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ST Trick77

Europe v5.1 Settings [No Sprint]

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I thought No sprint played okay but at this point do you guys want to play mods, or do you want dev support?

 

Ghost has asked for a NS gametype and didn't receive one - must be a reason behind it

(they are busy with the next title? or they simply did not want to do it)

 

 

The European scene is already pretty segregated from the American side and I think we can all agree on that.  Using No sprint (while it may pull a few more viewers)  May actually end up hurting you in the long run seeing as I highly doubt 343/Waypoint would support by blasting out the stream, etc.  It sucks but The American and EU side needs Dev support while Halo is in a slump / everyone is switching to other titles. 

 

 

 

Just my opinion - I really do like how NS plays once again but you need an official gametype imo.

 

When you talk about Dev support, what exactly do you mean, do you mean playlist integration and just tweeting of streams etc or is there more to it then that?  Just curious what you mean by Dev support.

 

From the conversation I had with Ghost a few months ago 343 offered to take out sprint but Ghost didn't want it at the time, which if fair enough.

 

I understand that the EU and NA Halo scenes are out of line, which is unfortunate as we all wanted some universal settings to use, as we all know what the benefits are.  However, unfortunately the V5 settings were particularly ill received in EU, to the point it put teams off wanting to attended, and we felt the best course of action was again to make our own settings, trying to bring back a more classic Halo feel.  So far the response from both communities has been overwhelmingly positive towards the changes we are looking at implementing.

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Just my opinion - I really do like how NS plays once again, but you need an official gametype imo.

I don't think there is anything official about Halo 4, this game is bad. At this point we are just doing what is the best game type. It's safe to say that this game was dead from release date. There are hundreds more people playing H3 and Reach MLG v7. If someone is gonna make a NS league (which we can all agree is the better game type) then let them, this game can't die anymore than it has.

 

Halo is hibernating until Halo 5. 

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When you talk about Dev support, what exactly do you mean, do you mean playlist integration and just tweeting of streams etc or is there more to it then that?  Just curious what you mean by Dev support.

 

From the conversation I had with Ghost a few months ago 343 offered to take out sprint but Ghost didn't want it at the time, which if fair enough.

 

I understand that the EU and NA Halo scenes are out of line, which is unfortunate as we all wanted some universal settings to use, as we all know what the benefits are.  However, unfortunately the V5 settings were particularly ill received in EU, to the point it put teams off wanting to attended, and we felt the best course of action was again to make our own settings, trying to bring back a more classic Halo feel.  So far the response from both communities has been overwhelmingly positive towards the changes we are looking at implementing.

 

Dev support is critical - The official social media outlets for the Halo Franchise are pretty massive + for AGL they have put in an in game popup when you sign on to Halo 4 that you have to see before being able to play the game.   The trade off in my opinion simply is not there. 

 

 

Once again - Ghost asked for a gametype and he did not receive one.  Take that as you will.

 

And I think everyone is overreacting to v5 - people dont like change, its just a natural human emotion.  A lot of pros were resistant to ricochet and other v5 settings without actually even testing them against other pro teams in a scrim.  I have seen in a matter of 2 days pros saying "v5 is trash, ricochet wtf"  To "Oh Ricochet is actually a really good gametype" - It just takes time for people to adjust or #adapt.  If the EU scene really hates the settings then obviously you guys have the right to do your own thing just like you have done in the past...  I just hope you understand the trade off for playing mods.

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Game settings should focus more on what the community and team players truly want to play and focus on improving, alot of people have simply gave up on Halo due to Sprint and other features we dislike. Our future truly is looking at the past and taking our inspiration and desires for Halo from it, as previous Halo games had the game settings quite right and simply needed to continue improving and learning from the mistakes.

 

Having a blend of what Halo CE, 2, did right would be the best route to go in my opinion, and it seems your settings are headed in the right direction.

