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MetaNigh7

H4->H3: A Casual Perspective

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I refer AA's and No Descope as add ons

I purely meant core game mechanics - hit scan BR/4 shot

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I refer AA's and No Descope as add ons

I purely meant core game mechanics - hit scan BR/4 shot

Descope is part of the core game... it changes how the game is played hugely, AA's, too, because you can spawn with them

 

Equipment on the other hand from H3 would be viewed as an add on but not AA's. 

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man Sam you're just shutting me down today aren't you :P

 

touché sir, touché

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man Sam you're just shutting me down today aren't you :P

 

touché sir, touché

Nothing personal. ;)

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You know Halo has gotten bad when:

This gets -14, when back in the day, it would have gotten +14. This is an absolute well known fact that H3 is painful online. Dont go against the H3 circle jerk!

 

 

We've been shit on so hard by Reach and H4 that a 6 year old game, and IMO the worst of the first 3, is an amazing experience. Dropping the flag!? GAME OF THE YEAR. If H3 is so great, why didn't this happen for the first year of Reach? Its because were seriously desperate to play a real Halo game.

Because in Reach, your guns didn't aim on their own, you didn't have stupid perks, you couldn't see through walls, Arena had a lot of people (at least for the first few months) searching in it = competitive matches, and even though the maps weren't all that great, Forge was phenomenal and the maps had a reasonable size. The netcode was a significant improvement, the game didn't feel like a beta at launch. The custom games options allowed for A LOT of things.

 

And for the record, putting up with Reach led us to having an amazing game when the TU came around. It took a bit too long, but was amazing nonetheless. TU / NBNS Reach with a Halo 3-esque Matchmaking and progression system (ranked / social + EXP for winning) would have been remembered as one of the best Halo games of all time. People underestimate how much of an incentive it is to grind the game, and get on every weekend for that double EXP.

 

Halo 4 will never provide ANY of that. The progression system was beat like 1 month into the release. The "ranks" mean nothing. As said countless times by 343. Hardware limitations, can't edit the code because the game was rushed and Bungie is too smart. I wonder what will make it so different for their next game. Let's hope the new console does.

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Unpopular opinion here, but the fact that my gun actually works and I can defend myself at all ranges makes casual Halo 4 more fun to me than casual Halo 3. The giant melee hitboxes and the 4/5/6/???-shot-kill primary rifle were not fun. Yes I had a 50 in h3. Yes I've played it on LAN. I still think it was not a fun game.

 

Just one opinion from someone who's played 2000+ multiplayer matches of every single Halo game.

While I do see how the H3 BR is hard to use at range, there's nothing "impossible" or not working about it at range. Sure more often than not, the host will rape you if it's yellow bar, oversea or coast to coast, but it's not that hard to aim or connect shoots with proper practice (AKA not straight coming back from H4 where the game aims for you).

 

The problem with H4 is that every single weapon is a bit too accurate / easy to hit with. You can defend yourself at all ranges because there's no recovery shot skill gap. You just scope in and hit someone who's shooting from afar. If they have a sniper, you're dead. If they have the first shot and don't suck, you're dead. If they're sprinting around and have no idea where to predict they will come from, you're dead.

 

That's not a shooting skill gap, that's just abusing the element of surprise. Reach did it right because it kept the recovery shot skill gap, and the DMR was a very punishing weapon to miss with.

 

And for what it's worth, I've played tens of thousands of Halo 3 games, w/ 50s in all the default playlists and some double EXP weekends despite having a shit connection. Around 2k Reach Arena, 3k Reach MLG with a dominant team (see below -- I'll always regret not attending events, we would beat pros on the reg) and around 4k Halo 4 as well. I've played a lot of everything online except Halo 2.

 

H3 is the ONLY game that's motivating to grind. For the past week, I've been going at it in MLG on my newer H3 acc, and it's so motivating to keep grinding even with bad randoms.

