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V5 Discussion Thread

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No offense but Vertigo is the worst map in v5.

Kind of disappointing that such a lackluster map is chosen over other disc maps or forge maps.

 

And why was Skyline TS taken out?

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I agree with whoever said that it makes no sense to have both Onyx and Simplex. Their names even sound the same. lol But seriously, does anyone actually think Simplex is better than Onyx? Onyx is the same format, but it has more movement options going up to and on top of the towers, and everything is stretched upwards so that there is a more dynamic height advantage at different points in the map instead of just pink/gold height vs. top mid/base height vs. floor.

Honestly, I think Simplex is better. Onyx is good in a lot of ways, but there's almost too many routes to power positions. If we think back to the better maps of the past titles you will see a trend of maps that have ACTUAL POWER POSITIONS, that require coordination and skill to take. Now, with most maps in Halo 4, we have "power positions" that can be taken by one person off spawn due to the amount of routes up, and the cover available.

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Honestly, I think Simplex is better. Onyx is good in a lot of ways, but there's almost too many routes to power positions. If we think back to the better maps of the past titles you will see a trend of maps that have ACTUAL POWER POSITIONS, that require coordination and skill to take. Now, with most maps in Halo 4, we have "power positions" that can be taken by one person off spawn due to the amount of routes up, and the cover available.

 

There's two ramps to top gold and the top mid bridge. If someone actually successfully pushed mid to gold and doesn't die, he deserves top gold control. So basically, there's two routes up there. So, yeah

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There's two ramps to top gold and the top mid bridge. If someone actually successfully pushed mid to gold and doesn't die, he deserves top gold control. So basically, there's two routes up there. So, yeah

2 physical ramps up, a basement, 2 open areas with cover, cover on top mid, and top gold is huge, with plenty of room to get team shot. That isn't a power position, it's a height advantage.

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2 physical ramps up, a basement, 2 open areas with cover, cover on top mid, and top gold is huge, with plenty of room to get team shot. That isn't a power position, it's a height advantage.

I'm not sure about that. At least in the games (slayer) I've played, the team that's winning is controlling gold. 

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My quick rant review of V5 inside.

 

Team Slayer
Abandon-OK
Haven-OK
Onyx- Midship #1
Pitfall-Is this for real? Do we really have to go through the constant cycle of trying things that don't work?
Vertigo-Meh

 

Capture The Flag
Simplex-Midship #2
Skyline-OK

 

Extraction
Haven-OK
Station 9- So basically, the map made of narrow tubes that emphasize how inconsistent the BR is, is Throwdown material? K

 

Ricochet
Pitfall-OK
Simplex-Really, remove Simplex or Onyx.

 

 

My V5:

Team Slayer
Abandon
Haven
Simplex
Skyline
Vertigo

 

Capture The Flag
Simplex
Pitfall

 

Extraction
Haven
(Forge Map?,Monolith?)

 

Ricochet
(Forge Map?)
Skyline

 

Only two open slots, and what I feel like is an overall better pool. Also, please, at least swap Skyline CTF and Pitfall Slayer.

 

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I'm not sure about that. At least in the games (slayer) I've played, the team that's winning is controlling gold.

Well of course. I'm not saying it's not a valuable position at all. But it isn't as powerful a position it should be in an arena map. I'm speaking in generalization of the maps we have in regards to past maps in saying that power positions aren't powerful by comparison.

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On vertigo i don't like the fact that you can reach the top of the big tower (the one near the ravine) from bottom tower just using a man cannon.

Sorry accidental downvote, will upvote another post of yours.

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This is what I wanted for v5 (keeping in mind that I made this list within the 5 TS / 2 CTF / 2 EXT / 2 RIC set):
 
TS: Haven, Skyline, Abandon, Vertigo, Simplex
CTF: Pitfall, Simplex
EXT: Haven, Vertigo
RIC: Pitfall, Skyline
 
Was on the edge between Vertigo / Onyx TS and Vertigo / The Ark EXT.

 

 

 

I felt the same, however I was on the edge about Pitfall CTF and not using Skyline CTF, and I also preferred S9.