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Saucey, at this point where 343i is almost  full on dev with the next Halo title, I would choose Ideal Halo Gameplay(mod) than "Dev support", tweeting streams and putting it in the welcome page of Halo 4(where population is almost dead so it doesnt really matter) isn't dev support. I would prefer giving the players what they want to play regardless if the dev likes it or not. We don't need more "yes men" and I'm really glad EU is going this way.

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In terms of Dev Support i think it's much more important getting teams to events at this moment in time. Numbers on stream are somewhat important yes, i'm not sure of what we reached at i49 but i doubt it would have been a lot in all honesty.

 

Moving to No Sprint for EU means we don't lose any of the small amount of teams that we have who are unhappy with V5 and it's also likely to bring back people that became disillusioned (some teams are already starting to form).  If we'd have stuck with 5SK back when we changed to a coin flip version we would have lost so many more people and have basically been left with nothing.  This is just something that we have to do, it's no slight on Ghost, it's no slight on 343, but for us to enjoy Halo and make a successful event It needs to be done.

 

In terms of support of our tournaments from Developers i don't really think we've had a great deal in the past, i may be wrong but i haven't noticed much.

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I thought No sprint played okay but at this point do you guys want to play mods, or do you want dev support?

 

Ghost has asked for a NS gametype and didn't receive one - must be a reason behind it

(they are busy with the next title? or they simply did not want to do it)

 

 

The European scene is already pretty segregated from the American side and I think we can all agree on that. Using No sprint (while it may pull a few more viewers) May actually end up hurting you in the long run seeing as I highly doubt 343/Waypoint would support by blasting out the stream, etc. It sucks but The American and EU side needs Dev support while Halo is in a slump / everyone is switching to other titles.

 

 

 

Just my opinion - I really do like how NS plays once again, but you need an official gametype imo.

Is dev support really more important than enjoyable settings at this point? Team Throwdown is already ran by Ghost and EU settings won't be integrated. Huge dev tourneys like H4GC are ran using 343s settings. AGL is ran on v5 which the EU community doesn't like.

 

So the only disadvantage to using no sprint settings is that they MIGHT not get tweet support from 343. Is that really worth gimping the settings? The potential hype generated by using no sprint settings probably will gain them as much publicity anyways.

 

I think its much more important to use enjoyable settings than to worry about a few lost stream viewers. More teams will attend, more people will be interested in competing because the settings will be FUN and their scene will grow.

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Is dev support really more important than enjoyable settings at this point? Team Throwdown is already ran by Ghost and EU settings won't be integrated. Huge dev tourneys like H4GC are ran using 343s settings. AGL is ran on v5 which the EU community doesn't like.

 

So the only disadvantage to using no sprint settings is that they MIGHT not get tweet support from 343. Is that really worth gimping the settings? The potential hype generated by using no sprint settings probably will gain them as much publicity anyways.

 

I think its much more important to use enjoyable settings than to worry about a few lost stream viewers. More teams will attend, more people will be interested in competing because the settings will be FUN and their scene will grow.

This. Dev support doesn't mean shit when you have a game that no one wants to play. 

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I also want to point out that the strategy of appealing to the devs to help grow the competitive scene has as a whole not worked. Halo 4 is not on the top ten of XBL anymore. It barely pulls 15k concurrent population. There are probably well under 5000 people period who play Throwdown.

 

Stream numbers may have been holding steady for AGL and even growing a bit but it is overall miniscule. You could attribute this tiny bit of growth to dev support, but when you compare the growth in AGL to what happened with v7 Reach it is clear that having incredible settings that people are hyped to play is the most important factor for growth by far. And honestly, its not like 343 is giving AGL 100k for each event. Its a few tweets and the main menu thing. Its not that huge of a deal.

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I thought No sprint played okay but at this point do you guys want to play mods, or do you want dev support?  

