Jump to content
Vetoed

Addressing Some Halo 3 Concerns / Population Peak

Recommended Posts

I think a lot of people are skeptical about bringing Halo 3 back. Some claim that most people have the game by now, and that it doesn't matter whether it becomes available for free to download or not, it's bad online since it doesn't have hitscan and has an average netcode, or that it'll suck because the playlists aren't updated. I think it's untrue. Let's face it.




First off, it's surprising to think that most people still have their Halo 3 discs right now. It's been YEARS, a lot of people moved, and lost stuff, some stopped gaming as a whole, got rid of their consoles and games (Halo 3 included) but started gaming again for the new stuff, like GTA or CoD (let's not pretend H4 too, because it's what made most of people REALLY quit) and have a console, but not the game.

Sure if you wanted to get back into Halo 3, you could just go at the store or online to grab a $10 disc, but you're not gonna go out of your way to buy a game with a small population.

So that's one factor behind the current population being so low right now. It just kept decreasing as matches became harder and harder to get, and even the most patient people gave up. No one went out of their way to spend for that.




As for hitscan / leading your shots, it's not that hard even on slower connections. You have to realize that back then, the average internet speed was MUCH slower and the host was bad A LOT more often and with unbelievable ping. It will still be better than it was back then. Also the netcode has been improved a whole lot since Reach, and Halo 4 has built upon that.

The person hosting will have an advantage at shooting, but someone who bothers getting used to being off-host instead of frustrated will have a good shot. At first it's harder, but it doesn't make H3 bad. It's all practice. Same with aiming. The skill gap is a whole lot higher because there are less aim assists, so it allows you to get super aggressive as long as your movement and aiming is good. At the same time, it also makes aiming much harder keep that in mind instead of thinking your stuff just doesn't register. 




Playlists not being updated isn't a big deal at all. Back then, Bungie had selected the playlists based on MANY hours and compiled population data. The very best which would also leave a precise variant of everything were left when Reach came out. We don't need them edited. While it would be good to be able to update MLG / competitive variants, I think it's even better as it features good maps and won't cause a lot of pointless arguing over what would be better. Just go with what's in Matchmaking.

There's FFA, Doubles, Default 4v4, Snipers, SWAT, MLG for Ranked. Think about it, it's all you need to cover. Squad Battle (6v6) could be great for some, but it became too hard to get a match in anyway. Forget about BTB.

As for everything else, there's Social. A chill FFA on more maps and more people, 5v5, 6v6/8v8, DLC, Multi-Team.

I agree that double EXP weekends would be amazing, because they were a very good incentive to get on. It always featured a massive population / fast matches, and the ranked modes got super competitive near 50s. It was super fun. But it seems that 343 can't do anything about it.

I think it's a bit odd overall. Bungie should have kept full control on Halo 3 online if 343 wasn't going to be able to touch it. But it is what it is.




The whole point is this. Halo 3 is a great game. It was played by millions of people at some point, both super competitive and more casual. That's EXACTLY what made the distinction of Ranked and Social was fun for both sides. People didn't have to back out in pregame, nor try super hard at all times if they didn't feel like it. But EXP was a good incentive to push for the win / not quit out. An actual, meaningful rank, even more.

The game itself is good and there is a strong / fun incentive to grind online. It's very competitive, it just takes a while to get used to. Sure it looks ridiculously easy when you watch pros on Twitch and it makes you feel like hopping online and raping everything in the face. But those guys are pros for a reason.

 

People forget that with the low skill gap of Halo 4.

 

It puts almost everyone on the same level, aiming doesn't stand out unless you have a sniper or a railgun. Maps force you to push up, rather than have the skillful long range battles that descope create + leading shots of old Halo games.

Sniping is WAY snappier as well. Rockets are weaker. Grenades have a much bigger use when aiming is harder. Movement around the map is far more calculated because slower movement is more punishing.

It takes a while to get used to. Don't expect to go back and be as clutch as you were. Halo 4 made most people very rusty and could have made it easier for some to excel. It'll take practice, so don't get mad, rage quit, or just post over and over about how bad it is. Give it time.




Overall I think right now, it's still is an amazing game. For hundreds of thousands of people. It's all about getting used to it. It is frustrating and difficult if you play like it's Halo 4. Remember a lot of things are different, and it's all stuff you have to take into consideration while making in-game decisions.Whether you realize it or not. But it is good in itself and motivating to grind. Nothing needs to be changed on it.

