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The Great Halo Debate Thread

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Guys, the death of Halo has nothing to do with how good the game is. It's because it has to unfortunately compete with COD, which is a giant in popular culture that Halo will never be.

 

edit:

 

to the neggers, im not saying Halo shouldn't be good. Im saying that no matter how good the game is, or how appreciated by the millions that buy it, it is going to die comapred to COD.

Die is a strong word IMO, when used in this particular scenario. Halo 3 was doing great vs CoD in its prime, and you can argue that CoD was not at its prime then, however I believe H3 (at one point) was beating TWO CoD's on the XBL Activity charts which is a pretty impressive feat. 

 

If Reach had capitalized on Halo 3's success, I say we would have been in a much better position than we are in now. Reach really wounded the Halo scene, casuals left because it wasn't fun, many players left simply because there was nothing to play for(no Ranks) and the game strayed too far from what was considered "familiar, classic Halo". 

 

 

The death of Halo has SO MUCH to do with the actual game, if Reach had improved on the faults of Halo 3, CoD may have still have been more popular anyway (seeing as core of CoD is an 'easy to pick up game that features instant gratification' (kill streaks, extremely quick kill times etc), however Halo would not be in the hole that it is now.

 

Halo 3 WAS huge amongst gamers, it was massively popular and was the pinnacle of competitive Halo (MLG viewership, teams attending wise), and it has things that CoD will never have, the unique, fun custom games, the detailed storyline for the Campaign lovers, coupled with the massive amounts of lore for those who enjoy that sort of thing (comics, mega bloks, books etc), the game that really tests your skill over a longer period of time rather than in CoD where it's 'who saw who first.'

 

We've seen the skill gap in recent Halo titles diminish, which is unfortunate, however the spark is still there, Halo still has the potential to become that unique shooter again that everyone used to love. 

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They are the same type of weapon, just optimized for two different games. I dont see how its hard to see the similarity in two precision weapons that require tracking of the enemy for consistent damage and operate efficently at the same ranges. Burst and automatic weapons both require tracking the enemy, its just the BR also has the head-shot bonus as well. 

 

The BR's skill-gap relates directly to the movement style and need for precision of that particular game, a game with a fast strafe and realistic head hit-box would fit the BR's design well as it did in H2 except the hit-boxes were too forgiving.

Quake would be awful with a BR.

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Please tell 343

I'm sure they've heard that same thing a hundred times, no point repeating what they (hopefully) already know. 

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I'm sure they've heard that same thing a hundred times, no point repeating what they (hopefully) already know.

 

True hopefully Halo 5 will be everything HALO can be.

(Mother F***ing Fingers Crossed)

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This isn't simply based in nostalgia either. I hate that pathetic line. Simply because someone like the way Halo played with the BR as the primary in the classic Halo format over the DMR does not automatically mean it is rooted in nostalgia. Believe it or not people can like things simply because they prefer the way it plays. The nostalgia argument is a fallacious one that should disappear from reasoned discussion.

 

Nostalgia is the reason we are here in the first place. 

 

Discuss the weapons on their merits and how people want the game to play rather than a tired argument that simply doesn't hold water simply because someone is championing an older weapon that you think is inferior for competitive play.

 

Please TELL me how the BR (not including post-patch H2 BR) is a much better weapon than a DMR without bloom, because im baffled by this statement,it's been proven again and again that an utility weapon with no spread and no bloom is possibly the best thing it can happen to Halo. The H2 post patch BR filled this role(due to Bullet Magnetism and Aim Assist etc etc), but no other BR has done this, this is a fact sir.

 

 

The classic Halo experience had a nice skill gap, but it wasn't inaccessible by the general populace. Now we have CoD to compete with and that game is very instant gratification oriented. You can't make Halo even more difficult to get into by increasing the skill gap beyond what it was. The game has to be accessible to the average player while still maintaining a skill gap that separates the Pro from the Am. Halo 2 and Halo 3 had this with the BR over CE with the pistol. These games had a skill gap, yet were still able to capture the general audience BECAUSE they could miss a bullet from a burst or two and still win a battle.

 

Do we really want to  a game that reward players for missing shots or making bad decisions? really.....(please refer to the solution above)

 

There is a fine line between too much skill gap and not enough. CE was in a time where there was no competition and therefore the greater skill gap was ok and most people playing the game didn't even know about the competitive scene. Those days are gone and with Bungie and 343 changing the basic formula Halo had success with we have seen a decline as they have taken the game into the realm of not being competitive enough. The answer to that issue is not, however, to go back to the CE era in terms of competitive purity. There must be a happy medium and in my opinion that is to stick with the BR as the primary weapon and to implement it more as it was in Halo 2 perhaps even speeding the kill time slightly. Do this along with the obvious removal of sprint and reintroduction of descope as well as the shrinking of maps that will come with removing sprint and maybe we will be back at a place where Halo will feel like Halo again. Maybe it won't be the level of competitive game it could be with the DMR, but it will be accessible and it will still be the most competitive console FPS out there.

