will a lot more of having the 'player determine the outcome.'

Loadouts by nature are unbalanced. They are designed to let players who play enough gain advantages over others before the match begins.

Think of it as a sort of horizontal asymptote that prevents a function from having a specific output, such as "1". The closer loadouts come to being balanced, the less and less the elements that differentiate the loadouts actually differ. The different choices just end up as clutter and an obstacle for variety. An illusion of variety.

 

Unless you know some way to make loadout choices meaningful yet preserve in-game player choice...?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

You can't have part of the game be one way and the other the complete opposite. You then have two different games. 

 

Having one playlist with bloom and the other without solves nothing and just separates the community. Why not just have some playlists with ADS? What about shields? Should shields be an option? 

 

We shouldn't be confining ourselves to custom games. We need a concise set of good mechanics across the board so everyone wins.

In the case of H4, some mechanics are good, some need to be redone, and others need to be dropped entirely. If we would have just had descope from the start everyone would win. Flinch for example doesn't need to be in the game at all. Having it as an option or god forbid as a playlist-only mechanic just creates more fucking shootin sammys. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You can't have part of the game be one way and the other the complete opposite. You then have two different games. 

 

Should shields be an option? 

SWAT...?

Share this post


Link to post

The closer loadouts come to being balanced, the less and less the elements that differentiate the loadouts actually differ. The different choices just end up as clutter and an obstacle for variety. An illusion of variety.

Joshua Menke argues for perceived fairness as opposed to statistical fairness when it comes to ranking systems. Perception is what really counts.

Share this post


Link to post

I have to agree with some of the mentioned mechanics being taken away/changed, but here is what I see:  You guys want a Halo that is nearly exactly like the past Halos just update. I see that you want..lets see...descope, which I agree heavily with, ranks in game, a BIG yes, but having both skill and progressing ranks would be nice....sprint and A.As, I like them in select playlists and not the whole game, but they would be nice in Forge/Custom games. Why not?  they arent interferrging with the online part..just messing with them in customs/forge is fun!

Here is the part where I address my other thoughts and what I draw from these posts: Ordinances are good for a select social playlist or two. They are neat feature for people who arent hardcore. Why? Because It mixes up the game and makes it different in every encounter. Or...wait! Here is something! Have one social playlist with ordinances and one with out them. That could work.  lol.

What will be best is to have playlists that expand what we already have...though add subplaylists to those social slayer, not really the ranked stuff, for more variation. Flag jugling is important for RANKED playlists...it shouldltn always matter for social.

I could say a LOT more on this, but I am working on homework right now. So I will see what your responses are and go from there.

Share this post


Link to post

forgot to add this to my post....why do you want to have almost everything the same/similar from the last halos for a great Halo game?  Its time to innovate and move on from being in the past with stuff. I understand COMPLETELY that you guys want a lot of the Halo mechanics/what made the games great to be put back in, but that AND more needs to be done to make it not a copy and paste, but to change and rerevolutionalise the game and innovate. Its tough, but now is the time to show both the developer and for the developer to show us that they can make the ultimate Halo game that will be remembered for years to come.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

forgot to add this to my post....why do you want to have almost everything the same/similar from the last halos for a great Halo game? Its time to innovate and move on from being in the past with stuff. I understand COMPLETELY that you guys want a lot of the Halo mechanics/what made the games great to be put back in, but that AND more needs to be done to make it not a copy and paste, but to change and rerevolutionalise the game and innovate. Its tough, but now is the time to show both the developer and for the developer to show us that they can make the ultimate Halo game that will be remembered for years to come.

You can edit posts after the fact, just so you know.

 

I think everyone here wants Halo to innovate. The problem is that the developers seem to think that the definition of innovation is "change for the sake of change." No longer do we trust the developers to "innovate" Halo. The good stuff is really good: dynamic lighting in Forge, Extraction, etc. But the bad stuff is really bad: Regicide, Mantis, perks, custom loadouts, and tons of other stuff.

 

Innovation means making stuff better, not just throwing in a bunch of features that no one really wants. At this point, Halo has innovated so much stuff that is unique from other games that simply putting everything that was already good from past games into the next one would be enough.

 

Again I ask, why would you want something new over something that is better?

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

If they would just bring Invasion back as a playlist (or category) then all of the shit from Halo 4 would have a place to reside.

 

Would it be so bad if there were 3 playlists done Invasion style where players could use AAs, perks and loadouts? I think not. Would add a strategy element to setting up your team situationally.

Share this post


Link to post

Joshua Menke argues for perceived fairness as opposed to statistical fairness when it comes to ranking systems. Perception is what really counts.

First, ranking systems and weapon sandboxes are completely different beasts.

 

Second, in the context of loadouts, how does statistical fairness not result in perceived fairness?

 

Third, how can a loadout system with different weapons possessing superior and inferior characteristics have perceived fairness?

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You can edit posts after the fact, just so you know.

 

I think everyone here wants Halo to innovate. The problem is that the developers seem to think that the definition of innovation is "change for the sake of change." No longer do we trust the developers to "innovate" Halo. The good stuff is really good: dynamic lighting in Forge, Extraction, etc. But the bad stuff is really bad: Regicide, Mantis, perks, custom loadouts, and tons of other stuff.

