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Could some AAs, Powerups, and Equipment be reworked?

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WAY WAY WAAAAAAY too many pieces of equipment, many of which are pretty overpowered and would just clutter maps trying to use all of them in the game, even with only putting 2 or 3 on map.

There's no problem with having a bagillion possible powerups. We just have to contain power items on map to about five or so - any more, and you've got strong evidence that the map is too big.

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@makeitstop: please read my post; u repeated the same mistake in assuming im suggesting the base game be with fuel-dependent AAs. ur argument is based on the assumption that this mechanic is forced into every playlist and non-optional, and also that because reach had AAs they are bad.

 

im not sure wat ur trying to say either. to clarify, im saying:

-AAs and the like are fun personally. some players like myself enjoy AAs, and halo loses nothing by allowing more people to enjoy the game.

-AAs and the like can be an addition to the sandbox, without damaging the 'core' (a horribly subjective and stupid term, but meh). this can be achieved via custom game options and additional varied playlists.

-though you may think halo isnt and shud never be a class FPS, it already is since the release of reach, and worsened with halo 4. u cant just ignore reach's existence, and exclude it from the halo series because u dont like it.

-fixing AAs is more realistic than expecting them to be gone. i have no problem with a pure arena shooter like CE (which is my favourite halo), but in the (99%) chance that these class shooter elements return, a compromise where AAs are nerfed and still somewhat fit into the philosophy of 'equal starts' is preferrable over full-blown armour lock and shit.

 

@shzlss: sounds like an interesting gametype, but not the standard settings for halo.

 

@drewski: u dont have to neg the guy for brainstorming.

 

Sorry, just think they are bad ideas.

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WAY WAY WAAAAAAY too many pieces of equipment, many of which are pretty overpowered and would just clutter maps trying to use all of them in the game, even with only putting 2 or 3 on map.

There's no problem with having a bagillion possible powerups. We just have to contain power items on map to about five or so - any more, and you've got strong evidence that the map is too big.

 

 

I would rather have a lot of weapons and powerups on map than a bunch of equipment. We dont need that many, we just need a few that are really interesting and can spice things up besides PW and PU. Most of that just seems like clutter to me, sorry

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Nobody is going to complain about "too much stuff in the game" if, unlike the last three Halo games, 95% of it isn't complete and total trash.

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Nobody is going to complain about "too much stuff in the game" if, unlike the last three Halo games, 95% of it isn't complete and total trash.

 

Very true, i just dont know how much i trust them to make equipment thats not overpowered or pointless just for the sake of something new. I dont really care for equipment and AA's anyway and would prefer to see more unique weapons and maybe even powerups over equipment. But if they could make a few pieces of equipment that is balanced i wouldnt be opposed to seeing those on map as well.

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How about this: an ammo box. It would spawn like any other powerup/equipment, and would add a clip of ammo to whoever picks it up, regardless of the weapon. Naturally teams would try to let the holder of power weapons collect it. Picking it up while holding what you spawned with could be a complete waste, or prevent the enemy from refilling their rockets or sniper.

 

Just thought of this, can't really say if it would fit well with the rest of the sandbox.

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Classic powerups on static timers, DB and Speedboost are also viable.

 

OFFENSIVE armor abilities (if movement modifiers like thruster pack or evade, retain the ability to shoot) that can be picked up and come with limited fuel/uses but also alter the appearance of your spartan slightly but noticeably.

 

Stop giving people a thousand ways to escape death, for the love of god.

This is essentially my exact opinion- no defensive aas/equipment that produce stagnant gameplay.

 

Also, it is crucial that the map is not polluted with an overabundance of these "powerups" in the same exact way that it is crucial that maps are not polluted with an overabundance of power weapons.

 

I definitely agree with being able to retain the ability to shoot with the movement modifiers- and it's a point that I don't think I've personally seen brought up before.

 

Being able to see the abilities on your opponent is also crucial- in the same way that you can see a secondary weapon on an opponent.  Once you have eyes on the target- there should be no surprises like a last second evade.

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@makeitstop: please read my post; u repeated the same mistake in assuming im suggesting the base game be with fuel-dependent AAs. ur argument is based on the assumption that this mechanic is forced into every playlist and non-optional, and also that because reach had AAs they are bad.

 

im not sure wat ur trying to say either. to clarify, im saying:

-AAs and the like are fun personally. some players like myself enjoy AAs, and halo loses nothing by allowing more people to enjoy the game.

-AAs and the like can be an addition to the sandbox, without damaging the 'core' (a horribly subjective and stupid term, but meh). this can be achieved via custom game options and additional varied playlists.

-though you may think halo isnt and shud never be a class FPS, it already is since the release of reach, and worsened with halo 4. u cant just ignore reach's existence, and exclude it from the halo series because u dont like it.

-fixing AAs is more realistic than expecting them to be gone. i have no problem with a pure arena shooter like CE (which is my favourite halo), but in the (99%) chance that these class shooter elements return, a compromise where AAs are nerfed and still somewhat fit into the philosophy of 'equal starts' is preferrable over full-blown armour lock and shit.