 

b961aa484d337a68ca14e07d7801ddc9.png

If I had to pick a game, it would be NBNS Reach. But the lack of proper ranks does the MLG playlist no good. Far too often, the matches would be clueless people and awful practice.

 

Just for a counter-point here....

 

I have a lot of actually-casual halo friends. There are at least three of them that think ranks are stupid and shouldnt be in the game. Many casual people think it makes people care too much and talk trash and lord it over people who are not as highly ranked. They just want to play.

 

Just saying.

 

And your second point is personally, a terrible, terrible thing. But that's just me.

Consider the following:

 

If you don't like ranks, or never ever had the desire to prove to others how you do compared to them in terms of skill, then no one is forcing you to grind your high skill to the limit. Ranked is just somewhere that competitive people can go to find the competition and improve, or just match someone around your skill level.

 

While it doesn't mean you will have competitive matches all the time, it does mean that in theory, you will find somewhere around your skill level, which is good, even for someone bad.

 

Meanwhile, if you match all kinds of people at random, sometimes you will get a full team of stat whores and extreme tryhards in BTB facing a bunch of people just wanting to have a good time. The casual will get obliterated because the tryhards don't have anywhere else to go due to the lack of ranked / competitive modes.

P.S. I realize it may sound like I'm trying to shut *you* down, and I'm sorry if it seems that way, but your posts were bringing up some valid points.

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bold.


 



While I do see how the H3 BR is hard to use at range, there's nothing "impossible" or not working about it at range. Sure more often than not, the host will rape you if it's yellow bar, oversea or coast to coast, but it's not that hard to aim or connect shoots with proper practice (AKA not straight coming back from H4 where the game aims for you).

Yeah I know, but (at the risk of using a double negative here) there's a not-inconsequential amount of luck involved in fights past a certain range. I'd rather not link to that same silly video I made of a perfectly aimed no the head, on lan, nine shot kill across cold storage. It does happen. It matters and it makes me hate it.

The problem with H4 is that every single weapon is a bit too accurate / easy to hit with. You can defend yourself at all ranges because there's no recovery shot skill gap. You just scope in and hit someone who's shooting from afar. If they have a sniper, you're dead. If they have the first shot and don't suck, you're dead. If they're sprinting around and have no idea where to predict they will come from, you're dead.

Agreed. But if I want to shoot at the guy top mid in Ragnarok, I have a LR that works. I have literally no option in h3. Some people hate that; I'm not one of them. I'll take the h4 situation personally even though the game is so ******edly easy. At least it's easy for me too and I can still win if they miss any shots.
That's not a shooting skill gap, that's just abusing the element of surprise. Reach did it right because it kept the recovery shot skill gap, and the DMR was a very punishing weapon to miss with.

Agreed.
And for what it's worth, I've played tens of thousands of Halo 3 games, w/ 50s in all the default playlists and some double EXP weekends despite having a shit connection. Around 2k Reach Arena, 3k Reach MLG with a dominant team (see below -- I'll always regret not attending events, we would beat pros on the reg) and around 4k Halo 4 as well. I've played a lot of everything online except Halo 2.

I've played fewer game of Halo 3 than any other Halo. I think my final total was 1700 on my main tag and like 200 on another. I know how good you are at halo, there's no need to convince me. I've argued that people like you, who know how to abuse matchmaking gametypes as well as more balanced ones are the ideal testers for the next Halo game. If I could give you a job doing QA for halo 5 right now, I would. That said you probably would love h1 if you got to play it on lan for a few days/weeks with players willing to teach. The opportunities and options available to you are nearly endless in so many situations. You can skill your way out of nearly any situation, and think your way out of just as many.
H3 is the ONLY game that's motivating to grind. For the past week, I've been going at it in MLG on my newer H3 acc, and it's so motivating to keep grinding even with bad randoms.

Ranks are a great motivator. I love them too. However, I won 20 games in a row of SWAT in h3 and didn't go up a single level. I was playing with chroniclies back in the day. It was incredibly stupid.
b961aa484d337a68ca14e07d7801ddc9.png


impressive.
If I had to pick a game, it would be NBNS Reach. But the lack of proper ranks does the MLG playlist no good. Far too often, the matches would be clueless people and awful practice.

