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With dedicated servers, are you for/against hitscan in H5?

  

189 members have voted

  1. 1. With dedicated servers, are you for/against hitscan in H5?

    • For
      117
    • Against
      48
    • Undecided
      24


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I can promise you the H3 sniper was projectile. You could miss a red reticule shot if you had it on the trailing side of their head. It was possible to do in H2 as well, but only from extreme, blue reticule distances.

I always thought it was hitscan too. Yeah like cT posted...

 

Sorry I meant to + rep... On my phone. :/

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The h2 BR was easy mode with way too much aim assist and bullet magnetism. H3 was indeed bad becuase of spread. Something that you are completely ignoring in the argument.

 

How much H1 did you play on LAN?

 

Edit: i had two different discussions going on and got a little mixed up. after i made my point about randomness i started focusing on spread rather than projectile, sory for the mix up.

 

my entire argument is based around spread which promotes randomness, or haven't you been paying attention? you obviously haven't.

i brought up h2 to make a point about consistency not to measure dicks, and you try and bring up CE status like i didn't LAN that game every weekend for years, gtfo.

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Edit: i had two different discussions going on and got a little mixed up. after i made my point about randomness i started focusing on spread rather than projectile, sory for the mix up.

 

my entire argument is based around spread which promotes randomness, or haven't you been paying attention? you obviously haven't.

i brought up h2 to make a point about consistency not to measure dicks, and you try and bring up CE status like i didn't LAN that game every weekend for years, gtfo.

You kept saying projectile makes it random...

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You kept saying projectile makes it random...

 

i had been discussing spread with some one on aim when i made the post and mixed myself up. i misread the OP.

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i had been discussing spread with some one on aim when i made the post and mixed myself up. i misread the OP.

Fair enough, but how do you feel about projectile now assuming your weapon doesn't have spread? Just for the conversation, assume it's a single shot weapon like the DMR.

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Fair enough, but how do you feel about projectile now assuming your weapon doesn't have spread? Just for the conversation, assume it's a single shot weapon like the DMR.

Personally, as stated above multiple times, I still feel that it *is* a randomness inducing mechanic similar to rock-paper-scissors in that both players are in complete control of their own actions, but when mingled create a random/luck based encounter.

 

 

Now, with projectiles it is obviously much less of a luck factor than rock/paper/scissors, but my point still stands that the opponent has the ability to move after you shoot and before the bullet hits them- which is completely unpredictable from the shooter's point of view.

 

This translates to very minor, yet existent, amount of guesswork involved when trying to lead shots at long range.

 

I really wouldn't mind leading dmr shots that much though- I really just dislike leading coupled with spread on the br.

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If the game was only going to be played on LAN I could understand having this discussion, but seeing how 99% of the games are going to be played online with latency issues I don't understand how anyone could want projectile based bullets.(Unless you have amazing Internet and simply want that unfair upper hand on your competition)

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If the game was only going to be played on LAN I could understand having this discussion, but seeing how 99% of the games are going to be played online with latency issues I don't understand how anyone could want projectile based bullets.(Unless you have amazing Internet and simply want that unfair upper hand on your competition)

Because projectiles are more fun to shoot, and they work great in BF3. The thought of a ZB projectile DMR gets me pretty psyched.

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Because projectiles are more fun to shoot, and they work great in BF3. The thought of a ZB projectile DMR gets me pretty psyched.

They work great in BF3 because

 

1. the maps are absolutely massive so it represents realistic bullets- which is fun for a semi-realistic game.

 

2.  killtimes are significantly quicker.

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Am I the only one confused? How is projectile random? How do player movement make a gun random?

Yeah same here.

Makeitstop doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

It was H3's poor BR spread that made projectiles random.

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Yeah same here.

Makeitstop doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

It was H3's poor BR spread that made projectiles random.

Slow-moving projectiles are technically random because you cannot guarantee a hit at any point, if your target is moving fast enough. Say, for an extreme example, the target moves faster than the projectile. The target has the ability to avoid all your shots, so any hits are because of random mistakes made by the target.

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Slow-moving projectiles are technically random because you cannot guarantee a hit at any point, if your target is moving fast enough. Say, for an extreme example, the target moves faster than the projectile. The target has the ability to avoid all your shots, so any hits are because of random mistakes made by the target.

Yes but at what distance is that really an issue?

On any small map your shots will hit.

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Yes but at what distance is that really an issue?

On any small map your shots will hit.

Not if we have a good strafe and fast base movement speeds.

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Fair enough, but how do you feel about projectile now assuming your weapon doesn't have spread? Just for the conversation, assume it's a single shot weapon like the DMR.

 

I still don't feel it's ideal and still think hit scan is a more consistent, better option. Is leading shots a skill? yes. Can it be considered more guesswork and assumption when compared to hitscan? also yes. The bottom line is that hit scan works and at the very least we all can agree that projectile based weaponry is another factor the player must gauge and worry about... that bugs me because too many factors inherently can lead to randomness, even if the mechanics are dead on. sort of like what happened with h4 but the best example is tekken tag 2 seeing as you support fighting games. There is simply too much depth in tag 2. Too many variables in juggling (axis, height, distance from wall, oki, tag crash, size of chracter, ch or no, punish or no etc. etc. etc. the list goes on) essentially make it random, there's a certain amount of security up until a certain point and then after that you lose faith in the entire system. so let's not call projectile random but instead refer to it and think of it as a variable. variables can be affected by anything within it's environment....So without knowing the rest of the mechanics in h5 how can anyone even hope to make an assumption about which is right and which is wrong. anyone can sit here and "well actually" me with archaic points about h3 and CE while simultaneously ignoring everything that made spread a viable mechanic on lan. slow movement speeds, no sprint, predictable physics, no gimmicks such as hardlight or armor lock, and other factors that induced consistency concerning projectile. it's all fine and dandy to be altruistic but everyone here seems to be ignoring the current path halo is on. at the very least we can all expect sprint.... projectile in h5 isn't going to play like halo 3, it's not going to play like CE, H5 is going to be NOTHING like those games.

