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V5 Discussion Thread

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What happened to skyline ric?

Was it taken out because one team had an advantage with playing the ball from their base?

I thought it was in 100%

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And with this the last spark of hope for the competive community in Halo  is lost on me. 

 

 

Not bothering to watch AGL, feel bad for everyone who wanted to attend it.

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Looks like v5 has a little bit of everything to make sure as many people are upset as possible. 

 

Or he put in/kept gametypes and maps that different segments of the community wanted (station 9, vertigo, ricochet). I'm not arguing for or against any of these gametypes, but there was no way for Ghost to appease everyone.

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So does anyone know how Vertigo plays? I'm not really enthused that it's been added, but whatever.

 

I'm trying to be open about Ricochet being added, but it's hard to think that'll be in tournament play for long.  

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Okay, I have some very real concerns with Simplex Ricochet. 

 

Red team has a severe advantage on that map. There are three reasons:

 

1) The ramps leading up to the goal at the bottom bases are not completely flat on blue side. This makes the ball bounce to the left if thrown, making it much harder to score on the blue goal down there. Blue side is much more flat and the ball will always bounce mostly straight, making scoring much easier. 

 

2) From purple, it is possible to bank the ball of a 2x4 piece and it will always roll down the ramp and score. Since the bases are inverted, it is impossible on the other side. The other side can do it for gold, but the throw is much harder and getting the gold ball is harder as well. 

 

3) It is easier to run in on from purple due to the inverse bases. The ramp is closer. 

 

 

Simplex is too asymmetric for Ricochet. It also isn't forged well enough that if the bases were normal, there would still be problems (such as #1)

 

If you don't believe the things I said, test them yourself. One side has a very notable advantage. 

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Oh look.  Everyone is being emotional again...

 

Honestly nothing this trivial should have any kind of effect on this community after what we've been through to get here.  Ricochet will be fine, people just have to warm up to it.  I would like more sniper maps, namely in CTF, but overall it looks pretty good.   I also really wanna see the Vertigo meta develop.

 

Game's only dead when we give up.  It would be a shame to give up now just because we are a little picky.

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So does anyone know how Vertigo plays? I'm not really enthused that it's been added, but whatever.

 

I'm trying to be open about Ricochet being added, but it's hard to think that'll be in tournament play for long.  

 

It's good enough as long as he blocked the EMP bullshit. 

 

Gameplay will probably be kind of slow though since it is tower vs tower gameplay and the BR isn't strong enough at range to be able to pick people off and start a push. The glass at the small tower won't help this at all. It will have the same problem that Lockout and Guardian did at a high level.

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I was watching Absolutely's stream when he was playing with Ghost yesterday and Vertigo actually looked pretty good.

 

There is an OS that spawns in the cave, so they had to push for that. There's also rockets, so they have to push for those as well. Very little of the action took place on top of the bases actually and there were a lot of 1v1's which is something that we don't see much in competitive Halo 4.

 

I didn't see any ricochet scrims though. As soon as one gets filmed someone should post it up here so we can all see it for ourselves. 

 

 

...or everyone could just bash it and claim to boycott the next AGL without even watching/playing it.

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V.. v.... v....... Vertigo?

 

That was a...... surprise? I will be interested to see how it works, sure I have never played, but it's not one that comes to the top of my head when it comes to competitive maps.

 

Although I must admit, Skyline be replaced by Simplex for Ricochet was my biggest surprise, I thought Skyline Ricochet was a lock and developer made maps were better?

 

And do we seriously not have any replacement for Station 9? I have the unpopular opinion of enjoying both Dispatch and Station 9, but I can understand why people wanted them out, I know you don't always have to listen to community requests but alot of people wanted Station 9 gone.

 

(but well done on getting rid of Dispatch though). 

 

Plus I was surprised not to see Onyx CTF in there, I know alot of community members actually wanted it, it would of been great fun to watch in my opinion.

 

Despite my problems I am very much looking forward to seeing how this plays out at the next AGL, Pit Ricochet looks like it's going to be a blast.

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It's good enough as long as he blocked the EMP bullshit. 

 

Gameplay will probably be kind of slow though since it is tower vs tower gameplay and the BR isn't strong enough at range to be able to pick people off and start a push. The glass at the small tower won't help this at all. It will have the same problem that Lockout and Guardian did at a high level.

 

Yeah if the EMP is blocked, I'll be okay. I remember playing it, and I thought there were multiple ways to flank the towers. I couldn't tell if this was a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, I'll be surprised how all these new gametypes will be played.

 

On a serious note; why not Skyline Ricochet, instead of Simplex. I heard it was actually a "fun" gametype.