Sure. I agree.


Consider the following:

If you don't like ranks, or never ever had the desire to prove to others how you do compared to them in terms of skill, then no one is forcing you to grind your high skill to the limit. Ranked is just somewhere that competitive people can go to find the competition and improve, or just match someone around your skill level.

While it doesn't mean you will have competitive matches all the time, it does mean that in theory, you will find somewhere around your skill level, which is good, even for someone bad.

Meanwhile, if you match all kinds of people at random, sometimes you will get a full team of stat whores and extreme tryhards in BTB facing a bunch of people just wanting to have a good time. The casual will get obliterated because the tryhards don't have anywhere else to go due to the lack of ranked / competitive modes.

I agree completely. The only reason I mentioned it is because the guy was talking about how ranks are what casuals want. They want the results of good matchmaking sure, but not all of them want visible ranks. I know a few who specifically don't. I argue with them too, but I'm just saying.

P.S. I realize it may sound like I'm trying to shut *you* down, and I'm sorry if it seems that way, but your posts were bringing up some valid points.

And I don't think that's what you were tryin to do. You just come from a differnet perspective. You play with great players. Games that require tons of teamwork, you're STILL amazing at because no one on your team misses. They all time weapons. They all know how to abuse requisition and camo and whatever. When I have to play against four of you guys and I'm teaming with my wife and two random 30-somethings that I've known for 10 years who still sorta suck at Halo, no matter how good my aim or smarts are, I have no chance. And I def dont think I have more of a chance in Halo 3. I have to get close and there's always two of you.

There is more than just my h1 background that makes me appreciate games where I can be deadly quickly and insert individual talent in to the equation. The fact is, I think there is more opportunity from me to do that in the dumbed down version of halo that h4 presents me than I do in the dumbed down version that h3 presents me. Do I think its overall a better game? Not really. But I like the speed, accuracy and range of the guns MUCH more. When you play with a team of good kids who call out and don't miss, none of that really matters as much to you. H3 players think getting picked off long range is annoying. I think they're stupid for bunny-hopping around the top of the map like they're invincible.


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Wow...100 percent win rate in Anniversary and 92 percent in MLG? Guys like you are why 343 is scared to bring back classic Halo gameplay lmao.

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the good thing about Halo 4......its netcode? 

....

i really can't think of anything else.

Megaloscript was the saving grace of both Reach and Halo 4(to a lesser extent 4).

 

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And I don't think that's what you were tryin to do. You just come from a differnet perspective. You play with great players. Games that require tons of teamwork, you're STILL amazing at because no one on your team misses. They all time weapons. They all know how to abuse requisition and camo and whatever. When I have to play against four of you guys and I'm teaming with my wife and two random 30-somethings that I've known for 10 years who still sorta suck at Halo, no matter how good my aim or smarts are, I have no chance. And I def dont think I have more of a chance in Halo 3. I have to get close and there's always two of you.

 

There is more than just my h1 background that makes me appreciate games where I can be deadly quickly and insert individual talent in to the equation. The fact is, I think there is more opportunity from me to do that in the dumbed down version of halo that h4 presents me than I do in the dumbed down version that h3 presents me. Do I think its overall a better game? Not really. But I like the speed, accuracy and range of the guns MUCH more. When you play with a team of good kids who call out and don't miss, none of that really matters as much to you. H3 players think getting picked off long range is annoying. I think they're stupid for bunny-hopping around the top of the map like they're invincible.

As an unfortunate matter of fact, more often than not, when I would try hard in Halo 4 MM, we had to deliberately handicap ourselves in order to keep the game somewhat fun, challenging and/or enjoyable. Stuff like NOT using camo or PV because it made it far too easy not to die or predict someone, or to just not bring games to a boring ass stalemate because it makes opponents far too cautious of rushing out.