 

Exactly sir, we need to go back again(or 343i does) to what made HALO successful, because even with a game with a lot of faults(Halo 3), that game was on top, a lot of people were playing it, the competitive community was growing and there were a lot o casuals. These casuals  dont care too much about deep mechanics, why ? Because as long as it says "Halo" in the title, they will buy it and they will play it, but at the same time, as CoD fans and Battlefield Fans, these casuals have GOOD expectations of their game based on previous installations of the game so they expect a similar game with that "core formula" that allowed them to play hours non-stop. This is the reason i've been saying "Appeal the competitive-hardcore community and the rest will come".

 

Just how I see it.

 

And that is fine buddy, everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as you dont  mess up with facts already established

Bold.

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At the end of the day, the "BR vs. DMR" debate (accuracy aside) will always come down to which mechanic the specific individual places emphasis on...

 

"Time on Target" or "Difficulty of Headshot"

 

It's an endless debate that honestly feels a lot like politics.

 

Thus, I've always exercised the idea of putting the Halo 2 BR AND the Halo:CE Pistol in the same game. Technically, the skill sets required and the kill times employed by both guns could make for a very interesting dynamic.

 

-Ghost

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Thus, I've always exercised the idea of putting the Halo 2 BR AND the Halo:CE Pistol in the same game. Technically, the skill sets required and the kill times employed by both guns could make for a very interesting dynamic.

 

-Ghost

 

So, would you go the loadout route like we saw with the DMR and NR in Reach, or would you simply have us spawn with both weapons?

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0% or 100% damage, versus 0%, 33%, 66%, or 100% damage.

 

Thanks that makes sense.

 

I still prefer the micro-strafing burst style gameplay, but would like it to be refined in that direction so you'd be penalized more for having bits of the reticle off the enemy and get down full shots faster.  It still wouldn't be the hit or miss, but it'd be hard enough to 4 or 5 shot for competitive play and consistent.

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Bold.

You can't leave the H2 BR out of the equation. The H2 BR perhaps with an even quicker kill time is exactly what I want out of a BR. So if you agree the H2 BR is as good a weapon as the one you are championing, then as Ghost says we are simply arguing which mechanic we prefer. I prefer the BR you the DMR and I simply feel that the majority of people are comfortable and would want to play with the BR as the main weapon of the next Halo game. Of course this is assuming the next Halo is actually Halo and not Reach before a million changes or Halo 4 that still managed to suck even with the improvements they made after release.

 

I'm not saying we need to dumb-down anything about the core mechanic of Halo to attract greater audience unless you are championing Halo: CE as your formula for success in which case you could maybe say so. I simply feel the H2 formula is where success lies for greatest reach as well as competitive balance. Obviously not just a rehash of the game, but the basic formula that made Halo 2 great is what I feel 343 should strive to recreate for the next multiplayer experience. We should be aiming for that core mechanic in my opinion.

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What about if we had a DMR/Pistol starting utility weapon that was 3 shots to the head to kill, or 2 shots to the head to break shields, but was 4 shots to the body to break shields, thus putting a great emphasis on trying for headshots over just body shooting then going for the killing headshot.

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I'm not saying we need to dumb-down anything about the core mechanic of Halo to attract greater audience unless you are championing Halo: CE as your formula for success in which case you could maybe say so. I simply feel the H2 formula is where success lies for greatest reach as well as competitive balance. 

 

We are in agreement sir.(Although I would prefer some elements of CE)

I would rather not have the Halo 2 BR aka easiest Utility weapon in the next Halo.

Why  not ? IMO it's like this, CE Pistol > ZB DMR >H2(post patch) BR > the rest.

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No one influential has ever said the CE Pistol/Magnum or Reach ZBNS DMR broke maps or affected gameplay negatively and if they have they are very wrong, it is instead the opposite they improved upon skill-gap and forced players to actually aim for successful kills. The only Battle Rifle that has ever really worked in a Halo game is the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, and yet it still had its own flaws like a massive amount of aim-assist and bullet-magnetism. The redeeming quality of the Halo 2 Battle Rifle is its Bullet Spread was very reduced after the Title Update unlike the Halo 3, 4, Battle Rifles which are no where near the level of Halo 2's Battle Rifle and its quality.