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Yeah if the EMP is blocked, I'll be okay. I remember playing it, and I thought there were multiple ways to flank the towers. I couldn't tell if this was a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, I'll be surprised how all these new gametypes will be played.

 

On a serious note; why not Skyline Ricochet, instead of Simplex. I heard it was actually a "fun" gametype.

 

Skyline was asymmetric because it is easy to play ball on one side, but not the other.

 

You would either have to forge a wall on open side, or you would have to add a soft kill right up against the wall on closed side so that someone throwing it up against the wall could playball. 

 

Really, the only maps suitable for Ricochet are true symmetric maps or Inverse symmetric maps. Functionally symmetric maps suffer more than they normally would due to how ricochet depends so heavily on map geometry. It is the most geometry dependent gametype we have ever had. 

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You can easily add base shields onto Skyline to fix the whole asymmetry issue. I went into Forge myself and it took about 5 seconds. Frankly, Skyline is probably the best map H4 has so only having a single gametype on it is really confusing to me.

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If these settings are final then I wont bother watching the next AGL. At least dispatch is gone but i really don't like Onyx and Simplex still being used.

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Overall I like the sound of the v5 gametypes. I'll continue to hold distaste for Station 9, but at least Dispatch & Adrift are gone.

Ricochet sounded great, but menotyou has just pointed out some issues with it on Simplex. Perhaps a solution to that would be to simply re-forge the back of one of the bases (I'd suggest making both ramps be on gold side so as to make that purple side throw more difficult) to make it fully symmetrical and straighten up the small ramp that causes the ball to bounce.

 

Overall I think it's a little improvement from v4, now I just need to start watching serious scrims.

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Ricochet may have just killed whatever shred of competitive Halo that was left.  I can't wait until tournament time when everyone realizes how broken and pathetic that gametype is.  And he kept Station 9?  Dear God, why did we let Ghost make these decisions?

 

Edit: I just saw that Vertigo TS is in the rotation as well.  Well that confirms it, either Ghost was never qualified to do this job from the beginning or he really has very little say in all this and the higher ups at 343i are "influencing" all his decisions.  

 

It's a joke to think he hasn't been directly influenced by 343i ever since Skyline was getting forced down our throats and they continued to keep adrift. Serving 343i is the ends, where creating gametypes has become the means to that ends now. 

 

Obviously there's 3 situations possible here:

1) 343i is directly influencing his decisions. high pressure for DLC.

2) No one played devil's advocate at all, and gametype testing and feedback became a circlejerk.

3) He's indecisive, and decided to try to please everyone because he couldn't say no. 

 

Honestly, it's not even like we can say "yah ghost screwed up, yadayada." He's been given the shittiest deck of cards in the world to play with. TBH tho almost all of his versions aside from v4 weren't very good. v1/v2 was dealing with a shit game, v3 was poor map selection, and v5 has become poor map selection again as well. I think the moment ghostayame turned into 343ayame shit really did start to turn for the worse. We shouldn't be conforming to the game designers, they should conform to us and our needs.

 

I hate this notion of just writing off Halo 4, but for fuck sakes 343i. Why did you ship us a god damn Alpha....

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Skyline was getting forced down our throats

 

continued to keep adrift

 

1) 343i is directly influencing his decisions. high pressure for DLC.

All three of those things are completely unrelated to 343.

 

Team Throwdown is a community based playlist, and Ghost has the final word over the settings that go into it.

 

For one, Skyline is (arguably) the best map we have... there is no reason 343 would need to push it down our throats. Hell, it had 3 gametypes in V3.

 

Adrift had to stay for v1-4 because Ghost didn't have any other solid options for a two sniper map, as well as a non-fps-lag map.

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Vertigo is in and Dispatch is out? Ricochet? what a fucking joke :\

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I'm going to run through all the maps in customs before i give the thumbs up or thumbs down on any of these settings.  Vertigo seems to be most questionable to me.  I enjoy ricochet in mm and have only played it a couple of times in testing v5.  I would like to see an intesnse pro game play to completely make my mind up on it.  Anybody know of any pro gameplay links(full pro teams not random 8's)   

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Yeah if the EMP is blocked, I'll be okay. I remember playing it, and I thought there were multiple ways to flank the towers. I couldn't tell if this was a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, I'll be surprised how all these new gametypes will be played.

 

On a serious note; why not Skyline Ricochet, instead of Simplex. I heard it was actually a "fun" gametype.

There was an imbalance in skyline bc of the open side for one team vs the closed wall side for the other team so one team had a wall to bank the ball off of and the other team didn't. It really imbalanced the gameplay. Simplex is a very solid choice for ricochet imo. 

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