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LeandroTrooper

Why people think Ricochet is Random?

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Throwing the ball or the ball rolling to the score... if you think of it, is not random (imo) and is not a good excuse.

I've seen TONS of good points of 'Why Ricochet should be in v5' and seem very fair to give it a try since it is friendly towards and it is a competitive new gametype that requires teamwork, weapons control and map position. I don't see a good argument why not giving it a chance in v5?

(You can throw the ball from somewhere random and get a score?)
Have you played Default Ricochet in Haven? (not v5) You can score from the other side of the world in matchmaking, but when the other team knows about playing competitive, they won't let that happen.
 

Having matchmaking as Ricochet's example is not a good deal, specially when v5 is totally different when we talk about settings and maps.

 

Throwing the ball in Oddball might not be outstanding, but when this is a new gametype in which you have to be offensive when you have the ball seems a pretty good deal, You can't expect good outcomes (imo) when you can't throw the ball, 2 teammates dead and you see your teammate going inside the base? well screw it cuz you can't throw the ball to him and you have to be defensive cuz half of your team is dad.

Throwing the ball is a nice mechanic in THIS gametype IMO. Specially when you can have some crazy stunts, throws, passes and moments. And the ball rolling towards the score seems seriously exaggerated. People think that when you die 3 miles away from the score, the ball flies and goes super-saiyan to the score and gives a free score to the team. While in reality you have to be like 2 halo-running-steps away from it depending on the map to get a score when you die. 

I would like to know, why some people think Ricochet is random and shouldn't be in v5? I would like to read a healthy discussion about it with good, coherent, arguments. I want to know what's the other side of the gametype. What's the flaws? I'm not pointing fingers and saying you're all wrong. I just gave my opinion and want to know the flaws of this gametype and say: Hmm... you're right!

 

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The reason I am against Ricochet is the omission of the other gametypes. By adding Ricochet, you are saying Skyline Ricochet is better than whatever gametype that will be taken out for it, and I don't believe Ricochet is better than any gametype in v4. 

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Yeah, totally agree. I think some people are just having a kneejerk reaction; e.g. Neighbor simply saying it looked 'stupid' and similar to Grifball. We'll have to see how it plays out at tourney play; I think it will be very exciting to play and watch. 

 

Personally I think there is a ton of meta-game to be developed in the competitive scene. The gametype encourages all kinds of strategies, tactics, and map knowledge IMO.

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Yeah, totally agree. I think some people are just having a kneejerk reaction; e.g. Neighbor simply saying it looked 'stupid' and similar to Grifball. We'll have to see how it plays out at tourney play; I think it will be very exciting to play and watch. 

 

Personally I think there is a ton of meta-game to be developed in the competitive scene. The gametype encourages all kinds of strategies, tactics, and map knowledge IMO.

Personally we shouldn't always follow what Pros says. Its their opinion, and it takes some thinking if they have solid arguments, looking like Grifball is not bad, specially when Grifball has their own league. Until some solid irrefutable argument comes in the topic and is discussed I dont see why we shouldn't have it in v5. I wanna know more than "it looks stupid"

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Personally we shouldn't always follow what Pros says. Its their opinion, and it takes some thinking if they have solid arguments, looking like Grifball is not bad, specially when Grifball has their own league. Until some solid irrefutable argument comes in the topic and is discussed I dont see why we shouldn't have it in v5. I wanna know more than "it looks stupid"

Exactly, a lot of people will just parrot whatever someone like Lxthul or Gandhi says instead of thinking for themselves. The pro's aren't always right. We just have to try it out and see.

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The only thing I hate, and the same goes for oddball, is how far the ball gets blasted by explosions. 1 grenade or rocket will send it FLYING, iirc in reach, they took out oddball because it rolled too much, the two aren't even comparable in terms of physics and how wild the ball is in h4. Other than that, its just a worse version of assault which is fine by me since we don't have neutral bomb. 

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The only thing I hate, and the same goes for oddball, is how far the ball gets blasted by explosions. 1 grenade or rocket will send it FLYING, iirc in reach, they took out oddball because it rolled too much, the two aren't even comparable in terms of physics. Other than that, its just a worse version of assault which is fine by me since we don't have neutral bomb.

