Jump to content
CyReN

The Great Halo Debate Thread

Recommended Posts

Basically, Florida is a place that has jobs open in that field. Most places have no jobs, or very small time jobs. Florida has jobs, but if you really want to get in the action, then you need to move to Cali.

Texas is good as well I believe

Share this post


Link to post

I want an automatic precision rifle with minimal auto aim/magnetism. I always thought the Lancer in GoW worked well competitively as well as automatic rifles in Cod. It may just be me though.

Old post, I know, but I have something to say.

 

Automatic rifles can work well, but those in CoD are just too forgiving because of the large clip, b-mag, and ADS. So many ideas have been tainted by that infernal series.

 

Edit: I didn't realize we were talking about career paths. Don't mind me! :P

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

regarding wall jumps and such, how would you feel about a mantling/climb up ledge mechanic similar to crisis 3?  Obvious problem would be that it triggers an animation and removes use of your gun, but since we're Spartans, the animation could play out with your left hand only and leave you free to aim.

 

Things like vaulting are pointless since jumping does the same thing and doesn't lock you into an animation, but it has always bugged me to jump up against a wall so high that my ankles are above it, and then just slide back down.

 

Activated by pressing the jump button while near a ledge in the air.

Share this post


Link to post

regarding wall jumps and such, how would you feel about a mantling/climb up ledge mechanic similar to crisis 3? Obvious problem would be that it triggers an animation and removes use of your gun, but since we're Spartans, the animation could play out with your left hand only and leave you free to aim.

 

Things like vaulting are pointless since jumping does the same thing and doesn't lock you into an animation, but it has always bugged me to jump up against a wall so high that my ankles are above it, and then just slide back down.

 

Activated by pressing the jump button while near a ledge in the air.

Forge objects like the Strut, which are angled on one side, can be slid up. Run towards the angled object, run up to it so you just about chest bump it, then jump right as you make contact to "slide" up the angled object. Crouch at the top if necessary. You retain your ability to fire the entire time.

Share this post


Link to post

I knew you could slide to some extent, but I didn't know it could be used that effectively on some objects!

 

However, I am specifically thinking of entirely vertical objects and walls.

 

Do you have any ideas for a system like that, or do you think we're better off continuing to adapt the map design to compensate for our limited range of movement instead of changing movement mechanics to allow for different types of map design?

 

EDIT: vertical as in ledges at the top of a 90 degree angle object, not climbing sheer surfaces.

Share this post


Link to post

However, I am specifically thinking of entirely vertical objects and walls.

 

Do you have any ideas for a system like that, or do you think we're better off continuing to adapt the map design to compensate for our limited range of movement instead of changing movement mechanics to allow for different types of map design?

 

EDIT: vertical as in ledges at the top of a 90 degree angle object, not climbing sheer surfaces.

It is important to allow map makers to limit player movement options through map design but I think a system that combines the ability to thrust a short distance or perform a double jump could work well. The player can already run and thrust is just like a short, fast run. The player can already jump so a double jump is a natural extension of that. By making these abilities single use before recharge we avoid the effects of Sprint and Jetpack that occur because their duration is so long.

 

I personally think any mechanics that involve an involuntary animation sequence should generally be avoided. Things like the "pulling your gun up" animation after sprinting or the camera going third person while thrusting are not good for Halo gameplay.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It is important to allow map makers to limit player movement options through map design but I think a system that combines the ability to thrust a short distance or perform a double jump could work well. The player can already run and thrust is just like a short, fast run. The player can already jump so a double jump is a natural extension of that. By making these abilities single use before recharge we avoid the effects of Sprint and Jetpack that occur because their duration is so long.

 

I personally think any mechanics that involve an involuntary animation sequence should generally be avoided. Things like the "pulling your gun up" animation after sprinting or the camera going third person while thrusting are not good for Halo gameplay.

 

I was thinking of it as a partial animation where aiming control is not taken away from you, but movement is, but your idea of thrusts is a much more elegant solution.

 

I also like the idea of sprint being replaced by ground-based thrusts.  It would make more sense to allow you to keep your weapon up through that, plus it would be more tactical in general.  so upwards thrust could be double jump, and forwards thrust could be mapped to sprint.  But you can only use one of each type per charge, which resets in some amount of time.

 

It's similar to Titanfall now that I think of it, though in that case the vanilla jump is pretty much worthless from what I've seen.

 

Regarding involuntary animations, I wish they would just have a context sensitive melee animation for Assassinations that doesn't put you into third person and remove your ability to move.  Not one that involves knives, just a strike that looks more aggressive and doesn't force the attacking player to stop.