 

I myself prefer a Magnum similar to Halo CE's that requires players to focus on aiming properly for headshot to be the utility weapon, with a Rifle accompanying it within one universal load-out, that is the best route to go. A reduced spread and less/No Recoil Battle Rifle could work as the Precision Rifle that would accompany the Magnum due to the Battle Rifles ability to strip energy shields efficiently. The Magnum would be more rewarding and would always kill in 3 headshots giving it the kill-time and performance edge, and would always reward the player for pacing their shots properly which is what we should aim for with the utility weaponry.

 

Magnum>DMR in my opinion either way and if people really must have a Battle Rifle always handy for some reason even though it has some critical flaws, then simply place it within the load-out. Most people simply want a consistent, accurate, utility weapon that does either 0% or 100% damage per shot, and the Battle Rifle does not give us that it never has and it is due to it being a Burst-fire weapon instead of a Single-shot. It all depends on if you want to be rewarded for your own accuracy or possibly lose a kill because of a random unpredictable element associated with Burst-fire weapons, I will take rewarded for my accuracy over randomness anytime.

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 "BR vs. DMR"

It's an endless debate that honestly feels a lot like politics.

Hmmm maybe your not that wrong Eric...

 

Shadow :I'm Shadow the hispanic that nobody cares, here today I have news about the old political war in Halo about the BR and DMR debate that will never end forever:

 

Juanita: So we have here the BR Party explaining why they're awesome and that Br is the way to go but in the other hand the DMR Party refuses that statement by declaring that single shots are better for Halo.

Which one would you choose? You can vote now for the President of the United Halos today, choosing BR TEAM... DMR TEAM... or the one that nobody cares of mentioning and obviously is in a corner being punished because lots of people look over it... LIGHTRIGHT TEAM.

 

Shadow: If we don't vote soon, the leader of the United Nations of Halo of the 343 Nations will choose to have both, or three whatever and shutdown every single option.

Meanwhile, which one you choose? I choose Minecraft...

 

/joking

 

I'm definitely the worst news caster, thank goodness Juanita helped.

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This weapon is inherently random and is worse than the DMR?

 

Like Ghost said, burst fire and single-shot weapons both have their place in the game and offer slightly different play-styles. I doubt load-outs are going anywhere(seeing as how almost every Xbox shooter has them now) so people are going to have to learn to deal with multiple primaries.

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At the end of the day, the "BR vs. DMR" debate (accuracy aside) will always come down to which mechanic the specific individual places emphasis on...

 

"Time on Target" or "Difficulty of Headshot"

 

It's an endless debate that honestly feels a lot like politics.

 

Thus, I've always exercised the idea of putting the Halo 2 BR AND the Halo:CE Pistol in the same game. Technically, the skill sets required and the kill times employed by both guns could make for a very interesting dynamic.

 

-Ghost

Agree 100% only thing missing there is that halo 3 sniper B)

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You mean this sniper? 

 

Yeah, no thanks. 

 

That's more "Halo 3 being shitty online" than the H3 sniper. Outside of CE, Halo 3's sniper demands the most skill to use out of the entire series, and to this day remains the sole redeeming trait of that game. 

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Maybe we should discuss on things that we never discussed before, for example...

Spect Mode VS Clan Support

Spartan Ops VS Firefight VS Both

MLG VS any other

idk.. Its just feel that if we keep going with these kinda old discussion, we gonna start over Sprint vs No-Sprint and I'll fly the fuck out of here if we start that discussion again.

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Spect Mode VS Clan Support

I don't see why these two need to be compared.

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I don't see why these two need to be compared.

Meh... not my point.

 

For example: Which one should be a must, and in case we can only have one due time or resources, which one would be the most beneficial for the community/game and why? Maybe this question between Clan Support/SpectMode is kinda obvious, who knows, but we can do these with lots of features, things or elements that can benefit or not the next game or did/didn't do things correctly in previous games.

 

That type of questions, we don't have to always compare everything negatively, we can discuss and have different types of debates without being a "main issue" or "main topic" like No-Sprint vs Sprint or Br vs DMR.

 

Thread to discuss and debate, we shouldn't not waste it on topics that we've discussed and talked from months ago. imo.

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Meh... not my point.

 

For example: Which one should be a must, and in case we can only have one due time or resources, which one would be the most beneficial for the community/game and why? 

That type of questions, we don't have to always compare everything, we can discuss and have different types of debates without being a "main issue" or "main topic" like No-Sprint vs Sprint or Br vs DMR.

 

Thread to discuss and debate, we shouldn't not waste it on topics that we've discussed and talked from months ago. imo.

Without a question, spectator mode is infinitely more important than a clan system. Clans are an aesthetic thing, really. You'd only ever use them online in a Clan Battle playlist or whatever.

Spectator mode is used universally, and is downright necessary for smaller organizations to stream a good LAN.

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