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Andy

Halo needs a Day 0

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I've thought for basically half my life that Halo could never die. It was hands down the best console FPS experience. As long as they kept making Halo games, I thought, Halo will go on.

 

I guess I never anticipated that the developers would stop making actual Halo games. A few short years later and here we are. The game will be largely irrelevant for the next year or so. Spare some throwback H3 tourney from MLG and maybe some mystery tourney from 343i and VG.

 

As for your points OP. The community will likely always be there. Throwing Halo 2 and 3 tournaments and getting together at LANs. The games are just too good to ever totally walk away from. It's basically just a question of whether 343i is prepared to make Halo, Halo again. The community is waiting for a true sequel to Halo 3. Better yet, there's an entire new generation of young gamers who haven't had the experience of a great Halo game.

That's at least something to hope for.

 

As for me. I guess I'll be getting an OG Xbox with some S-types. I have a feeling my 360 might be the newest console I have for a while. I'm not trying to play H1 and H2 on 360 for that long.

 

You. I like you. This is basically my thought process verbatim. 

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Even the current 'good' Halo CE community is full of self-obsessed, narcissistic, condescending pricks.

 

Holy shit I never had the guts to say this, but damn this is true.

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Holy shit I never had the guts to say this, but damn this is true.

 

I cant tell you how many times Ive played xbc with people better than me only to hear

 

WOW YOU GOT ME SPAWN KILLED LIKE FIVE TIMES KILL YOURSELF AND NEVER PLAY AGAIN

 

like, really? As offhost singles on xbc with no communication?

 

Then they complain cause no one plays xbc.

 

Go figure.

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I cant tell you how many times Ive played xbc with people better than me only to hear

 

WOW YOU GOT ME SPAWN KILLED LIKE FIVE TIMES KILL YOURSELF AND NEVER PLAY AGAIN

 

like, really? As offhost singles on xbc with no communication?

 

Then they complain cause no one plays xbc.

 

Go figure.

Sad to see that we are in such deteriorated state of  mind .

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 So true OT. After all, Halo CE/2 started out small as well with lan tourneys all over the place. And now we can actually stream them. Lets be happy with what we have. I KNOW there are so many players even at small toureys that are MUCH better than me. These are also exciting to watch and you can learn a lot from them as well.

 

Bring on streamed small lan tourneys. I dont mind and times have changed.

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I cant tell you how many times Ive played xbc with people better than me only to hear

 

WOW YOU GOT ME SPAWN KILLED LIKE FIVE TIMES KILL YOURSELF AND NEVER PLAY AGAIN

 

like, really? As offhost singles on xbc with no communication?

 

Then they complain cause no one plays xbc.

 

Go figure.

 

I really dont understand why everyone thinks Halo players are all major douchebags.

Its the internet - EVERYONE is a douchebag.

 

Why specifically halo anyway? I doubt itll take you any more than a couple games of COD to find some 12 year old telling you what he did with your mother last night.

I've followed quite a few online forums for various games and people atleast 50% of all posts are ALWAYS trolling/insults/mindless bickering. Same with the ingame chat - half of what you hear/read is bs.

The guys STAP KILLING TEH COMMUNITY talk always comes up too, and guess what it makes 0 difference because you are stuck with the demographic you have whether you want it or not.

Ofcourse it would be awesome if everyone would play nice but you cannot deal of the bad apples if you cant force them. Yea on this forum you can but how many people have been banned on xbl for shit talking?

I just dont see what makes halo in particular more prone to have people being asshats than any other game nor any sucessful game dying because of bad behavior from some people.

Heck, you have parents getting into fist fights at their kids soccer game and I dont see it killing the sport either.

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I really dont understand why everyone thinks Halo players are all major douchebags.

Its the internet - EVERYONE is a douchebag.

 

Why specifically halo anyway? I doubt itll take you any more than a couple games of COD to find some 12 year old telling you what he did with your mother last night.

I've followed quite a few online forums for various games and people atleast 50% of all posts are ALWAYS trolling/insults/mindless bickering. Same with the ingame chat - half of what you hear/read is bs.

The guys STAP KILLING TEH COMMUNITY talk always comes up too, and guess what it makes 0 difference because you are stuck with the demographic you have whether you want it or not.

Ofcourse it would be awesome if everyone would play nice but you cannot deal of the bad apples if you cant force them. Yea on this forum you can but how many people have been banned on xbl for shit talking?

I just dont see what makes halo in particular more prone to have people being asshats than any other game nor any sucessful game dying because of bad behavior from some people.

