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LeandroTrooper

Why people think Ricochet is Random?

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Playlist population really has nothing to do with what makes a gametype competitive:

 

In Halo 3, SWAT, Action Sack, and BTB would often have more players than Team Throwback and MLG.

 

In Halo Reach, BTB, Infection, Grifball, and several other playlists had more players than v7 MLG.

 

In Halo 4, BTB, SWAT, Flood, Snipers, Action Sack, Dominion, Infinity Slayer, and Grifball all have/had a higher population than Team Throwdown.

 

Higher population does not equal more competitive.  

Means more fun perhaps? Idk, people play more BTB which is Halo 4's core experiencie (loadouts, random ordnance, etc) while Throwdown has a lot less people while it have "Close to Halo's core Experience"

 

 

 

Also, I've seen a couple guys neg rep Loch for every comment he makes, even when he asks something such as: 

 

 

So you just want Neutral Assault then?

Isn't that a bit unfair/weird because he's just having an opinion? Not everyone in the community agrees with what Lemon says/does. Everytime he disagree with him, boom neg rep. 

 

Again, I wouldn't mind testing Ricochet in v5. Seems really unfair for such a fun, competitive and friendly-viewer. That comment of being random, doesn't help at all with my taste towards Ricochet.

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I will withhold my judgement on Ricochet until pro teams scrim it. Competitive gametypes have come and gone because pro players have learned how to exploit the mechanics of each failed gametype. We will see if Ricochet can make it after that.

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So you just want Neutral Assault then?

 

What the hell, when did I ever say I wanted Neutral Assault.. at this point I believe you are simply injuring your own arguments, and attacking things like Team Throwdown and its population when the whole games population cant reach 30k anymore is especially sketchy. As a member of the AGL Staff, you should really know better and I would expect better from a member of AGL, all these snide and immature remarks from you is simply damaging toward AGL itself.

 

I offered a simple solution as to how to make Ricochet better as a game-type and something that is close to our other Objective game-types in how the game-play is balanced and more suited for strategy and intelligent team work. This solution was instead of allowing something so random as Throw-In, Roll-In scores be allowed to determine a games outcome, we instead keep with Halo's past Objective tradition and determine scores by Walk-In scoring instead of Throw-In scoring.

 

I also never mentioned not including the Throwing/Passing Mechanic, I am fine with the ability to throw the ball and that alone sets the game-type far from something of the nature of Assault. I am however not fine with Throwing/Rolling the ball into the goal for a easy score, and that is the random part of Ricochet that needs to be taken away to allow the games to be much more balanced and strategic.

 

How that is saying I want a exact copy of Neutral Assault.. I have no idea, and I do not think you do either, you clearly did not read a word I wrote in that post. If you simply have nothing to add to the discussion of improving Ricochet for balanced competition yourself then your continued immature statements and attacks are not wanted or needed anymore and are simply hurting AGL's own reputation instead.

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Being able to score when you don't have to actually take the objective - the enemy base - is nowhere near as skillful as having to actually get INTO the base, surrounded by enemy spawns, and hold the fort down for 5-10 seconds. 

 

You're ignoring the fact that in Assault the bomb carrier was hidden, while in Ricochet you have an indicator over your head. It would have been a LOT more difficult to get into their base with the bomb if they know exactly where you are. I think it's also worth noting that most Assault games were extremely low scoring which can introduce more variance. It was entirely possible for the better team to almost arm the bomb 10 times and then the other team arms it on their first try and wins. Sure, that is the other team's fault for letting it happen, but at the same time a gametype that rewards consistency in setups and execution is typically better at demonstrating a skill gap than a gametype where you only have to play amazing for 1 minute to win even if the other team plays better the rest of the game.

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 a gametype that rewards consistency in setups and execution is typically better at demonstrating a skill gap than a gametype where you only have to play amazing for 1 minute to win even if the other team plays better the rest of the game.

 

You could say the same thing about CTF

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What the hell, when did I ever say I wanted Neutral Assault.. at this point I believe you are simply injuring your own arguments, and attacking things like Team Throwdown and its population when the whole games population cant reach 30k anymore is especially sketchy. As a member of the AGL Staff, you should really know better and I would expect better from a member of AGL, all these snide and immature remarks from you is simply damaging toward AGL itself.

His opinions and comments are his own and do not reflect AGL's in any way. No point in calling out AGL for his opinion.

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His opinions and comments are his own and do not reflect AGL's in any way. No point in calling out AGL for his opinion.

Agreed, is like for example: Saucey making his own opinion about Ricochet or whatever topic, and we call out the entire BE crew. Everyone has their own opinion with different types of arguments.

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His opinions and comments are his own and do not reflect AGL's in any way. No point in calling out AGL for his opinion.

