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Damnation? Derelict? Battle Creek? Chill Out even.

 

I witnessed countless games last easily more than 20 minutes, especially when money was on the line. Also, Halo:CE 1v1s went to 15 Kills.

 

-Ghost

Damnation and battle creek man. Those maps were like the monopoly if Video Games, everyone's stoked to play for the first 15 minutes and then you give up and go to sleep.

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Damnation and battle creek man. Those maps were like the monopoly if Video Games, everyone's stoked to play for the first 15 minutes and then you give up and go to sleep.

 

is this a joke?

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is this a joke?

Yes. Yes it was.

 

But in all seriousness, I've played some long games on both of those maps. 15-20 minutes without exaggeration.

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Yes. Yes it was.

 

But in all seriousness, I've played some long games on both of those maps. 15-20 minutes without exaggeration.

 

yea, those maps in CE can go as long as 15-20 or longer depending on how aggressive guys are playing. 50 kills with no time limit is a beautiful thing to me...the pace not being dictated by a clock is greatness and you don't really realize how long it can take to get those 50 kills because of how much fun you're having.

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Imo it is so lame that there is only 2 ctf gametypes and why take out dispatch without messing with it for a bit to make it more balanced? I am also upset with 1 of the ctf gametypes being a dlc map, not that its a bad thing but i just can't bring myself to buy shitty map packs thats all. No offense to ghost but this update is kind of making me turn away from Throwdown even more. Hopefully h5 will have a variety of good competitive maps on disk and release at least 1 dedicated competitive only map pack. 

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yea, those maps in CE can go as long as 15-20 or longer depending on how aggressive guys are playing. 50 kills with no time limit is a beautiful thing to me...the pace not being dictated by a clock is greatness and you don't really realize how long it can take to get those 50 kills because of how much fun you're having.

I have mixed feelings. I think it's more rewarding playing without a time limit. Getting those 50 kills by your own pace and dictation feels so good, and the tension near the end is incredible. But I also really enjoy the sense of urgency and the rush in the last minute if a close times game.

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Emps still on vertigo I'm hoping are a mistake.

 

I don't see why people shit on ghost for wanting the job and trying to get on 343. Ghost wants to save halo and can only have input truly heard from the inside and is def lookin more at H5 and trying to save the franchise if he gets hired. He knows h4 is dad and cAn only do so much so why not try to help the community in the log run.

 

He wants competitive halo to be a marathon and needs a Long term fix. Not a sprint and only worrying about fixing a broken game that he loved.

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I havent played since the global championship out of boredom. Im glad theres something to play now. With that being said. I have some room on my friendslist. GT:TBRNER

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I havent played since the global championship out of boredom. Im glad theres something to play now. With that being said. I have some room on my friendslist. GT:TBRNER

I added ya. Need more people to play customs with so i dont have to wait til a lobby of 8 loses 1 everytime  :ninja:

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I added ya. Need more people to play customs with so i dont have to wait til a lobby of 8 loses 1 everytime  :ninja:

cool Ill be on later. I have class but i might be able to get on for a couple of hours before 4 if possible

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If anything, Halo:CE had the longest Team Slayer game times of any Halo title. There weren't even any set time limits.

 

-Ghost

Others have pointed out what I meant. (Thanks MNY)

 

Still doesn't counter my point though.

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I didn't notice much changes in the other maps can you guys give me the lowdown?

 

 

  • Spawn changes on Haven
  • Spawn changes on Skyline Flag (Some removed near needles, I believe)
  • Concussion Rifle replaces Railgun on Haven and Sticky Det on Skyline
  • Abandon Unchanged (as far as I'm aware)
  • Station 9 Unchanged (as far as I'm aware)

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Yes there is skill in keeping on top of things, but when a game plays too fast there is no room for movement strategy, no room for set-up strategies or pushing strategies. Not enough certainty behind kills; a lot of them happen randomly because of how hectic it is. Did you plan for that guy to run passed you half shield? Did you plan for the nade you threw across map to finish a 1-shot you couldn't even see, did you plan to sprint unnoticed behind two players, or were they just so caught up in the action they happened to be looking in the wrong direction at the wrong time? 