 

Why do people say it's a version of assault. This and assault are two totally different game types, I wish people could see the mental game in this game type instead of just writing it off

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Why do people say it's a version of assault. This and assault are two totally different game types, I wish people could see the mental game in this game type instead of just writing it off

Because youre putting a neutral bomb in the enemy goal... only difference is you dont arm it, can throw it in and the scoring is different

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ricochet is nothing like griffball lol

 

this game type is neutral bomb, with faster bomb holder movement speed, and the ability to pass the 'bomb' around, making for a much faster paced gametype (which fits well with fast paced sprint always on reach)

 

i think the gametype is a lot of fun. kinda frustrating to play alone though because idiots dont understand the rules

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Because youre putting a neutral bomb in the enemy goal... only difference is you dont arm it, can throw it in and the scoring is different

 

I guess when you compare the very basics, you're right. But I think the meta will be way different. 1 step back, 2 steps forward

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I guess when you compare the very basics, you're right. But I think the meta will be way different. 1 step back, 2 steps forward

In that logic, it would be the same if we have neutral flag  :apk:

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In that logic, it would be the same if we have neutral flag  :apk:

 

I have no idea what you mean :/

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All gametypes that involve either bringing something back to your own base or taking something to the other team's base are exactly the same as CTF or Assault, regardless of their specific incarnation.

 

And go figure, CTF was ruined by flagnum and Assault doesn't exist.

 

Thanks, Obama.

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All gametypes that involve either bringing something back to your own base or taking something to the other team's base are exactly the same as CTF or Assault, regardless of their specific incarnation.

 

And go figure, CTF was ruined by flagnum and Assault doesn't exist.

 

Thanks, Obama.

I miss the days when Assault and CTF were the same gametype.

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And go figure, CTF was ruined by flagnum and Assault doesn't exist.

 

Thanks, Obama.

Actually, you dont know how wrong you are ;) im about to release an updated Assault version for Halo 4. It's fixed up from a buddy of mine's version with a few little extras.

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The reason I am against Ricochet is the omission of the other gametypes. By adding Ricochet, you are saying Skyline Ricochet is better than whatever gametype that will be taken out for it, and I don't believe Ricochet is better than any gametype in v4. 

Sir,  beleive that Richochet is better than the H4 CTF and I think I'm not the only one on this.

 

(Also, Adrift is bad)

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ricochet is nothing like griffball lol

 

this game type is neutral bomb, with faster bomb holder movement speed, and the ability to pass the 'bomb' around, making for a much faster paced gametype (which fits well with fast paced sprint always on reach)

 

i think the gametype is a lot of fun. kinda frustrating to play alone though because idiots dont understand the rules

Grifball it's a neutral bomb gametype, the bomb holder has faster movement speed, he can also pass the "bomb" around to teammates, making for a much faster paced gametype. How is this nothing like Grifball? Everything you described about Ricochet, describes Grifball.

 

If Ricochet is in serious consideration to be put into v5, then also consider putting in Grifball as it is basically the same damn thing.

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Grifball it's a neutral bomb gametype, the bomb holder has faster movement speed, he can also pass the "bomb" around to teammates, making for a much faster paced gametype. How is this nothing like Grifball? Everything you described about Ricochet, describes Grifball.

 

If Ricochet is in serious consideration to be put into v5, then also consider putting in Grifball as it is basically the same damn thing.

So I guess you consider loading out with Swords and Hammers on a flat, field like map 'basically the same' as loading out with BRs and attaining power weapons and positions on a multi-level map with buildings and bases?

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Grifball it's a neutral bomb gametype, the bomb holder has faster movement speed, he can also pass the "bomb" around to teammates, making for a much faster paced gametype. How is this nothing like Grifball? Everything you described about Ricochet, describes Grifball.

 

If Ricochet is in serious consideration to be put into v5, then also consider putting in Grifball as it is basically the same damn thing.

