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Velo

What is 343i thinking now?

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They know the population is bad, they're a company, they're not going to come out and say, "yes we know the population is bad."

I'm aware of that, but it'd still be nice. I honestly don't even care about the business aspect if the argument. Yes they make games to make money, but don't they also doit to make people happy?

I know there a game devs out there that don't just try and make money , but hope they make a quality game that makes a lot of money.

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Here are Frank's thoughts on Halo 4 as of January.

http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/01/09/The-Halo-Bulletin-1913.aspx

 

So let me save you the trouble of trolling my statement: We have a lot to learn. We made a lot of mistakes. We can do better. 

...

Halo 4 is the best and fastest-selling Halo game in the series.

 

So 343's perception is they did a great job with Halo 4.  But Frank conceded there were mistakes made so what are they and what do they see as areas of improvement?

 

There are a ton of things we wish we'd done better: Features that didn’t make it into the final game. Glitches that emerged. Missteps made. DLC fiascos. Communication breakdowns. But there were things that went astonishingly well – the creation of a genuinely competitive AAA studio chief among them. A collection of talent and souls that can do something genuinely amazing on this and next-generation hardware. The overhaul of an amazing game engine – but one that really needed to be overhauled – and an amassed education on systems, people, code and audience that will stand us in great stead for the future. 

 

For the most part these areas of improvement are logistical.  There's no mention of improving gameplay or maps or the interplay of gameplay and maps.  Only a positive note on the game engine overhaul.

 

Halo 5 was probably already past the planning stages before the Halo 4 population flatlined.  343 probably felt comfortable building on the Halo 4 mechanics for Halo 5.  Expectations for Halo 5 should probably be pretty low.

 

343 doesn't seem to get their audience.  They don't seem to understand the nuances of the interplay between game mechanics and map design.  For Halo 5 to be good, they'd have to:

 

1) Accept that Halo 4 multiplayer has "massive room for improvement".

2) Know how to improve it.

3) Be capable of implementing the improvements in a very short timeframe for a major title.

 

It'd take a series of miracles for Halo 5 to be good.  It's going to be more of the same...modded NS game types and forge maps for the newer Halos or playing older Halos.  Btw if NS was even going to be an option in Halo 5, I'd think they'd have implemented it as an option in Halo 4 by now.

 

I think when Frank said best, I think he meant best selling, it would make sense in the context that it's in

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I'm aware of that, but it'd still be nice. I honestly don't even care about the business aspect if the argument. Yes they make games to make money, but don't they also doit to make people happy?

I know there a game devs out there that don't just try and make money , but hope they make a quality game that makes a lot of money.

Of course it would be nice for them to be a bit more transparent with us, but that's what most companies are like. If they're selling a product, they aren't going to jeopardise any potential sales by telling people their product sucks. 

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isjhLsWHKfzGR.gif

 

Nobody knows what they are thinking, but Halo 4 will be a complete graveyard by the end of November. 

 

I have never laughed so hard at a GIF since the AL one pre-release H4  :lol:

 

+1

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This is seriously the most annoying thing as a Halo MP player that the devs NEVER, under any circumstance talk about WHY they made additions/changes to the game and just in general go in depth with the community about the game. No Vidocs dont count, that is not interacting with the community and people want to know WHY 343 chose to go in the direction they did and what their future plans are for MP. Halo is just as much the communities as it is their own, it should be a collaborative process between dev and community not everything veiled in secrecy with random "test groups" determining the future of OUR game.

That's why I love MMO company devs. They tell you why the changed something or what changes they're thinking about making and why they have those ideas. 

 

Example: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=684656

 

"But we will walk you through the changes as they currently stand and explain the reasoning behind the changes."

 

 

Also the fact that they even made Reps for each class in SWTOR to ask questions for the community, the devs try to keep an open conversation.. They're also giving out a FREE digital expansion with 12v12 Space PVP. We got forge island.. lol

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If I were at 343 I would see this as a red flag - but at the same time I think that they have realized that the competitive community has not been satisfied with a game since Halo 3.....

The difference between being upset and giving up is vast... like night and day. Reach populations this time were way better with communities all over bungie net. Ya they complained but mm was healthy. Customs were everywhere and everyone and their dog was forging maps and involved in a community.

 

I have never seen so much hostility toward halo as I have in the last few months. Most of my friends who regularly forged gave up on halo because of 4. It's tragic. This last forge contest did nothing to change either the interest to forge or get custom games going again.

 

It's so sad....

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The downfall of Halo over the last couple years as been something else... With my self being part of the golden age of Halo, And seeing how massively huge of a success the first 3 Halo were. I still cannot believe we are where we are now. It's mind boggling.

 

Sprint.

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Of course it would be nice for them to be a bit more transparent with us, but that's what most companies are like. If they're selling a product, they aren't going to jeopardise any potential sales by telling people their product sucks. 

Read my post above.. game companies can be transparent without jeopardizing sales.. 343 actually did it with how transparent they were on the weapon update with what they were trying and why. Now if they did that all the time like MMO companies did, I think we might have a better chance of giving them better feedback

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h4 is done.  to oblivion.  next gen is coming, tons of shooters will be available (COD, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny ect ect)   these are all AAA games that are coming out.  