 

@shzlss: sounds like an interesting gametype, but not the standard settings for halo.

 

@drewski: u dont have to neg the guy for brainstorming.

for future reference, please multiquote the people that you are replying to (and then snip their comments to remove clutter) so that they can know that you are replying to them.

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But what would we use that we haven't already gotten?

 

Camo

Overshield

Damage boost

Invulnerability for 30ish seconds

Unlimited ammo until next death

 

These are the only powerups I can think of thag would actually be worth it.

 

Unlimited ammo until next death + Rocket Launcher = GG

 

I'd actually like Camo and Custom powerups back in Halo 5 and as long as there's no PODs, i'd like Speed/Damage boost on map too, at least in Vanilla Halo 5.

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Halo 4 and Reach are NOT class shooters. They are slow arena shooters with loadouts.

They are class shooters.

 

Class.   You choose different weapons/ armor abilities/ support/tactical packages which makes it a class shooter.  It's just that the roles aren't as pronounced as say, TF2.

 

It is not an arena shooter- everyone does not start on equal footing with the exception of spawn location.

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How about this: an ammo box. It would spawn like any other powerup/equipment, and would add a clip of ammo to whoever picks it up, regardless of the weapon. Naturally teams would try to let the holder of power weapons collect it. Picking it up while holding what you spawned with could be a complete waste, or prevent the enemy from refilling their rockets or sniper.

 

Just thought of this, can't really say if it would fit well with the rest of the sandbox.

Really like this idea.

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What about instead of an ammo box you have actual ammo clips like you find in the campaign in CE laying around? like on ivory tower where you had the rocket pack, but you could have the pistol, AR, sniper clips laying around in certain spots too. Maybe only 1 or 2 clips for power weapons and maybe  afew more laying around for normal guns? Just a thought.

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There is only 1 AA in the game. If you use it, you automatically die, your Xbox melts and turns into a Decepticon and trashes your house.

/Transformers4

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do not like.   This would still make a halo a class shooter- which it is not and should never be.

 

 

I don't understand.

 

As of right now, even Halo 4 is classified as an arena shooter (with loadouts). 

 

One of the things in the game people are disgruntled about is armor abilities. 

 

How would making players have to fight over the resource and ability to utilize said armor abilities make it a 'class shooter'? The only result of this being so, far as I can see, is making the game have a wider skill gap because fuel/resource for ability has to be fought for instead of handed out by the game. 

 

I'm pretty sure it'd still be an arena shooter with loadouts. 

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They are class shooters.

 

Class.   You choose different weapons/ armor abilities/ support/tactical packages which makes it a class shooter.  It's just that the roles aren't as pronounced as say, TF2.

 

It is not an arena shooter- everyone does not start on equal footing with the exception of spawn location.

You are basing the definition on semantic differences, when the actual result does not at all suggest that players enter the game with a marked difference in capabilities.

 

First of all, the ACTUAL definition of a class shooter is a game like Call of Duty where, for example, if you use an LMG, your base speed goes down - conversely, if you use an SMG, your base speed goes up. The difference in Halo is that everyone starts on equal footing, and from there you stack abilities on top of your spartan with no drawbacks. When you compromise certain abilities of your character, that's when it becomes class-based.

 

Shooting a DMR or a BR is not going to change your play style. There's a reason that actual class-based shooters are not run-and-gun.

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Shooting a DMR or a BR is not going to change your play style. There's a reason that actual class-based shooters are not run-and-gun.

 

I disagree with this.  If you are shooting a DMR against a BR you have every reason to keep your distance, and vica-versa.  With the DMR you have more of an advantage in staying back than you do rushing like with the BR.  I specifically use dmr for btb and br for 4v4s because my playstyle is different in the two gametypes.

 

 

I don't understand.

 

As of right now, even Halo 4 is classified as an arena shooter (with loadouts). 

 

One of the things in the game people are disgruntled about is armor abilities. 

 

How would making players have to fight over the resource and ability to utilize said armor abilities make it a 'class shooter'? The only result of this being so, far as I can see, is making the game have a wider skill gap because fuel/resource for ability has to be fought for instead of handed out by the game. 

 

I'm pretty sure it'd still be an arena shooter with loadouts. 

The loadouts are what in my mind make halo no longer an arena shooter but rather a class-based shooter even if the classes are only minor differences.  I do not agree that movement speed has to be changed between classes in order for there to be classes.

 

 

Regardless of the semantics of what "arena" "class" symbolize, the point is as follows:

 

Traditionally in halo every single player started off on the same exact footing with the same exact weapons and had to fight to aquire those powerweapons/powerups/equipment.   No player off of the spawn was different from any other.  That's what I define as "arena".    (the only difference was, of course, spawn location. But that's kind of difficult to work around.)

 

With non-mlg halo reach it became a "class" shooter (by my definition) in that now players are no longer starting the exact same, but rather have differences in armor abilites. You can approach one person off the spawn and he will jetpack up with the DMR, and a different person and he will have a plasma repeater and a drop-shield.   There are now gameplay-affecting features of players that are different than one another other than just spawn location.