Heck, you have parents getting into fist fights at their kids soccer game and I dont see it killing the sport either.

 

Now this is pretty true, but I don't want to shoot for Call of Duty, I'd like to have something a little closer to SSBM, where people aren't so quick to be utter doucebags and they actually encourage newer players instead of telling them to 'quit the game' which is a pretty common phrase in Halo.

 

Like I said in my initial post, it's not 100% our fault. We got given a few crappy games and there was only so much we could do about that. But we can be more welcoming to new people and people who might have been around for a while but be less-skilled.

 

Yes everyone online is a dick, but when you have a crappy game that fewer people want to play, not being that way becomes exponentially more important.

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I've been saying for a while now that the Halo community needs to pool together for a while and throw an event dedicated for Halo fans. There would be a form of halo there for everyone, all we need is a couple of people to step up to the plate and start organizing. Right now you guys have gandhi who is looking to make the first step. That's great because we do sorta need a face to get behind that we can trust, but I would hate for it to turn into another clique based group that limits itself instead of welcoming all members of the community.

 

 

So now I see more and more of you guys saying the same thing. The community needs to step up. So do it. I understand not everyone can put up prize money, but what else can the community do?

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Here's why the Halo community are assholes and other communities aren't:

 

It's a team game, and it's primarily played online, and at the height of its popularity you had a number next to your name that determined your worth.

 

Think of ANY team game, and compare the sportsmanship to ANY 1v1 game. The 1v1 game will always have better sportsmanship, because there is no "Us VS Them" mentality. There's no mob mentality. If you're an asshole in a 1v1 competition, you and you alone will face the repercussions of that. In team games you can hide behind your teammates. In Smash and SC, your only interaction with other players is as opponents, and so in order to have a relationship with fellow players , you had to be a respectful opponent. In Halo you can find your team and just say fuck everyone else. It happens a lot in sports too. I played football and I wrestled in high school, and I can tell you the sportsmanship from one to the next was like night and day. Opponents in football were like hated enemies, where as in wrestling they were usually respected adversaries, and after our matches it wasn't all that uncommon to talk to your opponents and shoot the shit. It's just the nature of team games.

 

Then you have the online aspect. Anonymity is a bitch. It brings out the worst in people. In Smash, if you want to play, you have a social obligation to fufill, because you have to be in the same room as your opponent. Online, you can say whatever you want and chances are you'll never see them again. In one, you're making new friends, and in the other you're burning bridges left and right.

 

Then you have the rank. Back in H2 and H3, your worth was almost entirely dependent on your rank. "Shut up kid, you can't even get a 50." You could dismiss someone's opinion entirely if they had a "Garbage Bird".

 

I also think that Halo's (and now CoD's) mainstream appeal made it so more douchebags played it. Games like WoW, LoL, Starcraft, and most fantasy games tend to draw a, for lack of a better word, nerdier crowd. Well, most nerds are actually pretty nice guys, whereas a lot of kids that think they're hot shit at school and play whatever is socially acceptable are complete dickheads. This also explains why Gears of War, with its heavily urban community, got into a lot of fights at events.

 

There's also something to be said for sitting side by side with your opponent during gameplay. I feel like it fosters respect much more than sitting across from your opponent, playing on a different screen.

 

Halo has a lot of things working against it, but this downtime in popularity could be just what we need to turn our attitude as a community around. A lot of our pros are complete tools as human beings. I say let them move on. Lets put some effort into playing with each other. Lets organize LANs and local tournaments, meet each other in person, and have positive interactions with one another. Our game isn't big enough to do it any other way and still have it be played.

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The halo community are spoiled brats thats it. neg if you want its the truth.

but you are in the h....nvm

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I've been in the Halo community from the original Day 0, and this guy knows what hes talking about.

 

Our community is full of entitled, lazy, sometimes outright assholeish brats. The advantage halo 1 and SSBM have is that theyre not XBL-capable. People had to organize and meet human beings and make friends to play competitively. XBL has killed that social aspect. It creates a bunch of socially inept ******s who find no greater joy than screaming rape and other various profanities at the people they just killed or telling everyone in the post game lobby how much they suck. There was no sense of camaraderie in our game. Halo is plagued by this. Even the current 'good' Halo CE community is full of self-obsessed, narcissistic, condescending pricks. The closest thing to camaraderie we have is the casual community, but even most of them hate the competitive community cause we can be such jerks. Even in game! Do you realize you are pushing people out of the halo community when you match bad people, get 4 caps and then just stat and spawn kill for 8 minutes straight? Stop being dickheads, finish the game. You make people want to put CoD in their xboxes just as much as AGL or whoever.