 

I know for the longest time, I didn't even use an AA in my loadout and it made no difference for the most part. It's just the fact that the individual skill gap in Halo 4 was just thrown out of the window (even more than H3), and it's even more linear aggression because of how easy it is to shoot. You will NEVER outshoot two top players in Halo 4. The base movement is not powerful enough to outdo the aim assists. 

 

H3 has the unfortunate issue of forcing closer battles unless you're team shooting, because it's not hard to get away from distanced BR shots. However, grenades can be used well from just about anywhere on the map. You don't get this stupid indicator which renders nades useless. And at the same time, I think it adds an extra layer to manoeuvring around the map and cover up close, and it makes strafing and jumping a much more viable option because more often than not, you're in close quarters. 

 

I'm almost sure I would love CE given the change to learn it, because I'm all in for something that widens the individual skill gap. Everything is calculated, whereas, I feel like it's the opposite with H4. It's hard to appreciate the constant chaos that it brings with sprint, being able to get hit from anywhere on the map without the slightest challenge -- let's face it, using a LR on a perfect netcode is a million times easier than using a Magnum while leading shots AND being descoped for taking damage ever will be -- and nades losing usefulness because of the indicator.

 

To me, there's just all these particular situations that lose a bunch of viable options that disappear in H4.

 

There's nothing worse than a death to a camo'd LR user even though you're good enough to kick him out of scope despite being caught off guard. If someone is BRing me from afar, I know I need to him once to gain an extra second to escape, or even turn the entire encounter around.

 

Or when you're coming from behind someone who's shooting at someone else. Do you risk walking up to him for a backsmack? Do you start shooting him and risk him turning around and dropping the HEAVENLY 4? Do you throw a nade and alert him with the indicator (which has a chance to miss if he's moving)? No, just sprint and smack him behind the head.

 

You can never challenge rockets, a railgun, a sniper, or a power weapon in general for obvious reasons. 

 

Sure, like most people, I get pissed when I see some guy just soaring through my shots in H3, hitting me in 4 despite half my bullets flickering off him. It happens more often than I wish it did. But I just can't appreciate the fact if someone goes around a corner in H4, I have no idea where he's at anymore.

 

It makes communication lose all its purpose.

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All good points. The good in h3 outweighs the bad for your average experience. It does not for mine. That's perfectly understandable in my opinion.

 

I wish I could enjoy it, I really do.

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I guess its feasible if you just run stacked parties, still really impressive gotta give the man his props  ;)

 

Its so ironic that Halo innovated things like ranks+clans on console and now it has neither. Hopefully Josh Menke and the crew can return Halo's MM to its former glory.

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I guess its feasible if you just run stacked parties, still really impressive gotta give the man his props  ;)

 

Its so ironic that Halo innovated things like ranks+clans on console and now it has neither. Hopefully Josh Menke and the crew can return Halo's MM to its former glory.

Remember when kids would sell high skill 50 accounts?

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Remember when kids would sell high skill 50 accounts?

 

Yes, and who did that really effect? People sell their WoW Characters online to other people with hundreds of hours put into them but if you still suck it doesn't matter its just a number.

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Yes, and who did that really effect? People sell their WoW Characters online to other people with hundreds of hours put into them but if you still suck it doesn't matter its just a number.

nah, I actually thought that was a testament to how much people valued the ranks in that old system.

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Kids saying Halo 4 is better casually then Halo 3, No Halo 3 casually was some of the funnest times i had on Halo, playing Infection all night too playing Social playlist 

 

HALO 3 Ranked zombies was the BEST,  ok None Ranked was fun to

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Its so ironic that Halo innovated things like ranks+clans on console and now it has neither. Hopefully Josh Menke and the crew can return Halo's MM to its former glory.

 

Halo has a lot ridding on JOSH and 2 others

 

Hope for the best

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Halo 3 is good for casuals and the competitive community. Halo 4 isn't good at all in my opinion.

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