 

 

 

 

The important concern is how the game is promoted

Most of the people who are still active on the competitive scene know that Halo 3 is coming back. Gives us a couple thousand of people. It's not as much as some might think, compared to back when it was the main game. But it's a very reasonable objective to overtake the population of Halo 4, and HOPEFULLY making 343 redirect the course for Halo 5. But that's a whole different thing.

What is important is reaching out to as many people as possible, even if it's the ones who quit, or more casual players. You can even have local tournaments / LANs that much easier as you can just download the game on a console. It's super simple to promote it, and anyone is interested in a **FREE** full game, which happens to be one of the best, most competitive shooters of all time. Most know of Halo 3, but don't know it's coming back. Tell people, spread the word as much as possible. Remind them how awesome it is.

A lot of pros have popular streams going on, and I think tournaments will pull decent numbers as well. The game is ABSOLUTELY amazing to watch on LAN and at a professional level. Think about the intense communication, the crisp shooting, remember how the MLG events were incredible to watch. Motivate some of the older / less active / retired pros to come back. The viewership will grow, but all the promoting will have to be done by key members of the community (including but not limited to 343; as their fanbase contains much younger players or even some who never tried the old games). By word of mouth, by talking to people.

Make sure to tell AS MANY people as possible while the game is free. Everyone needs to do it. That's how networking and spreading news is. It's for a limited time and the promoting needs to be huge. Let EVERYONE know and make it impossible to miss. Remember that it's one of the best games of all time.

Tell as many people as you can, and don't bash 343 too much. Sure there's nothing they can do to improve the situation, and even though it's not needed, it doesn't mean they can't help promoting events for the game.

Thought I'd throw it out there.


TL;DR - The small issues of Halo 3 aren't enough to stop it from growing -- what matters the most for the growth of Halo 3 is explained starting from the red / bolded part. Read that at least, because everyone needs to have a part in it.

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post










 

Sniping is WAY snappier as well. Rockets are weaker. Grenades have a much bigger use when aiming is harder. Movement around the map is far more calculated because slower movement is more punishing.
 

why is that a good thing?

Share this post


Link to post

You're paragraph about host/netcode drastically underplayed the disadvantages of playing offhost. MOST of your kills will be 2 shots above minimum, even with perfect aim. The game's netcode is fucking horrendous.

 

Say what you will about Reach, but when I shot a man, he fucking died. That game, and even Halo 4, spoiled me on hit registration. Last time I played H3 (March of '12), I played 1 game and wondered how I dealt with that garbage for 3 years.

That's what I mean. We've been spoiled by hit registration of the most recent games. Both high accuracy (via aim assists = detached from actual skill) and a much improved netcode. 

 

I do think you're overdoing the "most of your kills will be 2 shots above minimum" part. Unless you're on a solid red bar, I don't see how ping can get so high that you're two shots down in a simultaneous encounter. The BR doesn't fire that fast.

 

You can't go back to being used to it in a single game, and it's always been hard. Being able to measure how far ahead you have to lead your shots comes from pure experience. That's the point. It takes pratice. You won't get that in one game then getting off. Give it a solid try rather than get mad at it.

 

Rockets are weaker
 
why is that a good thing?

 

It's relative. You would not put Reach's grenades in Halo 3. Halo 3 has much slower movement (compared to having sprint), therefore rockets are much harder to avoid unless you have a perfect shot and time a nice jump with an accurate 4sk. It all evens out. I was comparing it to Reach or Halo 4, where rockets have a much bigger blast radius because of sprint and jetpacks, making it necessary.

 

You have to use them carefully and not expect the same kind of kills, and that's what I wanted to explain. It's all these things that make Halo 3 different and that requires learning the game again rather than call it bullshit or get pissed. I know a lot of people seem to do that, and it's not a good approach.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I tried playing today. Always get a shit host and the game is just laggy across most playlists for me. Its hard to enjoy a game that suffers from a bad netcode when ontop of that you get laggy games most of the time. Its probably my average internet but still, not enjoyable to play atm for me 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I hardly get any lag in h3 unless its against foreigners. Sucks for you guys I guess..