 

I'm not really a fan of going into third person outside of vehicles and I guess turrets.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know, i feel that a double-jump ability could ran into the same issue that an "always ready to deploy" jetpack creates, especially whit the high jump height of the original trilogy, with people that try to compensate their bad shot by  jumping out of the enemy possible vision every time; i'm not saying it couldn't work, but it should be limited heavily.

 

BTW, anyone else it's worried about the whole microtransaction thing into the X1 launch titles? i'm pretty sure that MS will try to include them in the next halo. 

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know, i feel that a double-jump ability could ran into the same issue that an "always ready to deploy" jetpack creates, especially whit the high jump height of the original trilogy, with people that try to compensate their bad shot by jumping out of the enemy possible vision every time; i'm not saying it couldn't work, but it should be limited heavily.

 

 

In the same way that if a player jumps during his strafe he becomes an easy target because of his, now easily predictable, trajectory when a player double jumps he now becomes an easy target due to his easily predictable trajectory. I am just moving the unpredictability level one step back. Instead of being dead in the water when you jump the first time, you are only dead in the water after the second jump.

 

In addition, this double jump is a predetermined, consistent height, so players and map designers can adjust their aim or design accordingly and predictably, as well as requiring a relatively long recharge delay after using so it won't be a part of every encounter. Adding an element of unpredictability in player movement widens the aiming skill gap because truely good players will be able to adjust their aim quickly and accurately even with these unpredictable movement abilities.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know, i feel that a double-jump ability could ran into the same issue that an "always ready to deploy" jetpack creates, especially whit the high jump height of the original trilogy, with people that try to compensate their bad shot by  jumping out of the enemy possible vision every time; i'm not saying it couldn't work, but it should be limited heavily.

 

BTW, anyone else it's worried about the whole microtransaction thing into the X1 launch titles? i'm pretty sure that MS will try to include them in the next halo. 

Eh, it's a case by case thing.  Forza has had microtransactions for a while, for example, it's not a shock they had them again, though they were a bit worse pre-changes turn 10 made.

 

If you define microtransactions as allowing players to bypass progression, I seriously doubt we'll see any of that in the next Halos if they've learned anything from how dumb all that specialization stuff got.  Hopefully the only paid things will be map packs and maybe cosmetic items. (although it would be cool if they had like one free map for each pack)

 

And yeah, what Randy said.  Instead of something you can mess up and then correct, like the jetpack or sprint, you have one shot to use it properly before waiting for cooldown.  It's basically a more skillful version of what I like about sprint, knowing when a rapid, explosive movement should be prioritized over subtle, more accurate movements.

Share this post


Link to post

If you define microtransactions as allowing players to bypass progression, I seriously doubt we'll see any of that in the next Halos if they've learned anything from how dumb all that specialization stuff got.  Hopefully the only paid things will be map packs and maybe cosmetic items. (although it would be cool if they had like one free map for each pack)

 

That's one of the things that greatly worries me, what if 343 actually wants to stop using a progressive system but MS push for it hoping to exploit it?

Share this post


Link to post

That's one of the things that greatly worries me, what if 343 actually wants to stop using a progressive system but MS push for it hoping to exploit it?

 

343i makes the decisions. Halo is pretty small fry's for microsoft and they trust they're developer. We do not trust 343i though.

Share this post


Link to post

Well #1, Halo 4 was the best selling Microsoft Studios game of all time.  They have clout, and they've proven that they can make a game that is, sales-wise, a success.

 

And then there's the fact that something like Ryse specifically allows you to buy progress in multiplayer because its multiplayer is cooperative, not competitive.  And in forza you can compete in races even if you don't instantly have the most expensive car, it's not a strictly linear progression because not every in Forza is designed to be objectively better, not to mention that after the backlash the price of buying credits and the cost of cars through in-game earnings was lowered.

 

So there's no evidence of a philosophy that every single xbox one competitive exclusive with a progression system must allow for people to buy experience points, since there's no example of that.

 

Plus there are so many other ways that they monetize the game, with books and tv shows and map packs and armor packs and weapon skins.  They have enough on their plates.

 

 

343i makes the decisions. Halo is pretty small fry's for microsoft and they trust they're developer. We do not trust 343i though.

 Halo is very important to Microsoft.  343 has freedom, but they have a large role in the Xbox team's strategy, and there is definitely SOME influence from that direction.

 

I neither trust or distrust 343.  I'm interested to see what they've learned from 4.