Nop, you can't have v5 settings in Grifball while you can customize the crap out of Ricochet. Besides, Grifball is a fast-passed gametype compared to Ricochet, for some reason you can score 5 goals in a row against almost any team very quickly while in Ricochet if you do that against a competitive team you won't have the same luck. I agree that Ricochet has some elements from Grifball, but still is not a good excuse to not put Ricochet in v5. While Grifball has several things that pushed the production of a competitive setting back and not forward, such as cannot pick up weapons in the map, no timer in the ball, etc.

 

Ricochet is more of like Competitive Grifball, which can be applied to competitive maps instead of forged maps, can change most of the settings, and can have different updates such as spawns, weapon-wise, etc.

 

Grifball can be v5? MEH. Grifball has always been Hammer/Sword, take the ball, score. If we change it I believe is like a kick into Rooster teeth's balls and won't work out as competitive as we want it to be. While in Ricochet you have a variety of possibilities of exploring the updates. (spawns, weapons, etc) and is competitive.

 

Again, saying it looks like Grifball, making excuses because of the throwing mechanism and ball rolling hasn't convinced me that Ricochet is random and why we shouldn't have it. I wanna know moar!

 

 

So I guess you consider loading out with Swords and Hammers on a flat, field like map 'basically the same' as loading out with BRs and attaining power weapons and positions on a multi-level map with buildings and bases?

 

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Here's a video trying to explain why I think Ricochet can be good and competitive:

 

 

 

Also, here's a block of text:

 

I think that when formal streamed ricochet, it was a bunch of people not having any clue about how to play. I mean, in low level CTF, you have people that just rush flag 24/7 and obviously, competitive teams don't play it like that. I feel like when competitive teams learn how to play the game type, it won't be a bunch of rushing and trying to get a throwing goal. All it takes is that one team to stomp doing something different and everyone else will join in, see Ambush flag.

 

As for scoring, think of it like football. 3 points for a field goal = 20 for throw and 7 for a touchdown = 50 for a walk in. The better slaying team (better offense in football), will score 4-5 touchdowns for 200-250 points while the worse offensive team could get it to the 40 and kick (throw) a field goal. The worst slaying team can get some field goals, say even 6 field goals, that's only 120 points. You'd have to throw in 10 times to equal the 4 touchdowns by the better team, and if the better team lets you throw it in 10 times without getting at least throw in themselves, I don't think they are the better team or deserve to win.

 

For the teamwork, I think when people learn how to play, keeping control of the ball will be very important. Instead of intercepting a goal attempt and just chucking it as far as you can, I think people will learn to instead throw it to a teammate to keep it out of the other team's possession. If the other team doesn't have the ball, they can't score. Rotating the ball around looking for an opening in the other team's defense will be big as well, think soccer on this. Sometimes in order to move forward, you'll have to move back, a completely new concept in Halo and one that teams are going to have a really hard time with. Setups will become very important, defensively a little more so than offensively. If you're playing defense, you want to be in a position where you can entice a throw, but move to intercept it, kinda like a good corner back in football does. 

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While Grifball has several things that pushed the production of a competitive setting back and not forward, such as cannot pick up weapons in the map, no timer in the ball, etc.

 

But that's by design. That's the very nature of Grifball. There aren't supposed to be weapons on the map or anything of the sort. Smash enemies, score goals.

 

 

Ricochet is more of like Competitive Grifball, which can be applied to competitive maps instead of forged maps, can change most of the settings, and can have different updates such as spawns, weapon-wise, etc.

 

 

Implying that Grifball itself is never competitive. The Grifball playlist currently has Grifball Pro which is very similar in nature to what the leagues play on. This is not a continuous round gametype but is one where the rounds end after a score.

 

For what it's worth, I can tell you that the Grifball community has thoroughly embraced Ricochet and the options made available in both normal Ricochet and Multi Team Ricochet.

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Ricochet is too good. Being able to score from weird places is random? Give me a break. Stop slaying and watch the ball. Not hard to stop a ball that's sailing through the air if you're paying attention to what's going on in the game. I can't count the number of times I've stopped balls from weird angles - it's not difficult.. just different gameplay. I think my point here is that people need to stop bitching because the game has a different dynamic. Taking out throwing the ball just makes it Neutral Assault, does anyone realize this?

 

Edit: This comes off as anti-competitive. Not so - I just really hate the idea that the game can't change in order to stay competitive.

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