 

H3 is not close to being the best halo but at least the game doesn't aim for you nearly as much as reach and h4

Share this post


Link to post

ive noticed lately the br has a sort of bloom. To me anyway. If i spam the br on someone some of my shots dont hit, but when i shoot 1 shot individually and no spam theyre more accurate cause im able to lead the shot then shoot, as opposed to already shooting then dragging my br across the guy for a shit br spread. 

Share this post


Link to post

That's what I mean. We've been spoiled by hit registration of the most recent games. Both high accuracy (via aim assists = detached from actual skill) and a much improved netcode.

 

I do think you're overdoing the "most of your kills will be 2 shots above minimum" part. Unless you're on a solid red bar, I don't see how ping can get so high that you're two shots down in a simultaneous encounter. The BR doesn't fire that fast.

 

You can't go back to being used to it in a single game, and it's always been hard. Being able to measure how far ahead you have to lead your shots comes from pure experience. That's the point. It takes pratice. You won't get that in one game then getting off. Give it a solid try rather than get mad at it.

I have no issue with H3's aim assist. I think it's one of the strong points of the game. It's also not with leading. I know how to use a projectile weapon quite well. I played H3 almost every day from 07-'10. I know how to use the BR. I understand the spread and how to compensate for it, everything. I think the game is an absolute gem on LAN.

 

My issue is that when I land my shots, I don't get credit for the damage. I see my ammo bar filling back up because my shots are being refunded, constantly. I routinely get 7 shot kills on kids that aren't looking at me, because the game just won't count it in 5 (default MM).

 

You can't practice shitty hit registration. Theres nothing i could have done about it. My point was that after playing games that do that a lot better, I was so frustrated that I didn't feel like H3 online deserved to get acclimated to again.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

Last night I had a lot better luck with region hosts and the games were a lot more fun, towards the end of the night apparently all the mexican host beasts woke up, so I just hopped off. Once the population comes back this should improve.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

good lord....smfh

 

Halo 1 would break a lot of you guys down to tears....soft drake-like tears because of much difficult it is. Weaker rockets are a good thing? lol. Halo 3 completely dumbed down this community..

 

Yep, we've had our hands held so much recently with super glue like auto aim in games like CoD...I used to laugh at killcams in Bops1 when a guy would hide around a corner and you would see the game auto grab me a foot before I came around the corner...smh. Since moving back to H3, I can see just how much my BR has fallen off because I could take weeks off at a time and not lose anything.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

good lord....smfh

 

Halo 1 would break a lot of you guys down to tears....soft drake-like tears because of much difficult it is. Weaker rockets are a good thing? lol. Halo 3 completely dumbed down this community..

 

Weaker rockets are a good thing when you take into account how slow the BR kills in H3 and even in H2. People forget that the only competitive map that used rockets in H2 was Beaver Creek. If they were on every map, constantly getting killed by rockets would get annoying. It is very much a "checkmate scenario" unless you're holding your teammates' hand, and even then at least one of you is guaranteed to die. In H3, they decided to start putting rockets on half the maps which was only tolerable because they were hard to kill with and enemies already had to hold eachothers' hands to kill people so you were already set up to kill rocket guys. You couldn't just blast rockets in the opponent's general vicinity because they'd survive and punish you. If they were easy as **** to use, rocket users would NEVER get killed in H3.

 

Rockets are obviously way better in CE how they should be, but they only work because you spawn with CE's sniper-cannon pistol instead of H3's squirtgun BR. If H5 somehow manages to get a pistol-like starting weapon, then I'll welcome back CE-like rockets with open arms.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

good lord....smfh

 

Halo 1 would break a lot of you guys down to tears....soft drake-like tears because of much difficult it is. Weaker rockets are a good thing? lol. Halo 3 completely dumbed down this community..

 

That's what I mean. We've been spoiled by hit registration of the most recent games. Both high accuracy (via aim assists = detached from actual skill) and a much improved netcode. 

 

[...] It's relative. You would not put Reach's grenades in Halo 3. Halo 3 has much slower movement (compared to having sprint), therefore rockets are much harder to avoid unless you have a perfect shot and time a nice jump with an accurate 4sk. It all evens out. I was comparing it to Reach or Halo 4, where rockets have a much bigger blast radius because of sprint and jetpacks, making it necessary.