 

In a slow pace slayer every movement counts. You aren't given kills by chance, you are given them by a direct result of a player's intentions. In this way a slow pace slayer can act as a more accurate judge of player's skill because it minimizes the random and chance elements of such 'cluster fuck' fast paced games where you spawn right in the action such as Onyx, Simplex, Amplified or Skyline. You might spawn with a guy's back to you, or just around the corner from an enemy that is in a 1v1 with one of your team mates. Did you really deserve that kill? Did you really deserve that flank which saved your team mate's life? I would argue not at all; you just died and should be punished for it, not put straight back in combat with full shields, full ammo, full sprint and two grenades. This kinda shit doesn't happen in slower pace games. If you die you spawn in a safe zone behind your team, and your team is weakened while they wait for you to respawn and move back up to help.

 

Having 'play-book' strategies to use to take a position, or to break or hold a set up, is such a deep and timeless concept which focuses on the preparatory, cohesive and executive skills of players, rather than just their reaction times (like fast paced slayers). I call it timeless because there is no end to set-up vs break set-up type strategies. You make a setup, someone will make a strategy to beat it, you alter your set up to defend against the new attack, and someone else will find a counter to that. Now you have to know 2 defenses as well being able to think on your feet to defend against new attacks, especially against unknown teams.

 

I don't know... I guess no one really appreciates that aspect of the game anymore? I always thought it was thrilling seeing teams pull of grand strategies or defend against strong pushes with a man down in slayers or in oddball. I always loved watching clutch single kills that allowed for a flanker to move in and disrupt a set-up which would ultimately lead to a victory. All of these things are lost in fast pace slayers, its just noise for 8 minutes with nothing to note, its just spawn sprint shoot die in the middle of the map all game long. I'm not saying fast pace takes no skill, I'm just saying that slow pace requires a different skill and certain depth that fast pace lacks.

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I would of put an OS on Haven instead of the conc rifle. The conc rifle doesn't really change anything about haven ts, just more br shots and less rail gun kills. Which i guess if you thought haven was perfect already, theres no real issues here. But personally, i always thought Haven was a campy and random gametype. It needs something like a OS to create some sort of flow to the map.

Maybe not in EXT, but should of got used in TS.

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I would of put an OS on Haven instead of the conc rifle. The conc rifle doesn't really change anything about haven ts, just more br shots and less rail gun kills. Which i guess if you thought haven was perfect already, theres no real issues here. But personally, i always thought Haven was a campy and random gametype. It needs something like a OS to create some sort of flow to the map.

 

Maybe not in EXT, but should of got used in TS.

 

What haven really needs is a Camo powerup, but 343i screwed us there. It is the perfect type of map for Camo.

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What haven really needs is a Camo powerup, but 343i screwed us there. It is the perfect type of map for Camo.

 

I think Camo would be awful.

 

Camo has always been better suited as a power-up on maps that allow it to be utilized to take a strong power position (Damnation, Prisoner, Construct, etc.), and has always been rather average / meaningless and more likely to burn on maps that favor run-and-gun (Warlock, no other map since we've had Forge in H3 onward to prevent having a meaningless Camo).

 

Camo on Wizard / Derelict are exceptions because you played on tube TVs, which made Camo much harder to see and there was obviously the quick Camo glitch which made it much more useful in even tight scenarios.

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I think Camo would be awful.

 

Camo has always been better suited as a power-up on maps that allow it to be utilized to take a strong power position (Damnation, Prisoner, Construct, etc.), and has always been rather average / meaningless and more likely to burn on maps that favor run-and-gun (Warlock, no other map since we've had Forge in H3 onward to prevent having a meaningless Camo).

 

Camo on Wizard / Derelict are exceptions because you played on tube TVs, which made Camo much harder to see and there was obviously the quick Camo glitch which made it much more useful in even tight scenarios.

 

Halo 1 camo didn't even really Camo you. You could see the person really easily even on a crapy tube T.V. Camo only made it marginally harder to see. It was good in Halo 1 though because it completely removed aim magnetism so it was much harder to hit the camo person. 

 

Halo 3 camo is more of what I was talking about because it actually makes you legitimately hard to see. 

 

Also, Haven isn't a run and gun map at all. Every pro gameplay I've seen is mid paced with occasional standoffy moments. Comparing it to Warlock is just nonsensical.