 

Innovation means making stuff better, not just throwing in a bunch of features that no one really wants. At this point, Halo has innovated so much stuff that is unique from other games that simply putting everything that was already good from past games into the next one would be enough.

 

Again I ask, why would you want something new over something that is better?

Some developers think like that, but dont always make a bad game..but meerly a decent game  that is still fun. *cough* DICE *cough*

Ok..how in the world is Regicide bad? Its a fun FFA gametype that you could tryhard in or not. I love it, but team regicide does suck. 343 Industries just needs to fix regicide from being where all your killls, as King, inrease your score to only the first couple kills do. That way they games last longer and dont have one noob that started -5 and is barely surviving somehow kills the king and wins by 40 points. 

Also Point 2: The how is the Mantis bad? Its a neat new vehicle that takes team work or a few lasers/ multiple snipers to take out. On the other hand, perks are annoying I agree. They number too much and, even if they are fun in some social slayer games, they just dont fit well.  Custom Loadouts are okay, and I feel like for the most part 343 made REALLY good loadouts. MUCH more balanced than Call of Duty, though there are still a couple problems (ie: Boltshot, too many perks, DMR vs BR.)

From your reply, thats my two cents...for now. 

Share this post


Link to post

Some developers think like that, but dont always make a bad game..but meerly a decent game that is still fun. *cough* DICE *cough*

Ok..how in the world is Regicide bad? Its a fun FFA gametype that you could tryhard in or not. I love it, but team regicide does suck. 343 Industries just needs to fix regicide from being where all your killls, as King, inrease your score to only the first couple kills do. That way they games last longer and dont have one noob that started -5 and is barely surviving somehow kills the king and wins by 40 points.

Also Point 2: The how is the Mantis bad? Its a neat new vehicle that takes team work or a few lasers/ multiple snipers to take out. On the other hand, perks are annoying I agree. They number too much and, even if they are fun in some social slayer games, they just dont fit well. Custom Loadouts are okay, and I feel like for the most part 343 made REALLY good loadouts. MUCH more balanced than Call of Duty, though there are still a couple problems (ie: Boltshot, too many perks, DMR vs BR.)

From your reply, thats my two cents...for now.

A single broken aspect can ruin a feature. In Regicide, you are punished for getting the most kills by having your position revealed.

The Mantis can be extremely campy because of the shield recharge.

Armor abilities like Jetpack still break map design. Not to mention Sprint.

 

Halo 4 isn't the only game plagued by these obvious problems. Reach had bloom and Sprint, but once they were taken out, the game was fantastic. Halo 3's Battle Rifle had random spread that just killed the pace of the game rather than the people you were aiming for; if the BR had no spread, like in Halo 2, the game would be at least twice as good.

 

We start to see this recurring trend where removing things that the developer adds makes the gameplay better. So why don't we all go back to the games that didn't have the new features like sprint, custom loadouts, random spread, and other atrocities? Well, we can't, really. Halo CE and Halo 2 are only accessible through XBC, which is very laggy for most people. Halo 3's netcode is garbage. Halo Reach doesn't have a ranking system, and there isn't a whole lot of excitement to play it.

Do you see our dilemma? Even after playing the best matchmaking experience yet, Halo 2 (we can argue here), from 2004 to when the servers shut down, we still want more of the same thing--granted, with some slight improvements, but mostly the same game.

 

Halo isn't one of those things you can just move on from. It's also not something that people want to "adapt" to.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Loadouts outs do some need fine-tuning. But once/if they are balanced, then we will a lot more of having the 'player determine the outcome.'

...You really want loadouts?

 

They're never going to be balanced

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

A single broken aspect can ruin a feature. In Regicide, you are punished for getting the most kills by having your position revealed.

The Mantis can be extremely campy because of the shield recharge.

Armor abilities like Jetpack still break map design. Not to mention Sprint.

 

Halo 4 isn't the only game plagued by these obvious problems. Reach had bloom and Sprint, but once they were taken out, the game was fantastic. Halo 3's Battle Rifle had random spread that just killed the pace of the game rather than the people you were aiming for; if the BR had no spread, like in Halo 2, the game would be at least twice as good.

 

We start to see this recurring trend where removing things that the developer adds makes the gameplay better. So why don't we all go back to the games that didn't have the new features like sprint, custom loadouts, random spread, and other atrocities? Well, we can't, really. Halo CE and Halo 2 are only accessible through XBC, which is very laggy for most people. Halo 3's netcode is garbage. Halo Reach doesn't have a ranking system, and there isn't a whole lot of excitement to play it.

Do you see our dilemma? Even after playing the best matchmaking experience yet, Halo 2 (we can argue here), from 2004 to when the servers shut down, we still want more of the same thing--granted, with some slight improvements, but mostly the same game.

 

Halo isn't one of those things you can just move on from. It's also not something that people want to "adapt" to.

Here is the thing for me: I do care about the broke parts of the game but...I simply have fun with them. I find ways to enjoy them. Thats what I love about the changes Halo offers EVERY GAME. I can find new ways to have fun.

