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Joseph

Halo Problems

Halo Issues  

274 members have voted

  1. 1. SHOULD SPRINT/FLINCH STAY IN HALO?

    • Yes, both mechanics belong in Halo.
    • Sprint belongs, but Flinch should be taken out.
    • Flinch belongs, but Sprint should be taken out.
    • No, neither mechanic belongs in Halo.


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so they can try to make us all bitch in the same topic. 7 pages, seems to be at least slightly effective

Better bitch everything we have been said for the past year and almost a half in a thread than repeating everything in several threads through out the time.

 

In my opinion this is more like Official Debate Thread, but for Halo Problems specifically. 

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so they can try to make us all bitch in the same topic. 7 pages, seems to be at least slightly effective

 

Still seems kind of useless at this point.  

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You know before this thread was pinned I mentioned that it would be good to have one thread list all the problem. The issue I have with this thread listing the problems is that it doesn't. It is scattered. I wanted to see the first post updated constantly with each additional problem that people added. It would have been nice to list every problem ever mentioned as a list of links to each post in the thread, like the first post was a table of contents. Then the thread would be worthy of a pin.

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This is coming from an extremely casual Halo player. Don't misunderstand - I compete to win every game, but I recognize that I am below average when it comes to skill - especially in game decision making.

 

The Halo franchise is the only reason I own an Xbox360, and the only reason I would consider buying an XboxOne.

 

Remove Sprint? - I can take this or leave it. I really don't think this is as bad as it is made out to be, but I do understand how in a competitive playlist, having it turned off (or at least the option to turn it off) would be beneficial.

Game Ranks / League play - Absolutely. And there definitely should be a Ranked / Social split a la Halo 3.

Descoping - Another issue like Sprint. It is probably because I'm so bad at the game that I don't understand how Flinch is so much worse than Descope. Or how adjusting to Descope take more skill.

Spectator Mode - Absolutely.

No Loadouts - I'm in favor of preset / playlist specific loadouts here. I'm fine with people choosing between a BR and a Carbine for their starting rifle. No boltshot, no plasma grenades, no AA, etc.

Random Ordinance gone - Absolutely. Also, get rid of personal ordinance (except perhaps some preset AAs like in Throwdown).

AA gone - Certain AAs shouldn't be Loadout options. Active Camo as one example. However, having them available on maps like Reach MLG (Jetpack on Sanctuary) seems fine.

AutoFlag pickup gone - I think 343i tried to find a balance between other games where you pickup the flag but still move normally and have your weapon vs previous Halos where when carrying the flag you were slower with NO weapon.

Flag Juggling returns - see above. I could just as easily see their response being auto pickup with no restrictions like other games.

KotH - I don't know what is broken about it in Halo 4 (did I mention I play socially?)

Throwing Oddball - I don't have an issue with the throwing of the oddball (see KotH above).

Join in Progress - if it isn't outright gone, at least make it a toggle option. I NEVER want to join a game in progress. And definitely remove it from any and all ranked playlists.

Arena Maps - Halo 4 maps did seem rather large, perhaps to accommodate Sprint?

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If you look at 343's focus for spawning safely away from enemies you see they need large maps and that in turn begs for sprint. Assuming this is their chief reason for sprint you can see their philosophy on spawning needs to change a little. They need to stop viewing distance as safety and adopt a spawn engine that allows them to properly view safe spawning in the context of time to engagement.

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Well as of right now, the worst "spectator" mode we can get is twitch broadcast on the Xbox One. I mean anyone with an Xbox one can watch the players live stream.... soooo that's on the plus side.

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This is coming from an extremely casual Halo player. Don't misunderstand - I compete to win every game, but I recognize that I am below average when it comes to skill - especially in game decision making.

 

The Halo franchise is the only reason I own an Xbox360, and the only reason I would consider buying an XboxOne.

 

Remove Sprint? - I can take this or leave it. I really don't think this is as bad as it is made out to be, but I do understand how in a competitive playlist, having it turned off (or at least the option to turn it off) would be beneficial.

Game Ranks / League play - Absolutely. And there definitely should be a Ranked / Social split a la Halo 3.

Descoping - Another issue like Sprint. It is probably because I'm so bad at the game that I don't understand how Flinch is so much worse than Descope. Or how adjusting to Descope take more skill.

Spectator Mode - Absolutely.

No Loadouts - I'm in favor of preset / playlist specific loadouts here. I'm fine with people choosing between a BR and a Carbine for their starting rifle. No boltshot, no plasma grenades, no AA, etc.

Random Ordinance gone - Absolutely. Also, get rid of personal ordinance (except perhaps some preset AAs like in Throwdown).

AA gone - Certain AAs shouldn't be Loadout options. Active Camo as one example. However, having them available on maps like Reach MLG (Jetpack on Sanctuary) seems fine.

AutoFlag pickup gone - I think 343i tried to find a balance between other games where you pickup the flag but still move normally and have your weapon vs previous Halos where when carrying the flag you were slower with NO weapon.