 

You have to use them carefully and not expect the same kind of kills, and that's what I wanted to explain. It's all these things that make Halo 3 different and that requires learning the game again rather than call it bullshit or get pissed. I know a lot of people seem to do that, and it's not a good approach.

I think I kind of cover that. You are mistaken to infer that I think weaker power weapons are a good thing. I was just giving people a reminder. However, rockets being a bit weaker than in the other games doesn't make them bad or useless, just more skillful / punishing to use; I fail to see the issue with that.

 

There's an important balance to respect when deciding on what makes a weapon work. The blast radius / damage of rockets makes sense in Halo 3, in relation to the base movement, optimal kill time of the BR, jump height, reactivity of other explosives, etc.

 

If you take it out of context, of course weaker rockets aren't good. I don't think anyone would argue with that. But they're balanced nonetheless, and still guaranteed kills if you use proper positioning and aiming.

 

Plus, if you make literally every weapon strong, it's not any better. Look at Halo 4. The Needler or Railgun on host make you a god, anyone and their mom can snipe or 4sk almost all the time and rockets are unavoidable / impossible to kill in time at short or mid range.

 

You can call this point "dumbed down" all you want, and make a meaningless reference to CE in order to get people to agree, but you're the one taking things out of context. CE's powerful sandbox all made sense given the emphasis on both power-ups and both the most powerful and difficult starting weapon of the entire series. It contributed to the skill gap and was balanced in its environment.

 

I doubt anyone will argue the fact that Halo 3's BR is weaker than it needs to be, and the other weapons -- rockets in this case -- make sense in comparison to it. Sure, this fact is not something to rejoice about, but it's balanced nonetheless. It's the more important part in this situation.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Hard way got a point.

I honestly think Halo 3 is a good game, but like any other game it has its flaws and in this case the shots, netcode or whatever people call it is very annoying and is something that Reach and Halo 4 fixed imo.
Spoiled us on hit registration is not bad when its suppose to be like that from the very first Halo. In Halo 3 it doesn't matter if I have the first 3 shots I might die not because of my accuracy but because of that weird shot registration (or probably that, Im not an expert in the subject) When you shot someone, you're shooting that person like it should in HR, H4 but in Halo 3 it doesnt happen like that. You might call it skill but from my perspective is something not working properly for a FPS and I'm glad that Reach and H4 stepped up something that it was really bad IMO in the past titles. 

Again, everything I just said is my opinion.

 

You're paragraph about host/netcode drastically underplayed the disadvantages of playing offhost. MOST of your kills will be 2 shots above minimum, even with perfect aim. The game's netcode is fucking horrendous.

Say what you will about Reach, but when I shot a man, he fucking died. That game, and even Halo 4, spoiled me on hit registration. Last time I played H3 (March of '12), I played 1 game and wondered how I dealt with that garbage for 3 years.

Share this post


Link to post

Hard way got a point.

 

I honestly think Halo 3 is a good game, but like any other game it has its flaws and in this case the shots, netcode or whatever people call it is very annoying and is something that Reach and Halo 4 fixed imo.

Spoiled us on hit registration is not bad when its suppose to be like that from the very first Halo. In Halo 3 it doesn't matter if I have the first 3 shots I might die not because of my accuracy but because of that weird shot registration (or probably that, Im not an expert in the subject) When you shot someone, you're shooting that person like it should in HR, H4 but in Halo 3 it doesnt happen like that. You might call it skill but from my perspective is something not working properly for a FPS and I'm glad that Reach and H4 stepped up something that it was really bad IMO in the past titles. 

 

Again, everything I just said is my opinion.

Yup. There's no point in being in denial about the netcode of Halo 3. It is by far its most severe issue, but I am under the impression that a lot of people are quick to blame the game rather than blame themselves.

 

I've had my fair share of breaks and returns to Halo 3 (post-Reach) and every single time, it took a few games to get a decent shot back, and was EXTREMELY frustrating sometimes. Not just the netcode is so different, but aiming is just plain harder than it is in the newer games.

 

If you add the more difficult aiming (general aim assists), the weird reticle movement, descope, leading shots (which varies based on ping), the aiming skill gap just increased that much. Now, on top of that, you have ranked / competitive games at all times, unlike Reach or Halo 4. It's just so much harder overall. It's easy to see how people would have a natural tendency to get far more frustrated and blame the game, but it's just something you have to get used to again.