 

 

Halo 4 took this a step further by now also having perks and even more weapon choice customization.   

 

 

Whether or not you agree with my definitions of "arena" and "class" shooter is irrelevant.   My point is that I do not want halo to have separations in starting attributes other than spawn location- since this leads to "rock-paper-scissor" aspects, regardless of how minor they are.  This leads to having to deal with enemies who just spawned differently based upon what they chose to spawn with, and it removes the predictability aspect that traditional halo had where if the enemy has a different weapon, it can be predicted because they took it off the map and it has a defined timer.   Now there is an unpredictable aspect where you cannot know everything about an opponent before they come to face you.

 

This problem is only exacerbated by the fact that you cannot see AAs on a person until they use them, as opposed to say, being able to see a rocket launcher secondary on someone's back.  However the problem would still exist even if you could see them.

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I disagree with this.  If you are shooting a DMR against a BR you have every reason to keep your distance, and vica-versa.  With the DMR you have more of an advantage in staying back than you do rushing like with the BR.

 

 

You're going to sit here and tell me that you've hesitated on the rush during a game of competitive Halo solely because you were holding a DMR. 

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You're going to sit here and tell me that you've hesitated on the rush during a game of competitive Halo solely because you were holding a DMR. 

If I'm on Onyx with a DMR you bet your ass I'd be more willing to sit at the top of my base off the spawn as a support player rather than rushing yellow or green.  I'll let my teammates with a br do that.

 

It's the same exact reason why when you pick up the LR on station 9 you should have a marked difference in playstyle than your teammates who are primarily using a BR- watching the extraction from Afar.

 

The difference is slight- and you *may personally* not play differently based upon what weapon you are holding, but that doesn't change the fact that there are differences in the weapons and thus differences in playstyle that would be beneficial to make between them.

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If I'm on Onyx with a DMR you bet your ass I'd be more willing to sit at the top of my base off the spawn as a support player rather than rushing yellow or green.  I'll let my teammates with a br do that.

 

It's the same exact reason why when you pick up the LR on station 9 you should have a marked difference in playstyle than your teammates who are primarily using a BR- watching the extraction from Afar.

 

The difference is slight- and you *may personally* not play differently based upon what weapon you are holding, but that doesn't change the fact that there are differences in the weapons and thus differences in playstyle that would be beneficial to make between them.

 

Let me play out this scenario for you (in Midship terms). 

 

Player 1: Three down, three down, rush it pink side!

 

Player 2: Watch spawns car 2!

 

Player 1: Got flag going car!

 

Makeitstop: I'm on car 3.

 

Player 3: Spawning in base, spawning in base! 

 

Player 1: Cover me in window! 

 

Player 2: They're in window! Someone shoot them, I'm down pink side!

 

Player 1: I'M GETTING SHOT AT, SOMEONE COVER!!

 

Player 3: We've got three up, what the fuck?!

 

Player 2: Makeitstop, fucking FLANK! 

 

Player 1: Great, I fucking - dead, flag's getting returned. 

 

Player 2: Two guys on my X. 

 

Makeitstop: Are you crazy? They all have BRs! 

 

Player 3 has quit the game. 

 

Player 1: Are you fucking kidding me? 

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Let me play out this scenario for you (in Midship terms). 

 

funny but not really vindictive of what I was saying at all.

 

I didn't say that I would for sure always be in a different spot than I would with a BR, just that there are slight, yet noticeable, differences that I would make at particular times in relation to my teammates.

 

Another example-

 

At the start of simplex I always rush purple- that's what I do for my team.  If I had a DMR though I would instead switch, let a teammate do that, and instead use my DMR to stay at the top of my base off of the spawn and put shots on enemies rushing OS/staying on their base/ going top purple/top gold since I can support from much greater ranges.

 

I'm not saying that I would never rush purple with a DMR.  Just that at particular moments I would rather choose supporting positions over rushing positions.  If there were both DMR and BR spawns it would lead to slight yet noticeable differences in playstyles.

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What you're suggesting is equivalent to the difference in "strategy" if someone chose frags over plasmas. It does not make Halo a class shooter because you're not in a different class by choosing a BR or a DMR - they're both assault rifles to be used at range. 

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What you're suggesting is equivalent to the difference in "strategy" if someone chose frags over plasmas. It does not make Halo a class shooter because you're not in a different class by choosing a BR or a DMR - they're both assault rifles to be used at range. 

As I believe I've stated like 8 times now, it doesn't matter how small the difference is, if there is a difference off of the spawn other than spawn location it is no longer an "arena" shooter by my definition.

 

The difference between BR and DMR is not even a slight difference anyway- If your team could have 1 person with a DMR and the other 3 with a BR that would actually change your player roles in relation to one another, with your support player having the DMR and filling in gaps behind your other teammembers rushing for the majority of the game.  It's definitely a bigger difference maker than just plasma/frag.

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