Flag Juggling returns - see above. I could just as easily see their response being auto pickup with no restrictions like other games.

KotH - I don't know what is broken about it in Halo 4 (did I mention I play socially?)

Throwing Oddball - I don't have an issue with the throwing of the oddball (see KotH above).

Join in Progress - if it isn't outright gone, at least make it a toggle option. I NEVER want to join a game in progress. And definitely remove it from any and all ranked playlists.

Arena Maps - Halo 4 maps did seem rather large, perhaps to accommodate Sprint?

bad =/= casual

trying to win every game is a competitive nature

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If you look at 343's focus for spawning safely away from enemies you see they need large maps and that in turn begs for sprint. Assuming this is their chief reason for sprint you can see their philosophy on spawning needs to change a little. They need to stop viewing distance as safety and adopt a spawn engine that allows them to properly view safe spawning in the context of time to engagement.

I mean you can pretty much safely spawn on any map h1-4. only exception is something like obj midship. or i guess forged maps like onslaught. You can still make maps like priz, guardian, lockout, haven, and zealot give safe spawns every time. though you'll spawn in shitty areas and it will be easier to predict spawns on few of them.

like priz, they could make it so you spawn corner top window, plasma rifle, top plasma rifle, snipers, blue 2, red 1, and the tunnels on the bottom, os tunnel, or up top only if a spartan never has a fov to it no matter where he looks. But you could easily force bottom like that

 

 

also talking about map spawns reminded me of map details. For gods sake, can we please get maps that have hardly any nooks and crannies if at all. It's not fun to check every single corner. Things like the ledge on o3/c3 or closed fin on construct. Pretty much anywhere on guardian aka top corners, above top mid, behind blue room, above sniper tower, above s2, top green, above top gold, as well as all the stupid designs such as top mid which makes ur nades go crazy positions or get caught in the cracks in s3 ramp. On library doorframe and bottom blue on lockout; also don't like the railing on the s3 ramp side or the pit where the coils spawn. It's not as prevalent in reach/4 since you need AA's to do get to most spots but it's still there (need i mention adrift). h3 is obviously the worst at this. I also don't like invisible barriers over forge pieces so it's actually bigger than it looks.

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Sprint is the root of all evil in current Halo's. I dont think people realize that a Halo game that builds off the trilogy style is not possible when you have sprint fundamentally changing battles, map design, and lessening the importance of map control/coordination. A Sprint function is fundamentally incorrect for a R+G/cross-hair shooter like Halo.

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Sprint is the root of all evil in current Halo's. I dont think people realize that a Halo game that builds off the trilogy style is not possible when you have sprint fundamentally changing battles, map design, and lessening the importance of map control/coordination. A Sprint function is fundamentally incorrect for a R+G/cross-hair shooter like Halo.

Something something adapt.

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Something something adapt.

 

We should only adapt to something if it increases our chances of success/survival. I know your kidding, but sprint really does make classic Halo map design impossible, or a random fuck-fest that resembles that other game rather than Halo. I dont think I can take another piss poor map pool of Solace, Adrift, ect.. with Haven being the closest thing to classic Halo map design and it being voted for nearly every time in 4v4 play-lists because of it.

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We should only adapt to something if it increases our chances of success/survival. I know your kidding, but sprint really does make classic Halo map design impossible, or a random fuck-fest that resembles that other game rather than Halo. I dont think I can take another piss poor map pool of Solace, Adrift, ect.. with Haven being the closest thing to classic Halo map design and it being voted for nearly every time in 4v4 play-lists because of it.

Still fighting the good fight eh? I like.

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Regarding Sprint being root of all evil, is that to say that the concept of a sprint mechanic could never in any way be implemented in a way that adds an interesting dimension to Halo combat rather than creating undesirable gameplay scenarios?

 

Would the game be improved, for example, by a system where the act of sprinting does not lower your weapon or affect your ability to fire and land shots directly in the middle of your reticule?

 

Would a simple increase of base player speed and decrease of sprint speed be a good solution to the elogation of maps that seems inevitable in its current state?

 

Basically, is there a way to solve the problems it introduces by shaping it into a mechanic that adds something meaningful and good to Halo.

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Regarding Sprint being root of all evil, is that to say that the concept of a sprint mechanic could never in any way be implemented in a way that adds an interesting dimension to Halo combat rather than creating undesirable gameplay scenarios?

 

Would the game be improved, for example, by a system where the act of sprinting does not lower your weapon or affect your ability to fire and land shots directly in the middle of your reticule?

 

Would a simple increase of base player speed and decrease of sprint speed be a good solution to the elogation of maps that seems inevitable in its current state?

 

Basically, is there a way to solve the problems it introduces by shaping it into a mechanic that adds something meaningful and good to Halo.

I repped you before reading this. 

Sprint is the anti-spartan. 

 

Srs

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I repped you before reading this. 

Sprint is the anti-spartan. 

 

Srs

what does it mean to be anti-spartan?

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what does it mean to be anti-spartan?