 

Some people just weren't even that good at it, and Reach's lack of ranks made them look better than they were. Or Halo 4's default aimbot coupled with no ranks spoonfed them even more fake skill. It's hard to accept for some, but it is what it is.

 

Just remember that there's no 100% formula for it. You have to lead more or less based on ping, or even shoot a split second before seeing someone pop out from around a corner. If you're knowledgeable enough about the game online, you can figure it out within the first few battles of a game.

 

Yes, sometimes you will hit bloodshots -- even on LAN, which tells a lot -- have your bullets refunded or get a double reload. I guess it's a valid concern with the game. But more often than not, your bullets don't just disappear. You missed while expecting to connect.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The average killtime of the h1 pistol 2-3 shots higher than its minimum killtime even with good players. Control in every halo past 1 is very weak and nerfed power items are largely the cause of that.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The average killtime of the h1 pistol 2-3 shots higher than its minimum killtime even with good players. Control in every halo past 1 is very weak and nerfed power items are largely the cause of that.

Very much agreed. That's why good teams stood out a lot more than good individual players since then. It created interesting dynasties, but individual players just can't stand out as much unless they have a sniper or the sickest / most unpredictable routes.

 

There's much more emphasis on linear aggression and timed pushes to control elements that empower the individuals.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I loved Halo 3 back when it was popular, but now it's unplayable for me. The horrible hit detection and all of the eating just ruins it, there's a problem when shooting hardly works in a shooter.

 

There's also the issue of Halo 3 loving to make you stay in black screen all game. I played lone wolves a few days ago and one game I literally couldn't play for 90% of it. Sorry, ranking down because a Mexican pulled host isn't my idea of fun.

Share this post


Link to post

Very much agreed. That's why good teams stood out a lot more than good individual players since then. It created interesting dynasties, but individual players just can't stand out as much unless they have a sniper or the sickest / most unpredictable routes.

 

There's much more emphasis on linear aggression and timed pushes to control elements that empower the individuals.

 

which is a very bad thing...

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

which is a very bad thing...

Well if you acknowledge the fact that

- aiming is still harder than in Halo 4 (though I ACTUALLY believe it's not the case for Reach NBNS)

- power positions are harder to reach without sprint

- maps are much better overall 

- ranks / competitive games in Matchmaking

 

Halo 3 is still a better option than Halo 4 as it has an higher skill gap anyway. Halo 4 is just that much worse. Reach would be better but it's not as accessible and a lot of people have a bad opinion of it because of 2010 / pre-TU. Matchmaking in Reach is more or less as competitive as Halo 4 outside of Arena.

Share this post


Link to post

Well if you acknowledge the fact that

- aiming is still harder than in Halo 4 (though I ACTUALLY believe it's not the case for Reach NBNS)

- power positions are harder to reach without sprint

- maps are much better overall 

- ranks / competitive games in Matchmaking

 

Halo 3 is still a better option than Halo 4 as it has an higher skill gap anyway. Halo 4 is just that much worse. Reach would be better but it's not as accessible and a lot of people have a bad opinion of it because of 2010 / pre-TU. Matchmaking in Reach is more or less as competitive as Halo 4 outside of Arena.

 

so matchmaking is more important than gameplay now? I understand your argument but i can't agree with it.

Share this post


Link to post

so matchmaking is more important than gameplay now? I understand your argument but i can't agree with it.

It's a key component to getting consistent practice in. If you played Reach a lot and were good at it, you will know that 8 games out of 10 were nothing like competitive in the MLG playlist, people would quit out a lot, etc. Scrims aren't always fun to set up without a very active FL.

 

But on its own, no, Matchmaking is not more important than gameplay. There's no point in having ranks to measure skill when there is no skill gap. I have never even said or implied that. But if we're picking between H3 or Reach, it's obvious that H3 is the way to go, for the sole fact that it's becoming free to download for 2 weeks, which is the main stimulus behind this movement.

 

Reach v7 is more competitive than Halo 3. But the maps are bad, movement and jumps are limited, sniping is much easier, the game isn't becoming free; therefore less accessible, it's not as fun to watch and matchmaking sucks.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.