 

There was massive hotel vandalism at a few MLG H2 and H3 events. The complaining about free VoD was absolutely UNREAL; I did tech support for MLG for a very long time. People stole things at MLG events and sometimes local lans. I guess I'm sorry for not expecting children to act like children but god damn, people. MLG supported Halo way past the point that it was good for their business, and when the breaking point finally came, a LOT of you were jerks about it. Sundance and Clap did nothing but bend over backwards for you guys and put up with a LOT of BS from you for 10 years and when they were forced to put an end to it, a lot of you spat on them for it.

 

You add on top of all of that a developer who can't figure out what Halo is (there are at least three very different games in the Halo franchise) and you further segment and compartmentalize a community that already doesn't know how to get along and band together. We all love some aspect of these games, but we can never and will never have the unity of the smash community because they all love exactly the same thing. We each love different Halo games and just bicker amongst ourselves as to what's best for us. Maybe if we just tried to start being better PEOPLE to each other both on XBL and in other avenues, maybe we could pull out of this downward spiral just a little bit.

 

Our community...sucks. And now it's finally gotten to the point of no return. I can't say I'm surprised, but I'll tell you one thing - it's not 100% our fault. It's mostly our fault, but not all of it.

 

Everything you said is right besides the "mostly our fault" part. That's just BS. It's not based in reality nor do you have any evidence for it. People naturally want to blame others but we all know it was just the shitty games that destroyed Halo. The melee community isn't a bunch of saints, their game just puts the onus on the individual and it's a lot easier to organize tournaments and keep the game alive that way. It's apples to oranges. I agree with you that the community is a bunch of addyed up teenie boppers but different 'direction' bungie and 343i took Halo is what killed the game. 

 

Who also 'spat on sundance'? I mean really, of course there were people who weren't happy about it but generally everyone seemed to know that Halo wasn't making any money and it was just a business decision. Largely the competitive community grew up if you ask me. Most hardcore halo guys are between 20-30 now and know the situation sucks but don't have the time or resources to organize events. That isn't their fault, that's just reality of being a 20 something trying to make it through school or get a good job. 

 

What exactly are you wanting the community to do..?

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Everything you said is right besides the "mostly our fault" part. That's just BS. It's not based in reality nor do you have any evidence for it. People naturally want to blame others but we all know it was just the shitty games that destroyed Halo. The melee community isn't a bunch of saints, their game just puts the onus on the individual and it's a lot easier to organize tournaments and keep the game alive that way. It's apples to oranges. I agree with you that the community is a bunch of addyed up teenie boppers but different 'direction' bungie and 343i took Halo is what killed the game. 

 

I can't really argue with any great evidences, true. I just  am going on what I've seen. Bad games did a number on halo but we didnt help because we are a segmented fan base who all like different things. We just aren't nice most of the time, esp to new people. 

 

 

Who also 'spat on sundance'? I mean really, of course there were people who weren't happy about it but generally everyone seemed to know that Halo wasn't making any money and it was just a business decision. Largely the competitive community grew up if you ask me. Most hardcore halo guys are between 20-30 now and know the situation sucks but don't have the time or resources to organize events. That isn't their fault, that's just reality of being a 20 something trying to make it through school or get a good job. 

 

I was working for MLG when they dropped it. The forums were a mess and there were a lot of assholes on twitter. It may have been a vocal minority, but they were assholes about it. "betrayed halo fans" etc

 

What exactly are you wanting the community to do..?

 

Be nice. Especially to new people.

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lol the last thing I will ever expect the Halo community overall is to be nice to new people

 

I think what Hardway said articulates why they're assholes and whatnot

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Everything you said is right besides the "mostly our fault" part. That's just BS. It's not based in reality nor do you have any evidence for it. People naturally want to blame others but we all know it was just the shitty games that destroyed Halo. The melee community isn't a bunch of saints, their game just puts the onus on the individual and it's a lot easier to organize tournaments and keep the game alive that way. It's apples to oranges. I agree with you that the community is a bunch of addyed up teenie boppers but different 'direction' bungie and 343i took Halo is what killed the game.

 

I can't really argue with any great evidences, true. I just am going on what I've seen. Bad games did a number on halo but we didnt help because we are a segmented fan base who all like different things. We just aren't nice most of the time, esp to new people.

 

 

Who also 'spat on sundance'? I mean really, of course there were people who weren't happy about it but generally everyone seemed to know that Halo wasn't making any money and it was just a business decision. Largely the competitive community grew up if you ask me. Most hardcore halo guys are between 20-30 now and know the situation sucks but don't have the time or resources to organize events. That isn't their fault, that's just reality of being a 20 something trying to make it through school or get a good job.