 

I thought of saying anti-christ, but I thought was a bit excessive.

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I always had an idea that if there was a sprint option that increased your speed, but left your gun up and shootable, that would be pretty swell.

 

People/ADD kids can 'get back into the action quicker', and blatantly running away would be about as effective as it was in classic Halo. Doable, but of course your back would be turned and your pursuer can shoot as they chase you.

 

But then it's been forever since I got into that debate. The idea may be horrible.

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Regarding Sprint being root of all evil, is that to say that the concept of a sprint mechanic could never in any way be implemented in a way that adds an interesting dimension to Halo combat rather than creating undesirable gameplay scenarios?

 

Would the game be improved, for example, by a system where the act of sprinting does not lower your weapon or affect your ability to fire and land shots directly in the middle of your reticule?

 

Would a simple increase of base player speed and decrease of sprint speed be a good solution to the elogation of maps that seems inevitable in its current state?

 

Basically, is there a way to solve the problems it introduces by shaping it into a mechanic that adds something meaningful and good to Halo.

 

You're solution to sprint is to basically nerf it down to the point where you think it doesn't make a difference. Why not just increase base speed and remove sprint? In games like Battlefield, CoD, etc - if you are caught in a sprint, you are instantly dead to a person hard aiming. Sprint doesn't work in Halo for multiplayer. Just keep it in campaign and many btb.

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You're solution to sprint is to basically nerf it down to the point where you think it doesn't make a difference. Why not just increase base speed and remove sprint? In games like Battlefield, CoD, etc - if you are caught in a sprint, you are instantly dead to a person hard aiming. Sprint doesn't work in Halo for multiplayer. Just keep it in campaign and many btb.

those were not solutions.  those were arbitrary change factors that I threw out there as examples.

 

obviously I'm not talking about nerfing it until i doesn't make a difference.  I'm talking about implementing it in a form that adds a complementary layer to existing halo gameplay.

 

and my question was if you were asserting that doing so is completely impossible, no matter what the variant you choose.  That no-one could possibly come up with an idea that would work.

 

Is that your belief, yes or no.

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those were not solutions.  those were arbitrary change factors that I threw out there as examples.

 

obviously I'm not talking about nerfing it until i doesn't make a difference.  I'm talking about implementing it in a form that adds a complementary layer to existing halo gameplay.

 

and my question was if you were asserting that doing so is completely impossible, no matter what the variant you choose.  That no-one could possibly come up with an idea that would work.

 

Is that your belief, yes or no.

 

My honest belief is that sprint doesn't add anything to 4v4 Halo. But it certainly detracts from Halo. Tell me why you are so desperate to keep it in.

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My honest belief is that sprint doesn't add anything to 4v4 Halo. But it certainly detracts from Halo. Tell me why you are so desperate to keep it in.

I'm not particularly desperate for anything.  I was just interested in your specific opinion on the matter.

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I'm not particularly desperate for anything.  I was just interested in your specific opinion on the matter.

 

So I'll answer you question- I don't think anyone can come up with a solution that adds to the experience of Halo MP as long as the kill times remain far longer than that of other first person shooters. Now will you tell me why sprint adds to the experience of Halo multiplayer? I have asked many people this question and have never gotten a convincing answer. 

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So I'll answer you question- I don't think anyone can come up with a solution that adds to the experience of Halo MP as long as the kill times remain far longer than that of other first person shooters. Now will you tell me why sprint adds to the experience of Halo multiplayer? I have asked many people this question and have never gotten a convincing answer. 

at its most basic level sprint allows players to switch between at least two mobility states.

 

additional modifiers can turn access of the second state into a limited resource, only permit use while pressing the forward movement input, or trade off defensive capabilities when operating in the maximum mobility state.  these are not the only modifiers available to any sprint system, nor are they all required, but they are examples of ways that sprint systems can be altered to change its impact on gameplay in different ways.

 

sprint can add many things depending on its implementation, but it always centers around introducing an optional quicker level of mobility, and rewarding players who use that system optimally in combination with regular movement.

 

in a game that has only one movement mode, players don't have to consider what mode other players are in when planning their paths or momentarily losing eye-contact, and they don't have to consider when they should shift in or out of each movement mode.

 

It's similar to the difference between a game that has an ammo and/or reload system and a game in which the player has unlimited ammo and no need to reload.  less factors are being considered during gameplay due to the removal of a system, and this changes the flow of gameplay, since the player was originally working within that system to accomplish the same things as without it.

 

It is true that the most popular modern variant of sprint generally works best in games with lower kill-times than the past few halo games, due to the split-second reactions it can necessitate, caused in large part by the defensive trade-off it employs.

 

A possible but untested solution would be to remove this trade-off, which would give pursuers an edge over escapees since they could match their speed while firing, exactly like they could in the no-sprint model, as well as allowing the player to retain their ability to react in a timely manner to situations regardless of which mobility mode they are in.

 

However, this change still retains the unique gameplay implications of sprint despite being more in-line with a no-sprint game, including optimal mobility state control.

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