 

It just reflects badly on AGL due to his Member I.D. stating he is a member of the AGL Staff. For a company and league who wants to be taken more seriously when it comes to knowing Halo and how to improve viewership you would expect them to want their Staff to be more mature on a Halo Community Forum. All anyone will end up seeing when looking at his Member I.D. is AGL, and he should know better than to act such a way honestly, at the least reading someones opinion and statement beforehand would do him wonders.

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I will withhold my judgement on Ricochet until pro teams scrim it. Competitive gametypes have come and gone because pro players have learned how to exploit the mechanics of each failed gametype. We will see if Ricochet can make it after that.

inb4 they figure out nading the ball with just about anything explosive will send it into another universe.

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You could say the same thing about CTF

 

I totally would say that same thing about CTF if it got to the point where capping was ridiculously hard. However, even 3-flag gametypes on the larger maps tend to favor the team that caps quickly and efficiently. Pulling a flag from the opponent's base is much easier than planting a bomb in their base, and that's reflected in match scores. Very few CTF games go to overtime, and the few that do usually have at least a couple of caps. 0-0 stalemates are very uncommon, even with two high level teams with relatively strong defenses and weak offenses.

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It just reflects badly on AGL due to his Member I.D. stating he is a member of the AGL Staff. For a company and league who wants to be taken more seriously when it comes to knowing Halo and how to improve viewership you would expect them to want their Staff to be more mature on a Halo Community Forum. All anyone will end up seeing when looking at his Member I.D. is AGL, and he should know better than to act such a way honestly, at the least reading someones opinion and statement beforehand would do him wonders.

I'm Beyonds Senior Office Janitor, and my opinions shouldn affect them  :kappa: 

Either way, everyone has their opinion. For example, religious people versus non-religious people. Both have their own opinion with different arguments. We should respect each other. C'mon brah. :)

 

 

 

I totally would say that same thing about CTF if it got to the point where capping was ridiculously hard. However, even 3-flag gametypes on the larger maps tend to favor the team that caps quickly and efficiently. Pulling a flag from the opponent's base is much easier than planting a bomb in their base, and that's reflected in match scores. Very few CTF games go to overtime, and the few that do usually have at least a couple of caps. 0-0 stalemates are very uncommon, even with two high level teams with relatively strong defenses and weak offenses.

Wouldn't be nice if we have neutral flag? Would be harder? easier? more competitive? more hardcore? what's your opinion? 

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I'm Beyonds Senior Office Janitor, and my opinions shouldn affect them  :kappa: 

Either way, everyone has their opinion. For example, religious people versus non-religious people. Both have their own opinion with different arguments. We should respect each other. C'mon brah. :)

 

 

 

Wouldn't be nice if we have neutral flag? Would be harder? easier? more competitive? more hardcore? what's your opinion? 

 

I think neutral flag would just be way too easy. Instead of having to control mid and then penetrate the enemy's base, you only have to gain control of mid. Sometimes you don't even have to gain control. I'm sure on plenty of maps you could get a cap by sneaking in for a pull and then just having your teammates lay down cover fire on the best lines of sight to take out the flag guy. This problem is often exacerbated by the fact that maps tend to have a natural wall (either a physical barrier or dead space) between both teams. Sanc, Pit, Beaver Creek, Lockout, etc. are all situated such that it's very easy to GET to the middle, but very difficult to push PAST the middle.

 

You could try something weird by making a sort of triangle system. Taking Pit, for example, you could put the flag in runway and the flag cap spots in each Mauler and then watch teams try to stop each other. But anyone who thinks for a second will probably just envision the flag guys constantly running through their own pit or flag area while their teammate nades long, green, and training. It would probably make for a very one-dimensional and boring gametype.

 

You could always slow the flag guy down and keep an indicator over his head to make it harder to cap, but I think you will ultimately be playing an unbalanced gametype where the team that is technically on offense (trying to cap) has the easier job, and the team on defense is actually playing offensively. I actually wrote about this on a different website, but humans naturally perceive goals as challenging things to be accomplished. It's very disconcerting to play a game where failing to achieve the objective/goal is the exception and it is simply expected that you score for every attempt. It's just a very unbalanced competitive system, and the way it appears to be a sort of natural law as opposed to some artificial, human-made thing is pretty interesting to me. I'm curious about whether there is some objective, mathematical constant that achieves the best balance between success and failure, or at least a ratio that is most appealing to humans. Does flag feel the "best" to players when pulling the flag has a 75% success rate? 25%? Or perhaps a 50% success rate? What personality traits can be associated with different levels of preferred difficulty? Just off the cuff, I'd hypothesize that people who prefer harder objective gametypes are probably more likely to achieve more in life (how successful do you consider yourself, Lemon? lol). So many interesting questions, but I'm just rambling at this point. lol

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Can someone explain why throwing the ball into the goal is random? Last time I checked, you're left trigger didn't pull itself (unless you need a new controller :/ )

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Can someone explain why throwing the ball into the goal is random? Last time I checked, you're left trigger didn't pull itself (unless you need a new controller :/ )

People complain that you can score "easily" by just throwing the ball, also they think is random because you can "easily" pass the ball to your teammates. It is getting a little bit annoying seeing lots of comments like that when you clearly can see that's not random if you think of it (IMO) Like I said, a map such as Haven where you can easily throw the ball in... is played way different when you play against people who knows what they're doing. You just can't simply think that you can throw the ball and score by miracle specially when the maps are v5, not default matchmaking. Even default matchmaking is fun. 