Share this post


Link to post

As far as microtransactions go, I expect they will exist in Halo 5 but I don't think they'll affect gameplay. Probably just skins and armour sets etc.

Share this post


Link to post

I would welcome cosmetic micro-transactions with open arms so long as they were committed to doing it right.

 

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive as an example has been completely rejuvenated in part by the introduction of weapon skins. It's implementation affected not only the active population who were motivated to play more (4 drops a week, some free skins and some crates requiring a paid 'key') but had a direct impact on the competitive community providing a source of funding for tournaments through 'e-sports crates'. This came to fruition last weekend pumping $140,000 back into Dreamhack Winters prize purse to create the first CSGO 'major'. Further incentive to support the tournament came with opportunities to acquire signature free cases / skins just by watching the games through the official twitch streams or in game - needless to say the event smashed every record CSGO had set up until that point.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Plus there are so many other ways that they monetize the game, with books and tv shows and map packs and armor packs and weapon skins.  They have enough on their plates.

This is M$ we're talking about. There's no end point. They're greedy and they want all the money they can get. If they believe that adding microtransactions into a progression system will help make them more money then they'll most likely do it. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

This is M$ we're talking about. There's no end point. They're greedy and they want all the money they can get. If they believe that adding microtransactions into a progression system will help make them more money then they'll most likely do it. 

Contrary to popular belief, there are people at Microsoft whose job is to balance profit with the game actually being good.  343 is already giving them plenty of other revenue streams, there's no reason they would force them to compromise their progression system simply to fulfill a stereotype of an evil corporation.

 

If you push too hard, Devs just leave.  There are plenty of companies that would be eager to offer most of the people at 343 jobs.

 

If we see microtransactions that allow you to break competitive progression, maybe it will have been suggested by someone from microsoft, but 343 will have been the ones who made the ultimate decision.

Share this post


Link to post

Contrary to popular belief, there are people at Microsoft whose job is to balance profit with the game actually being good.  343 is already giving them plenty of other revenue streams, there's no reason they would force them to compromise their progression system simply to fulfill a stereotype of an evil corporation.

 

If you push too hard, Devs just leave.  There are plenty of companies that would be eager to offer most of the people at 343 jobs.

 

If we see microtransactions that allow you to break competitive progression, maybe it will have been suggested by someone from microsoft, but 343 will have been the ones who made the ultimate decision.

343 are M$. M$ built the company for the sole purpose of making Halo (that's why H4 sucked because most of them didn't have any experience or a lot with Halo). 343 can't do shit about it, they are owned by M$. If a certain staff member at 343 doesn't like it, he can leave, but M$ will just replace him without a second glance. 

 

If something like this does happen, M$ will most likely give them the guidelines of what they want the microtransactions to be, 343 just have to implement what exactly they'd sell. It would be a dual effort, but M$ are the ones who would come up with the idea. 

Share this post


Link to post

Not talking about 343 leaving MS, but employees of 343 leaving.

 

And that's pretty much what I said.  They're already selling game content anyways.  If they decide to sell xp or credits, that will be because they as their own entity decided to incorporate that into the design.

 

But we don't know the specifics on if Microsoft has a specific blanket initiative for things like that on all games going forward, or what discussions are or are not going on between 343 and microsoft higher-ups.

Share this post


Link to post

With the large backlash of the Forza 5 microtransactions, I can see MS not continuing that behavior. They have been on a 180 streak.

Share this post


Link to post

Not talking about 343 leaving MS, but employees of 343 leaving.

 

And that's pretty much what I said.  They're already selling game content anyways.  If they decide to sell xp or credits, that will be because they as their own entity decided to incorporate that into the design.

 

But we don't know the specifics on if Microsoft has a specific blanket initiative for things like that on all games going forward, or what discussions are or are not going on between 343 and microsoft higher-ups.

I responded to your point about employees leaving. I said M$ will just replace them without a second glance. 

Share this post


Link to post

I responded to your point about employees leaving. I said M$ will just replace them without a second glance. 

Ah, sorry, I misread.  Of course it won't CRIPPLE microsoft, but no publisher actually wants to be seen as bad employers, or have to deal with replacing team members and restructuring and the project delays associated with that.  They can't just be completely horrible to them and not have any negative impact.

 

But of course, what you're mainly saying is that anything could happen, and I totally agree.

Share this post


Link to post

This is M$ we're talking about. There's no end point. They're greedy and they want all the money they can get. If they believe that adding microtransactions into a progression system will help make them more money then they'll most likely do it. 

I can't help but laugh at all this Microsoft talk without thinking about the recent South Park episodes

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.