 

It isn't super slow by any means, but calling it a run and gun map is just false outside of randoms with bad kids.

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Halo 1 camo didn't even really Camo you. You could see the person really easily even on a crapy tube T.V. Camo only made it marginally harder to see. It was good in Halo 1 though because it completely removed aim magnetism so it was much harder to hit the camo person. 

 

Halo 3 camo is more of what I was talking about because it actually makes you legitimately hard to see. 

 

Also, Haven isn't a run and gun map at all. Every pro gameplay I've seen is mid paced with occasional standoffy moments. Comparing it to Warlock is just nonsensical.

 

It isn't super slow by any means, but calling it a run and gun map is just false outside of randoms with bad kids.

 

You're right it's more like a run and run map.

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Re: Slayer gametypes - I'd rather just see Halo follow other team based shooters and phase Slayer out completely. Aside from needing it to keep tournaments on schedule I don't see what benefits it has in 4v4 over any objective gametype. Most people consider Slayer gametypes to be more "flukey" than objectives, and it is often the case that a less well organised team will take a Slayer game from a team that it would lose all or most objectives to.

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Halo 1 camo didn't even really Camo you. You could see the person really easily even on a crapy tube T.V. Camo only made it marginally harder to see. It was good in Halo 1 though because it completely removed aim magnetism so it was much harder to hit the camo person. 

 

Halo 3 camo is more of what I was talking about because it actually makes you legitimately hard to see. 

 

Also, Haven isn't a run and gun map at all. Every pro gameplay I've seen is mid paced with occasional standoffy moments. Comparing it to Warlock is just nonsensical.

 

It isn't super slow by any means, but calling it a run and gun map is just false outside of randoms with bad kids.

 

"Marginally" is quite the understatement when you're comparing tube TVs from that time to the monitors of today. You could easily move around from a distance on HeH and Damnation, and even Prisoner to an extent without being caught. The ability to do so made crossing maps and breaking set-ups much more viable.

 

I didn't say Haven was a "run and gun map", I said it was an one of several "maps that favor run-and-gun". Very different, although some might just try to argue it's "semantics", but it really isn't. I compared it to Warlock because the designs encourage run-and-gun, which also extends to the acquiring of power weapons and power-ups. On maps like those, you fight frantically, obtain an item, and immediately try to get results, which is why OS is more favorable as a pickup. On the other group of maps, you obtain items and attack with them in a more organized manner, which favors Camo.

 

Compare how Camo is obtained and utilized on a map like Construct or Damnation, and compare that to the way Camo is obtained on Warlock and the way it would be on Haven. Very different gameplay styles. That's why OS is better in that latter group - OS guarantees aggression from both teams. Camo guarantees aggression only from the team with Camo. It's complimentary.

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Re: Slayer gametypes - I'd rather just see Halo follow other team based shooters and phase Slayer out completely. Aside from needing it to keep tournaments on schedule I don't see what benefits it has in 4v4 over any objective gametype. Most people consider Slayer gametypes to be more "flukey" than objectives, and it is often the case that a less well organised team will take a Slayer game from a team that it would lose all or most objectives to.

 

Halo is unique in that it's "Deathmatch" still contains elements that are akin to objectives, like obtaining  power weapons / power-ups and controlling static power positions. Games with similar elements often use Deathmatch in team settings, such as Quake.

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Halo is unique in that it's "Deathmatch" still contains elements that are akin to objectives, like obtaining  power weapons / power-ups and controlling static power positions. Games with similar elements often use Deathmatch in team settings, such as Quake.

 

I get that, I just struggle to see why almost half of the gametypes should be Slayer/TDM when it could be argued as being the gametype with the least depth, especially since the Quake comparison breaks down as soon as a map without any notable power weapon or powerups is played and the timers are so long that they lead to extended periods in which there is nothing to move for.

 

I could see a much stronger argument for Slayer if it was played mostly on genuinely asymmetric maps with enough powerups and power weapons on different timers and good power positions, instead we've been stuck with what feels like a lot of either small symmetrical atrium maps or bigger symmetrical maps with a lot of LoS blocking geometry. I just feel it could be so much better with different maps, yet we're settling for it just because it's traditional to do so.

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