 

I was working for MLG when they dropped it. The forums were a mess and there were a lot of assholes on twitter. It may have been a vocal minority, but they were assholes about it. "betrayed halo fans" etc

 

What exactly are you wanting the community to do..?

 

Be nice. Especially to new people.

Us not helping? Would us being extremely nice have somehow changed the gameplay and removal of ranks decisions that bungie and then 343 made? ..No, of course not. We weren't a thought, which is neither here not there. Those decisions were made because they thought it would get them the most cash. Now I think that's where they should listen to us. We know the game better than they do and could directly cause more DLC sales by more people playing the game and future halo sales. But that is beside the point of this conversation which places blame on the community which just isn't true. Of course we should be more like the smash community but it's easier to build tournaments around 1v1's and the mystique of great smash players is something that halo hasn't had since 2 and ce so I'm just not sure the love is still there for organizing a grass roots h3 community because we don't even like that game that much. So we're left with a tiny minority to build communities around games that haven't been played heavily in many years. That's a tall task that the community just isn't up for. Gandhi's tournament may not work out because there's just not that much in it for anyone outside of the top few teams and everyone else is still playing h3, a game they don't exactly love. People LOVE ssbm and ce, h2. Well ce and h2 have been gone for many years now and it's not that we need a "day 0." We just need a good game and if that happens we need to be an incredibly gracious community and try to build halo as much as possible from there. If the likely scenario that h5 sucks comes to fruition, then our fun hobby is mostly dead.

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If the likely scenario that h5 sucks comes to fruition, then our fun hobby is mostly dead.

Here's where I take issue with your perspective...  You are suggesting that we are at the mercy of the quality of the most recent version of Halo.  While this is the case if you have a dysfunctional community, it's not necessary to be dependent upon the developer.

 

I think everyone on this forum would agree that there is at least one great Halo game - most people would probably agree that there is more than one.  I don't think a very high percentage would say that the most recent iteration qualifies as 'great'.

If we have a community that acts like an actual community (working in cooperation to help each other survive and be happy), then we are no longer dependent upon the quality of current/future games.  There is no reason why the community can't survive (perhaps even thrive) independent of the recently released versions of Halo.  Halo CE and Halo 2 don't need to be gone.

 

In other words, what's missing is NOT high quality Halo games.  What's missing is a high quality community.  Of course, having both a great new Halo game and a real community is the ideal situation.  At this point though, I don't think it's realistic to expect to get a new Halo game that most of us would consider 'great'.  Perhaps it's not realistic to expect the community to change either, but it's basically our only hope right now.

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Here's where I take issue with your perspective...  You are suggesting that we are at the mercy of the quality of the most recent version of Halo.  While this is the case if you have a dysfunctional community, it's not necessary to be dependent upon the developer.

 

I think everyone on this forum would agree that there is at least one great Halo game - most people would probably agree that there is more than one.  I don't think a very high percentage would say that the most recent iteration qualifies as 'great'.

If we have a community that acts like an actual community (working in cooperation to help each other survive and be happy), then we are no longer dependent upon the quality of current/future games.  There is no reason why the community can't survive (perhaps even thrive) independent of the recently released versions of Halo.  Halo CE and Halo 2 don't need to be gone.

 

In other words, what's missing is NOT high quality Halo games.  What's missing is a high quality community.  Of course, having both a great new Halo game and a real community is the ideal situation.  At this point though, I don't think it's realistic to expect to get a new Halo game that most of us would consider 'great'.  Perhaps it's not realistic to expect the community to change either, but it's basically our only hope right now.

 

I'm not saying that wouldn't be nice...but it's not going to happen. It's been too long, most of the kids on this forum started with Halo 3..Every game is different and right now with the history Halo has we ARE wholly dependent on the developer. 

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Here's where I take issue with your perspective...  You are suggesting that we are at the mercy of the quality of the most recent version of Halo.  While this is the case if you have a dysfunctional community, it's not necessary to be dependent upon the developer.

 

I think everyone on this forum would agree that there is at least one great Halo game - most people would probably agree that there is more than one.  I don't think a very high percentage would say that the most recent iteration qualifies as 'great'.

If we have a community that acts like an actual community (working in cooperation to help each other survive and be happy), then we are no longer dependent upon the quality of current/future games.  There is no reason why the community can't survive (perhaps even thrive) independent of the recently released versions of Halo.  Halo CE and Halo 2 don't need to be gone.