Random spread wasnt bad in Halo 3 is you were in a CQB....it was good for skill. IT sucked at a range, which is why I just shoot the guy till he falls. The netcode wasnt great..sure. I agree, but with decent internet its ok....for me atleast. And my connection isnt THAT good.

Reachs progresssing ranks were okay..but got boring. Though I agree with the sprint somewhat...and I thought Halo 2s BR had a slight spread, but I know it was hitscan. Reach was not great with sprint and Bloom, but I enjoy reduced bloom and NS.  I hated the DMR in Reach but now I like it because I HATE HAlo 4s DMR. The only things I like about Halo 4s DMR is the way the gun looks and the sound effect. I think its visually an amazing rifle and makes a SICK firing sound compared to Reachs airsoft pistol DMR sound....

After bloom was taken out for with that playlists I really liked Reach more, but it still wasnt up the the standard (obviously) of the past games. yet I still enjoy the game.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I would love a rank system that offers tiers like Reach did with the 50% Onyx and the 1% Onyx ranks. Not every 50/Onyx player is on the same level. Pro's had 50's in Halo 3 and so did a lot of players who weren't pro's. The system needs to change and have more restrictions on who can play who.

 

Combine 1-50 with Leagues system

 

Diamond 50

Platinum 50

Gold 50

Silver 50

Bronze 50

 

that would be the dope as fuck..

 

I think that would be amazing

Share this post


Link to post

League uses ELO too like H2.

 

For those unaware, the top division in league (Diamond, lets not mention Challenger) only has 0.65% of the ranked population. The 2nd highest, Platinum, only has 2% of the ranked population. Halo should be aiming for something like this to really show of the best of the best and not make it like H3 where a 50 meant nothing.

 

wow...that is incredible

Share this post


Link to post

You can take a game like Flappy Bird and apply it to Halo.

 

Flappy bird is so damn frustrating and hard, but you keep going back over and over again to try and beat your score and your friends score.  If the game was easy I would beat it once then never play it again.  You can apply the same simple idea to any FPS game on the console.  You make it too accessible and too easy to achieve that top rank people will lose interest very quickly.  I think all of the ideas that 343 had about Halo 4 when it came to a ranking system / not even being able to see your rank in game really hurt them whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.  People love to compete, and not every competition has to be SUPER TRYHARD MLG SWEATING CALLOUTS.  I had friends who hated MLG but would have friendly competitions with one another in Halo 2 and Halo 3 trying to get a 50 and would rag on eachother / give eachother shit if someone was ahead.. just like you can have friends over to your house and play a friendly competitive game of poker... It engages players more and makes things more interesting, but only if you are playing for real money.  If I am playing poker with my friends with fake chips I dont really care and if I lose it does not really bother me / I dont put as much effort into the game.

 

A League of legends style "Diamond" league would be awesome where less than 1% of the population was ranked into an elite class.  It gives people something to strive for because if you do manage to get into the elite class or even get CLOSE to it, people see that and just say "holy shit" this guy is a young legend.

 

 

What I think went wrong in Halo 4 with Ranks:

 

- The game launched with no ranks. 

 

- CSR was implemented way too late, people had already lost interest in the game.

 

- When CSR was put into the game you could not see it and had to take 5 extra steps to go onto the Halowaypoint site and manually search for your ranks / other players ranks which in my opinion is totally unnecessary. 

 

 

What I think the solution is:

 

- The game should come out of the box with ranks included

 

- Ranks that you can see in game.  It is human nature to compete with other people, it only makes the game more interesting / engages players more if they have that "fire" to one up their buddies / friends.

 

- Ladder and League Play system. Even though I don't think we will get as hardcore of a Ladder system as League of Legends, if we at least get close it will benefit the game greatly.  However 343's attitude (at least with Halo 4) was to have the game as open as possible to new players - so going off of that I feel like we might have a league play / ladder system but it wont be as "elite" or segregated as we see in League of Legends with Diamond and Plat divisions making up less than 3% of players, but we will see.  Hopefully the new competitive staff additions on the 343 roster can help influence some much needed changes to how Halo ranks are perceived... We have been without them for way too long.. the last time I saw an in game rank was in 2010, and then Reach came out and started the dreadful, played out rankless Credit and "XP" trend that every game seems to be currently entrenched in right now.. even Titanfall (sad face). 

 

- Take it a step further and add leaderboards that showcase the top TEN players in every playlist - if I am a player let me link my twitter, facebook and twitch tv channel to the leaderboard so I can build a fanbase / people know where to find me.  This will lead to more players trying to play to get on the leaderboard AND the people who are already on top will be advertising your game for free via streaming and social media.  The team slayer Top 200 is a good first stepping stone I think, but showcasing the Top 200 players is a bit excessive to me, cut it down to top 10 or something more elite so everyone and their grandma cant play 4 games of infinity slayer and qualify.  Leaderboards should be exclusive to players who truly grind and put in the work. 

 

 

TL;DR - Solution: Ranks you can see, Leaderboards, flappy bird embedded into the pre game lobby so you can get your adrenaline pumping before matches

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.