And consider the population, what if h5 is mostly like h4? are we really going to expect the waning population to learn yet another skill in leading that makes the game more difficult? or did we all forget to think of the population as a whole? what happens if the game is too difficult to play and we're left with no real competitive league and 20k online after a couple months? too many factors isn't conducive to a long lasting game. Keep it consistent, keep it simple and save halo. you have to look at the whole scope of halo, including it's effect outside the game.

but for the sake of shits and gigs assuming the population was fine and there was no sprint and increased physics etc. etc. etc. i would still vote hitscan.

 

sidenote:

the comparisons to BF3 made me laugh. let's compare super realism to sci-fi warfare simply because they are both FPS? was that the logic there? would you like to get into a dick measuring contest with lex steele just because you're both dudes?

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Yeah same here.

Makeitstop doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

It was H3's poor BR spread that made projectiles random.

You didn't even understand my comment when you read it so I don't know why you keep insisting this.  If you don't even know what I was saying how can you argue against it?

 

Obviously spread makes it random- I was talking about something else as well that would exist even if there were no spread at all.

Yes but at what distance is that really an issue?

On any small map your shots will hit.

It's always an issue, as I described, by a small distance on your screen.  Especially with a responsive strafe system like in halo 2.  Also, I always said I was talking about long-distance shooting.  I never once said that I was talking about close-distance.

 

It may only be the difference of 10 pixel-widths.  But that's 10-pixel widths nontheless.

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Skols, have you even played BF3? It is absolutely a viable comparison. Your shots drop and do less damage from long distances, which makes the kill time longer. It's not like CoD. You don't die instantly in BF3, especially at long distance. And yet, the projectile nature of the bullets is still both reliable and skillful. It's done really, really well, and I know that between my experience with BFBC2, BF3, H1, and H3 on a good connection, that projectile could work great in H5.

 

It's not that hard to learn, it isn't that hard to adjust to long range fighting, and it will run fine on a dedicated server because I've seen it done well by companies with less resources than 343.

 

You guys are making this sound way more difficult than it really is.

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Because projectiles are more fun to shoot, and they work great in BF3. The thought of a ZB projectile DMR gets me pretty psyched.

 

Using the "more fun" argument isn't the best went talking competitive merit. It's all subjective since others prefer hitscan. I prefer projectile, but i'm just saying. 

 

Also projectiles takes more skill. Guessing where someone is strafing is fine. That's the whole point of strafing. Projectiles don't work online though so i still say go with hitscan. 

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Skols, have you even played BF3? It is absolutely a viable comparison. Your shots drop and do less damage from long distances, which makes the kill time longer. It's not like CoD. You don't die instantly in BF3, especially at long distance. And yet, the projectile nature of the bullets is still both reliable and skillful. It's done really, really well, and I know that between my experience with BFBC2, BF3, H1, and H3 on a good connection, that projectile could work great in H5.

 

It's not that hard to learn, it isn't that hard to adjust to long range fighting, and it will run fine on a dedicated server because I've seen it done well by companies with less resources than 343.

 

You guys are making this sound way more difficult than it really is.

BF3 guns work completely different from Halo's utility weapon; Having spread, drop, and travel time works for automatics because missing an individual bullet makes a very little difference in the overall killtime. Having ballistics also works for snipers because you can always tell when you've hit (kill) and if you miss, you aren't punished that much because your target cannot shoot back at you with their automatic from such an extreme range. Halo requires an amount of precision to effectively use guns that doesn't make projectiles an option; missing any of the twelve rapidly fired bullets in the BR's minimum killtime should dramatically extend the time it takes to kill.

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Personally, as stated above multiple times, I still feel that it *is* a randomness inducing mechanic similar to rock-paper-scissors in that both players are in complete control of their own actions, but when mingled create a random/luck based encounter.

 

 

Now, with projectiles it is obviously much less of a luck factor than rock/paper/scissors, but my point still stands that the opponent has the ability to move after you shoot and before the bullet hits them- which is completely unpredictable from the shooter's point of view.

 

This translates to very minor, yet existent, amount of guesswork involved when trying to lead shots at long range.

 

I really wouldn't mind leading dmr shots that much though- I really just dislike leading coupled with spread on the br.

 

When you say they can move and the bullet will miss, no shit its called leading ur shot. 

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When you say they can move and the bullet will miss, no shit its called leading ur shot. 

... and another person clearly did not read my earlier comment that explains it.

 

protip: if you are going to argue against someone's argument, READ their argument.

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Makeitstop your argument is horrible. And the fact you actually believe that it remotely make sense is hilarious.

great retort. Would've loved to have seen actual substance instead.

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