 

I also made one last attempt to convince Ghost to use 3 CTF and 3 EXT

 

TS: Haven, Onyx, Abandon, Pitfall, Skyline

CTF: Skyline, Pitfall, Simplex

EXT: Haven, S9, Vertigo/Abandon

 

However, Ghost and the others made some interesting points towards Ricochet's inclusion. In the end, I agreed that it deserves one complete run at being a competitive gametype. It isn't the worst selection competitive Halo has ever seen, and it will be an interesting and competitive experience at AGL10. That is the reason I feel it is being included.

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I felt the same, however I was on the edge about Pitfall CTF and not using Skyline CTF, and I also preferred S9.

 

I also made one last attempt to convince Ghost to use 3 CTF and 3 EXT

 

TS: Haven, Onyx, Abandon, Pitfall, Skyline

CTF: Skyline, Pitfall, Simplex

EXT: Haven, S9, Vertigo/Abandon

 

However, Ghost and the others made some interesting points towards Ricochet's inclusion. In the end, I agreed that it deserves one complete run at being a competitive gametype. It isn't the worst selection competitive Halo has ever seen, and it will be an interesting and competitive experience at AGL10. That is the reason I feel it is being included.

And that's the point that Neighbor made in a discussion earlier that swayed my opinion a bit. The fact that we have seen bigger changes and dealt before, and this kind of stuff has happened since Halo 2. I suppose we won't ever know if it is a viable gametype until it has been used in a tournament setting, so let it run it's course.

 

But the backlash will be ******** if things don't go well, and I'm a little worried about that.

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And that's the point that Neighbor made in a discussion earlier that swayed my opinion a bit. The fact that we have seen bigger changes and dealt before, and this kind of stuff has happened since Halo 2. I suppose we won't ever know if it is a viable gametype until it has been used in a tournament setting, so let it run it's course.

 

But the backlash will be ******** if things don't go well, and I'm a little worried about that.

 

My current thought process is: We gave Extraction a chance, let's give Ricochet a chance. It's designed to be competitive at its core. 

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My current thought process is: We gave Extraction a chance, let's give Ricochet a chance. It's designed to be competitive at its core. 

I don't remember people thinking extraction was a bad idea. 

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I see no reason why Ricochet can't get at least tested for one major tournament. It's just unfortunate that it happens to be Nationals. Really a National title should be decided on settings that have been used for multi events. But nothing we can do about that now.

I think it will be pretty good when real people are playing it hard for real $. Mite make some people have a change of heart even.

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I don't remember people thinking extraction was a bad idea. 

 

It was actually quite controversial during the T1-4 testing.

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Amen to this. Having 1378920 routes to the main power position on the map is foolish. Remove the lift to top big tower and it will be infinitely better.

 

 

Also, we removed 4 gametypes and got 4 gametypes.

 

Removed:

Adrift CTF

Dispatch CTF

Skyline TS

Simplex TS

 

Added:

Vertigo TS

Pitfall TS

Pitfall Ricochet

Simplex Ricochet.

 

Looking at it like this, I'll take Ricochet over Adrift and Dispatch any day.  I agree that there are better options than Ricochet, but Adrift and Dispatch CTF ruined my playing experience in Throwdown during v4 so I'm happy overall.

 

aPK and I were both persistent towards keeping Skyline, the awesome hyper-pace slayer, but community feedback towards Asym Slayers put Vertigo in. 

 

Simplex was obviously removed for Pit because it was an Onyx-Midship Clone

 

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I don't remember people thinking extraction was a bad idea. 

 

There were plenty of people who thought extraction was a bad idea. 

 

That is why they changed it to have only one plot. That way it would basically just be King of the Hill rather than it's own gametype. 

 

People only accepted it when it was turned into KOTH.

 

The fact is that people in this community won't give a gametype a chance unless it is close to something that existed in Halo 3. If it didn't exist in Halo 3, or if it can't be made similar to Halo 3, then it is bad. 

 

Changing Extraction to 1-plot rather than testing 2-plot proved this to be true. 

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It was actually quite controversial during the T1-4 testing.