 

Ghost has asked for a NS gametype and didn't receive one - must be a reason behind it

(they are busy with the next title? or they simply did not want to do it)

 

 

The European scene is already pretty segregated from the American side and I think we can all agree on that.  Using No sprint (while it may pull a few more viewers)  May actually end up hurting you in the long run seeing as I highly doubt 343/Waypoint would support by blasting out the stream, etc.  It sucks but The American and EU side needs Dev support while Halo is in a slump / everyone is switching to other titles. 

 

 

 

Just my opinion - I really do like how NS plays once again, but you need an official gametype imo.

Has 343 ever promoted EU tournaments on their website? Do they even promote them at all?

 

AGL does but I haven't seen the European side get any "dev support" at all, apart from the updates made to the game and new maps- and they went out to everybody anyway. 

The only time I have seen 343 see the European side was for the Global Championship. 

 

I don't see why you are worried about European Dev Support when they don't seem to get any in the first place- anyone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong, of course. 

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Has 343 ever promoted EU tournaments on their website? Do they even promote them at all?

 

AGL does but I haven't seen the European side get any "dev support" at all, apart from the updates made to the game and new maps- and they went out to everybody anyway. 

The only time I have seen 343 see the European side was for the Global Championship. 

 

I don't see why you are worried about European Dev Support when they don't seem to get any in the first place- anyone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong, of course. 

And the best way to get dev support is to start using modded gametypes?

 

Nope. 

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And the best way to get dev support is to start using modded gametypes?

 

Nope. 

 

I get on well with Quinn, Jess, Eric etc however there will be no need for dev support if we don't have any teams or future tournaments to play in. 

 

It's basically a choice between looking after the people that have stuck around and giving them something to enjoy or hoping for a few tweets/links to the stream.  

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And the best way to get dev support is to start using modded gametypes?

 

Nope. 

Are they even going to "promote it" even if they do use V5? Nope.

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Are they even going to "promote it" even if they do use V5? Nope.

I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, if you ever want a chance at dev support, using modded gametypes isn't the way to go. 

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And the best way to get dev support is to start using modded gametypes?

 

Nope. 

We wouldn't need mods if we got dev support in the first place.

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I made this thread awhile ago: http://teambeyond.net/forum/index.php?/topic/220-halos-core-sprint/

 

 

 

I'm going to keep this short and simple, sprint doesn't belong in Halo (don't stop reading though). Halo has a unique formula that plays amazingly well and not only draws players in, but maintains them. Sprint is not apart of that formula (neither are loadouts). Let me explain. To start, sprint, instant respawn, no descoping, and armor abilities are why small maps don't play well. With sprint you can get around the map much too quickly. Instant respawn allows you to just pick off enemies you leave one shot after getting out played. No descoping allows you to not miss and hit everything. Armor abilities give players get out of jail free cards, extra routes, and make maps more cluttered. We have dealt with instant respawn and armor abilities in the right way, next is descoping and sprint. Descoping will return in Halo 5, if it doesn't, then goodbye. Sprint we can deal with now though. It should be removed and pushed for no sprint in Halo 5. We need to focus on Halo 5 now. Right now is the early process of development. Loadouts and armor abilities have been in the last two Halos, we need to correct this. Back to sprint though, the most important issue with sprint is that it is near impossible to make a good map with sprint in Halo. Making fun maps is sooo much easier without sprint. 343i couldn't make more than one good map with sprint enabled.. Forgers are even having issues with it. The jumps that are possible with sprint, the routes that are easier, etc. Haven is a huge map if you weren't aware. Even in Halo 4 sprint needs to go. No sprint adds so much to gameplay. Remember the jump from plat to green in Halo 3? Pointless with sprint. Simple dynamics are lost with sprint. Sprint would ruin the good maps in Halo 3. How can you adjust the pit, narrows, construct, etc for sprint? You can't. Better maps, descoping, and in game ranks are top priority imo, and the best way to get better maps, is to remove sprint and add descoping back.