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All gametypes that involve either bringing something back to your own base or taking something to the other team's base are exactly the same as CTF or Assault, regardless of their specific incarnation.

 

And go figure, CTF was ruined by flagnum and Assault doesn't exist.

 

Thanks, Obama.

 

I don't think I agree with the first half of this statement. The variables of the maps with the gametypes ultimately is what makes them different. 

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People complain that you can score "easily" by just throwing the ball, also they think is random because you can "easily" pass the ball to your teammates. It is getting a little bit annoying seeing lots of comments like that when you clearly can see that's not random if you think of it (IMO) Like I said, a map such as Haven where you can easily throw the ball in... is played way different when you play against people who knows what they're doing. You just can't simply think that you can throw the ball and score by miracle specially when the maps are v5, not default matchmaking. Even default matchmaking is fun. 

 

That's hilarious because in basketball, soccer, and football you can easily pass it to your teammates. The hard part comes from the defenders, or in Ricochet, the people shooting at you AND they can intercept the pass

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That's hilarious because in basketball, soccer, and football you can easily pass it to your teammates. The hard part comes from the defenders, or in Ricochet, the people shooting at you AND they can intercept the pass

Shzlss shut up! You dont know anything about sports or competition! It's so random! Seriously.. shut up!... Wait for it.... Waaaaaait for it....  :kappa: jk

 

Again, people have their own opinion. But still I haven't seen a reason that convinces me that Ricochet is random, and shouldnt be in v5.

Hell, some even say that Ricochet is Grifball's lost brother. While in the other hand, Grifball is competitive in their own leagues/tournaments. Ricochet might have some shared features from Grifball, but I dont see it as a bad thing, specially when its settings can be changed for our liking. (Throwdown Liking)

 

So.... yeah... I have fun with Ricochet, its competitive and is friendly-viewer... GOOOOOOOOOOAL!  :goat: (imo)

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Im going to assume any new gametype that comes out will always have a group of people that just INSIST that it can be in tourneys, and it HAS TO WORK some how even with tweaks.

 

Guys just let it be, we don't need the gametype and many pros don't like it.

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Im going to assume any new gametype that comes out will always have a group of people that just INSIST that it can be in tourneys, and it HAS TO WORK some how even with tweaks.

 

Guys just let it be, we don't need the gametype and many pros don't like it.

 

And I'm going to assume that there will always be those guys that don't like something just because it's new. If it's not "classic Halo" then it has to go, no matter what competitive merit it may have. These guys will immediately say it'll never work, it's stupid without giving any solid argument as to why it will never work and it is stupid. My recommendation to the community is to ignore those guys and continue to try an innovate and improve the game. If it doesn't work, scrap it, but at least test it before you decide to throw it out.

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Oddball-you can throw the ball. KotH-it is still broken. CTF-flagnum. Assault/Neutral bomb-doesn't exist. At least the ricochet gametype plays how it should. Last I was seeing throwdown had 200 or so people playing it. The playlist was literally deader than Legendary Slayer, and that was AR starts. So even though I'm not a fan of how competitive ricochet, I still say at this point why not? What have we got to lose? 

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 It was entirely possible for the better team to almost arm the bomb 10 times and then the other team arms it on their first try and wins

 

That makes no sense and you know it. 

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That makes no sense and you know it.

He's actually right. Happened all the time on Midship. Better team can't close; lesser team gets control back for an instant, and gets fortunate enemy respawns, i.e. 2nd level of Carbine Tower. Easy plant.

 

-Ghost

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And I'm going to assume that there will always be those guys that don't like something just because it's new. If it's not "classic Halo" then it has to go, no matter what competitive merit it may have. These guys will immediately say it'll never work, it's stupid without giving any solid argument as to why it will never work and it is stupid. My recommendation to the community is to ignore those guys and continue to try an innovate and improve the game. If it doesn't work, scrap it, but at least test it before you decide to throw it out.

That's what I'm waiting for. In my eyes is a pretty good gametype. But maybe after the pros test it properly we might see glitches or exploits that cannot be dealt. In that case I would understand that the gametype shouldn't be in Throwdown settings like King of the Hill. But until then, a simple statement of it being "Random" won't convince me a bit. 

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He's actually right. Happened all the time on Midship. Better team can't close; lesser team gets control back for an instant, and gets fortunate enemy respawns, i.e. 2nd level of Carbine Tower. Easy plant.

 

-Ghost

 

The better team is the team that wins. 

 

You can absolutely play a game of Middy bomb the "wrong" way, even if you're a bunch of Mexican gunslingers. 

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