 

atleast with h2 when xbox 360 came out, the best option was like perfect dark zero (LMAO).  

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That's why I love MMO company devs. They tell you why the changed something or what changes they're thinking about making and why they have those ideas. 

 

Example: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=684656

 

"But we will walk you through the changes as they currently stand and explain the reasoning behind the changes."

 

 

Also the fact that they even made Reps for each class in SWTOR to ask questions for the community, the devs try to keep an open conversation.. They're also giving out a FREE digital expansion with 12v12 Space PVP. We got forge island.. lol

 

I think the best explanation we got for sprint in one of the Reach Vidocs was something like "I play like a bull-dog and die alot, so I love that sprint gets me back into the action quicker". So basically you are allowing your own personal bias to ruin Halo for everyone else.

 

I know what you are saying about MMO devs being great about communicating with the community and being open about their dev process, one of the main reasons I pre-ordered GW2 was because ArenaNet detailed basically their entire dev process on their website prior to release and clearly communicated their goals for the game. I know Microsoft might have some different policies regarding discussing future projects, but updating the community in bulletins or occasional feed-back threads on Waypoint in which devs actively participate would be huge in earning the communities trust and getting some meaningful discussion going. Like when Bungie explained the H3 BR spread decision in one of their weekly updates, sure people still complained about it but at least people knew the reasoning behind it and were more accepting of it from then on. 

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Read my post above.. game companies can be transparent without jeopardizing sales.. 343 actually did it with how transparent they were on the weapon update with what they were trying and why. Now if they did that all the time like MMO companies did, I think we might have a better chance of giving them better feedback

Yeah, I know. They could be a lot better and I hear stories of devs who really go the extra mile with giving detailed updates to the fans, I guess I don't really know much about this because my main game pretty much is Halo, and Bungie and 343 have never been good with explaining WHY they're changing certain things.

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It's currently the 4th most played game on Steam?

Compared to older Counter Strike games that isn't that good.

Also the community/pros dislike the game.

 

The only reason pros are still playing CS:GO is because the tournaments have a large prize pool.

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...

 

And now they are suppose to have the perfect Halo in less then 2 years time? Seems surreal.

 

They would have to scrap their entire idea of Halo... But as with most people with power they power trip and ruin it for the rest of us :)

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And now they are suppose to have the perfect Halo in less then 2 years time? Seems surreal.

 

They would have to scrap their entire idea of Halo... But as with most people with power they power trip and ruin it for the rest of us :)

Who said that was a bad thing...?

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Yea it could see increase in population, from the hardcore players at least. However, casuals are quitting faster and faster, and they're the majority.

 

But did the majority of all Halo players quit because of no ranks, no de-scope, and no sprint?(All these things scream competitive, not casual). In my opinion, the casuals probably didn't really care about those things. Something else killed it for them probably. Not sure what that would be though.

Halo 4 has very, very poor long term incentive to keep playing. You can hit SR 130 in a month. The only thing it has in-game is commendations, which are useless after you hit max rank, and other players can't see your commendation progress like they could in Reach. CSR added some replayability for people like me, but few players are willing to look outside the game for a reason to keep playing.

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This often seems to be overlooked, but I agree completely. It's incredibly frustrating to dislike most of the maps that are really popular in Matchmaking and because of a vote system end up playing them more times than any sane person should in a single day. A simple veto option with all gametypes in a playlist having the same base player traits and loadout(s) would be ideal. Heck, by now I'd even be happy with no veto or voting at all - just give us a map and make us play it Halo 2 style. At least that way even the maps that are initially disliked will have some kind of strategies developed for them rather than just being ignored.

This, so hard. If Burial Mounds had released in H4, it would have absolutely no meta because no one would vote for it. But after being forced to play it, I remember some really interesting tactics on that map, and it made for some memorable matches. We don't get that anymore. I'm looking at you, Meltdown...

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^ Halo REACH isn't even an embarrassment, it was just unbalanced.

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maybe they should take notes on how to make a real game...old mechanics obviously kill the new.

 

 

#goatlo

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That Xbox Live chart.. soon Halo 4 will not even be listed, and this early in its life, not even a year, is a great example of how even casuals hate Halo 4. Unbalanced, randomness, accompanied by terrible maps and mechanics like Flinch, Sprint, and poor gameplay in general have driven everyone away.

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Well at least those game of the year editions being sold this week will be really good for the population, oh wait.

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I think when Frank said best, I think he meant best selling, it would make sense in the context that it's in

 

yah misread, but still if you read the article he does stand behind it being a great game.  Also to an executive best-selling and best are synonymous :)  Step 1 is openly acknowledging that multiplayer is a disappointment and they're not there yet was my point.

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That Xbox Live chart.. soon Halo 4 will not even be listed, and this early in its life, not even a year, is a great example of how even casuals hate Halo 4. Unbalanced, randomness, accompanied by terrible maps and mechanics like Flinch, Sprint, and poor gameplay in general have driven everyone away.

 

Unfortunately I think most people believe that there is only an absolutely tiny chance that sprint, AA's, and PODS will be removed.

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