 

 

(The rest isn't just about sprint)

 

Also, please don't type adapt anywhere in any of your posts. It lowers everybody's IQ and I bought a Halo game. It should be the same in the core aspect of gameplay. New games should not change the core gameplay. When doing scientific experiments, scientists change one aspect and nothing else, that way they know what aspects work and which ones don't. 343i changed way too much, and at first we didn't know what worked and what didn't. As we filter through everything, we are finding our way home. If 343i wants to make their footprint on the Halo series, then release a Halo game. Don't change the gameplay, but add features. Add in game ranks, add a theater that works with multiple people, improve forge, work constantly on improving maps, add your own game mode (spartan ops/firefight/something better), add in spectator mode, etc. Add in features, don't change the gameplay. I don't mind spartan ops/mantis type updates because it is something new, but it doesn't break the game. Do these kinds of things, but don't detract from the Halo experience. Please learn from your mistakes, and do the following for gameplay reasons:

 

-remove flinch

-remove armor abilties

-remove loadouts

-remove sprint

-remove ordances

-add in descoping

-add in moving while holding back button

-add in camo/os orbs (maybe this is where you can get creative and add in other orbs)

-Spend more time on maps

-Bring in Warriors and Ambush mutiple times throughout Halo 5's development, as well as Salot, Ghostayame, Diesel, Gandhi, and Maven to test out maps, weapons, powerups/orbs, settings, new gametypes, old gametypes, functionality, etc. The best will find flaws first. Incourage them to talk directly to the big shots and those in charge. Make esports known throughout the entire office. Meet with MLG, AGL, UMG, and Ghostayame to make sure that the throwdown/competitive settings will be 95% the same with the casual settings. That's why Halos 1-3 were successful. The game was fun and competitive without changing anything. Do this, and you will be successful.

 

 

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We wouldn't need mods if we got dev support in the first place.

Remember before the games release, 343 said along the lines of 'We will give you no end of custom game options....', Dev support towards the competitive community shouldn't just be about tweeting the stream....

 

I am 100% towards no sprint settings. 

 

Also I honestly think Station 9 should just be ditched. Replace it with a more suited map.

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@Beyond staff. You may like where you are right now politically with 343 Industries and their "developer support", but don't act for a second like you do not support efforts to return no sprint settings to competitive Halo. The last time there was a massive push for no sprint settings, the Beyond team hijacked the test settings and put their name all over it claiming it was the "official" v4 NS. You even streamed NS testing on the official BE Twitch stream. Nothing about sprint belongs in competitive Halo.

What the hell are you talking about.

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all this over developer support? developer support being suck our dicks and we'll pat your back... doesn't exactly sound very supportive to me, if they were offering real support they would be providing us, the competitive community with what we need to create a competitive enviroment, even go as far to help fund and even periodically host there own tournaments using such competitive settings for the community.

 

EU guys, i give you props and go ahead with NS, it will be nice to finally see a mainstream halo league actually offering something competitive for a change.

 

and is it just me or does cyren have a bad memory? he does a tone of shit and when confronted on it always seems to have no recollection of it.

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and is it just me or does cyren have a bad memory? he does a tone of shit and when confronted on it always seems to have no recollection of it.

 

Can you give me an example? We never "hijacked" anyones settings or claimed ownership over any modded gametypes. No one on the Beyond staff programs Halo 4 so I don't see why this comment came up. We did stream for sure though (along with the descope mod).

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What the hell are you talking about.

he's talking about when one of the staff members here took unity, slapped V4 NS on it and claimed it as there own for testing.

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he's talking about when one of the staff members here took unity, slapped V4 NS on it and claimed it as there own for testing.

 

The only main staff member that does testing/gametypes is Ghost.

 

----

Please avoid bringing up stuff you don't understand or were even apart of. That stuff is over 8 months old now and you have false accusations. Along with that, it has nothing to do with the conversation.

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