 

In other words, what's missing is NOT high quality Halo games.  What's missing is a high quality community.  Of course, having both a great new Halo game and a real community is the ideal situation.  At this point though, I don't think it's realistic to expect to get a new Halo game that most of us would consider 'great'.  Perhaps it's not realistic to expect the community to change either, but it's basically our only hope right now.

So, what you're saying is forget about H5 if it's trash, just go back to CE/H2? That's not feasible and you know it. Neither games have XBL functionality, the vast minority of the Halo community use XBC, not to mention the fact it's impossible for people around the world to play, in fact, I hear complaints about Ping issues from one side of NA to the other.

 

The majority of play time on Halo games is done Online these days, sure, for an event it would be nice to see CE or H2 but you replied to a post stating "our fun hobby is mostly dead", implying hobby being the thing we do at home on XBL. If H5 absolutely blows like H4, we, as a community have two choices, die out and go play a new franchise or play H3/Reach.

 

We could have the best Community in the World, but it still wouldn't bring CE or H2 to XBL.

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So, what you're saying is forget about H5 if it's trash, just go back to CE/H2? That's not feasible and you know it. Neither games have XBL functionality, the vast minority of the Halo community use XBC, not to mention the fact it's impossible for people around the world to play, in fact, I hear complaints about Ping issues from one side of NA to the other.

 

The majority of play time on Halo games is done Online these days, sure, for an event it would be nice to see CE or H2 but you replied to a post stating "our fun hobby is mostly dead", implying hobby being the thing we do at home on XBL. If H5 absolutely blows like H4, we, as a community have two choices, die out and go play a new franchise or play H3/Reach.

 

We could have the best Community in the World, but it still wouldn't bring CE or H2 to XBL.

Thank you. This pervasive argument within the community that "it's the community's fault and we just need to organize" is just wrong and the ladder won't happen. We all know this, people just keep regurgitating the same bs over and over again.

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We could have the best Community in the World, but it still wouldn't bring CE or H2 to XBL.

I mostly agree with you guys regarding the likelihood of a resurgence for those games.  I guess I'm just so pessimistic about the quality of future Halo games that I actually think there is a better chance of survival by going back to a good game.  I've been around gaming long enough to know that developers are not going to go back to something that's worked in the past, they're going to continue to push the envelope.  And regardless of what happens with future Halo games, it's always going to be better to be friendly and cooperative with each other.

We have essentially no control over how Halo 5 turns out.  We have total control over how we interact with other people.  It's almost as if we're arguing over whether it's worth making the effort to change the things we have control over, rather than doing nothing at all.  To me, it's a pretty easy choice.

 

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I mostly agree with you guys regarding the likelihood of a resurgence for those games.  I guess I'm just so pessimistic about the quality of future Halo games that I actually think there is a better chance of survival by going back to a good game.  I've been around gaming long enough to know that developers are not going to go back to something that's worked in the past, they're going to continue to push the envelope.  And regardless of what happens with future Halo games, it's always going to be better to be friendly and cooperative with each other.

We have essentially no control over how Halo 5 turns out.  We have total control over how we interact with other people.  It's almost as if we're arguing over whether it's worth making the effort to change the things we have control over, rather than doing nothing at all.  To me, it's a pretty easy choice.

There's no chance of surviving with CE/H2. I don't want to be a debbie downer but if Halo 5 is another Halo 4, Halo is literally dead. There is nothing that we can do. No one will want to play H3/Reach, CE and H2 have small XBC communities but no XBL functionality and we all know that H4 isn't an option either. It's do or die for Halo 5.

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It's all a matter of perspective.  If CE or Halo 2 could have a few 16 team, well publicized events per year, I would consider that fairly successful.  If people are expecting to have hundreds of thousands of people playing a game, and events with almost 200 teams like the old days, they're just not being realistic. 

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but you are in the h....nvm

yes and one time i was a spoiled brat... but i realized how lucky we were off the top and how little we did to support ourselves.

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It's all a matter of perspective.  If CE or Halo 2 could have a few 16 team, well publicized events per year, I would consider that fairly successful.  If people are expecting to have hundreds of thousands of people playing a game, and events with almost 200 teams like the old days, they're just not being realistic. 

We were talking about gaming Halo in general (at home, with friends, as a hobby etc). It just can't happen. If you don't even have XBL capability for the game, you aren't going to have a successful LAN scene.

 

If there's enough promotion and money to keep people interested, I don't see why we couldn't pull together a few 16 team events each year but sadly not many people want to gamble their money with such a small Halo community. 

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