 

It was only controversial because some wanted 1 plot and some wanted 2 plot, no one ever thought extraction was designed for action sack.

 

 

My current thought process is: We gave Extraction a chance, let's give Ricochet a chance. It's designed to be competitive at its core. 

 
 

Please don't try to justify using Ricochet by comparing it to a gametype that is actually competitive when Ricochet is Halo's version of football. 

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It was only controversial because some wanted 1 plot and some wanted 2 plot, no one ever thought extraction was designed for action sack. Please don't compare the competitive merits between a gametype that is actually competitive and one that is Halo's version of football.

 

Just because the gametype is designed like a sports game, doesn't mean it belongs in Action Sack. 

 

What matters is if it is designed with competitive merit in mind, Ricochet most certainly was.

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Just because the gametype is designed like a sports game, doesn't mean it belongs in Action Sack. 

 

What matters is if it is designed with competitive merit in mind, Ricochet most certainly was.

 

Grifball is designed first and foremost to be a competitive game type. Why don't we test that as well? Maybe we can bring in some of their community to give throwdown a boost.

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There were plenty of people who thought extraction was a bad idea.

 

That is why they changed it to have only one plot. That way it would basically just be King of the Hill rather than it's own gametype.

 

People only accepted it when it was turned into KOTH.

 

The fact is that people in this community won't give a gametype a chance unless it is close to something that existed in Halo 3. If it didn't exist in Halo 3, or if it can't be made similar to Halo 3, then it is bad.

 

Changing Extraction to 1-plot rather than testing 2-plot proved this to be true.

Right, because not a single person here played CE or H2.

 

Please don't generalize.

 

The issue between 1 plot and 2 plot, as I saw, was that 2 plot a team could get ahead and camp one plot for the rest of the game while the other team was at a destructive disadvantage in having to defend and offend at once. It didn't have that much to do with the fact that it wasn't KOTH, more so having equal opportunity to win.

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Just because the gametype is designed like a sports game, doesn't mean it belongs in Action Sack.

 

What matters is if it is designed with competitive merit in mind, Ricochet most certainly was.

If I wanted to play a sports game, I would play Madden. Ricochet is great for action sack. It's fun as he'll. but fun isn't necessarily what comes to mind when I'm playing BTH in the finals for money. I could never take ricochet that seriously.

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The issue between 1 plot and 2 plot, as I saw, was that 2 plot a team could get ahead and camp one plot for the rest of the game while the other team was at a destructive disadvantage in having to defend and offend at once. It didn't have that much to do with the fact that it wasn't KOTH, more so having equal opportunity to win.

 

And that strat never worked....ever. Some of the best games I played was 2 plot on Abandon with the plots being Top Gold, Tree and Purple. Teams/Players that tried to camp one plot got raped...easily. By camping one plot you risk giving up map control, power weapons and the other two plots. Genius strat that went nowhere and it was the biggest excuse for dumbing down Extraction to 1 plot so it could become KoTH. 

 

I also heard that 2 plot was too difficult for players because they had to focus on so much at once....awww, poor babies, go get a coach. Halo shouldn't be so hard for them.

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Right, because not a single person here played CE or H2.

 

Please don't generalize.

 

The issue between 1 plot and 2 plot, as I saw, was that 2 plot a team could get ahead and camp one plot for the rest of the game while the other team was at a destructive disadvantage in having to defend and offend at once. It didn't have that much to do with the fact that it wasn't KOTH, more so having equal opportunity to win.

 

The H3 comment was based on the fact that a large percentage of this forum bases their gameplay opinions off of what MLG Halo 3 was like. 

 

As for the second part:

 

Please link me a gameplay where that strategy actually worked against any team that wasn't ********, because I have never seen that strat work in a game that has even remotely even teams. Sure you can do it against a really bad team, but you can also just 5-0 them.

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What matters is if it is designed with competitive merit in mind, Ricochet most certainly was.

 

And 343 said a long time ago that their disc maps were designed with competitive in mind.

 

We are using 8 maps for 11 gametypes in Throwdown, and only 2 of those maps are original disc maps.

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