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HaloFanForLife

HaloFanForLife here.

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Yes, it's me "Sal" from HaloFanForLife.com. The "casual" player. Heh, hardly. But then you all don't know me either. So let me state that I am a competitive player in the sense I play to win, no matter the cost to my K/D AND without cheating to do it. I won't get butt hurt if I do not win.

 

Now to those of you who have been bashing me for my stance on Pro Gamers, let me further state that I have no issue with pro gaming itself. And not even all Pro Players. There are those who have been vocal though about the evolution of Halo and how the game now sucks. Folks, you just CAN NOT live in the past. I'll say the old cliché word that you all hate, "ADAPT".

 

I've gone through this adaption with every Halo game. I've gotten better. I'm never going to awesome, but better than average? Sure. I proved that to myself when I changed my gameplay from Halo 3 to Halo Reach and improved my K/D. 

 

Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to sign up here is to answer NOX Lemon's thread (which has been since closed before I even had a chance to respond to it). 

 

NOX, first thing, I'm certainly no troll. Unless you call having my own Halo blog for two years with an average of 2600-2900 visitors a day, or having a podcast, gaming group, creating a Halo Ricochet League, soon to have a forum, and developing a new Halo based web series trolling...

 

My heart and soul are in Halo. ALL aspects of Halo. 

 

You talk next about Spartan Assault being awful but you give no reasons why, nor a way to fix what you think is wrong. I personally LOVED Spartan Ops. It was a mini-campaign within the game. My more than 20 guest appearances on Podtacular, discussing the chapters, missions, and the comic book I made faithfully EVERY week, culminating in a Graphic Novel, which BTW, was 300 pages long (300 a Spartan Coincidence??? I think not) attest to my love for this mode. You can call that a wash between us if you want...... Spartan Ops was for some, not all. 

 

Now to say you'll lose some IQ points by reading my comments? LOL Really? Come on man, be better than that. I'm a college educated individual. I hold two degrees. I placed 4th of more than 400 in my first graduation, then graduated first in my class for the second degree.

 

Am I out of touch with Pros? Maybe. Yes, I'm fully aware MLG doesn't carry Halo anymore. I refer heavily to AGL, but there are still MANY people who just call pro sports MLG. It's kind of like how people call tissues Kleenex, when Kleenex is the name brand only. 

 

Heh, I'm not butt hurt by not being as good as pros. 

 

As for licking 343's arse, have you read my full blog for the last two years? I've gone over MANY topics where 343 failed and talk about what I think they could do better and how I think they should do it. It doesn't help to complain unless you've got some kind of idea on what can be done to make things better. You don't know this but I've applied twice for a job with 343. I came close the first time, being told by the recruiter for the job that I was one of two finalists. This wasn't for butt kissing. This was for hard work at creating a successful blog and further reaching out to the larger community if not the pro player aspect.

 

See, I gave up on pros when they were bashing Reach. For all of Reach's "failings", the complaints I heard just were sickening. Many of those vocal Pros seemed to just complain for the sake of being heard without given ways to fix what they thought was wrong. And yes, they seem to always only talk about the multiplayer aspect of the game. Firefight was amazing, and yeah, I loved the campaign too. That has more to do with being a more well rounded fan than focusing on one part of the game. Nothing wrong with that either way, but to say Reach sucked? Hardly. To want to change it to gameplay that was from at the time 6 years prior? Living in the past guys...

 

See from the "casual" perspective, since that is what I seem to be heralded as, Pros caused the decline of Reach popularity due to their vocal disinterest in the game. Many of those who follow pros took to their opinions and that in part is what caused the games decline. Again...I'm stating this from who "casuals" see this. 

 

Pros have a responsibility to the community that while they may disagree with some aspects of the game, they need to back it regardless and then work on what needs to be fixed. We only need look a Ghost for the kind of great things he's done. And those things are what is helping to bring together the casual/competitive side, not complaining. He's been an extremely positive influence on Halo 4.

 

Nox, you say I need to grow a pair? Bro, my balls couldn't be any bigger. I risked my whole reputation, my blog, my relationships with 343 and more to call out Connor White (whom yes, I now know isn't a pro player, meh, you can't know everything, right?). Point is, I took a lot of flak for that in the Halo community, yet I stood my ground (found out some of folks here bashed me on that but that the threads were taken down), yet...lo' and behold who came to stand by me? A Pro player in the form of TSquared. Funny how that works.

 

Ghost and I follow each other on twitter and he's coming to my LAN in just under two weeks. So you see, I've opened myself up to learn more about the pro aspect of the game. I enjoyed the HELL out of the Global Championship and promoted it heavily on my site. Go and take a look if you don't believe me. Please NOX, go...

 

Is my attitude towards Pros changing? Maybe. I definitely liked what I saw, not just in game play from the Championship, but the good gamesmanship from most of the Elite Eight.

 

I'm certainly not the one to ruin Halo. I call out what I think is wrong, I give praise to what I think is right. I'm not a "sheeple" who blindly follows 343 at every whim. If I were, I'd be a yes man, and that is something I have NEVER been.

 

Feel free to fire back NOX. It's cool. I've said my peace on this matter. The only thing I'll say in return is thanks, you gave me more exposure. I got roughly 30 60 hits alone from you linking to my site from that one thread.

 

-Sal

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Your post has some flaws.

 

Sure pros can say what's wrong with a game and give the developer feedback/criticism. But at the end of the day, it's the developers job and choice what to fix in their game - not the pros.

 

Also the decline in population for Halo 4 and Reach can't be blamed on the pros either. Do you really think the pros have that big of an influence that 375k people stopped playing Halo 4? The answer is no. Maybe the game isn't enjoyable anymore?

 

As for you calling out Giggle Monster, it was the right thing to do. I didn't see anyone on his side except for a few people. And since this is related to cheating - new accounts are not cheating.

 

By the way when you made a new account and played the global championship, it was completely random. CSR was never a factor in terms of who you would match.

 

And finally, we have been giving feedback and criticism for years. So you can't blame the players or pros, it's the developer.

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You're right Mechonis, it is the developers job. So why not leave them to do it then? If anyone doesn't like their product then don't play it. Noone is forcing anyone into playing a video game. But since it seems pros want to change the game the most from what it is, then there is this kind of discussion.

 

Do I think pros have a big influence? Back in the Halo 3 days? YES. So when Reach came out, their followers flocked to them for their opinions. It seemed several very influential pros were bashing Reach and gamers in droves turned against the game. 

 

I'm not going to get into a debate about the merits and shortfalls of Reach. EVERY Halo game has had it's fair share of issues. People tend to forget that and seem to call the previous game the best or better than what is now the new game. 

 

As for Giggle Monster, form what I read, initially Virgin Gaming said multiple accounts was considered cheating. 343 put the kibosh on that. But that is only a part of what got me riled up. Giggle Monster (GM) as a "co-owner" of AGL had to be held into higher account given his position with AGL. As well, being an affiliate of 343 means he shouldn't have even played in the contest, let alone be given room to cheat or use alternate accounts otherwise. But that is all a moot point now and a road I would rather wish to not repeat going along again.

 

I completely understand pros have been giving feedback for years. So have the competitive non-pros (of which I consider myself) and casual players.

 

343's decisions with Halo 4 perplexed many of us for different reasons. Multiplayer gameplay, certain Forge options being there/not being there, no theater for Campaign/Spartan Ops, no permanent DLC only playlist, ranked and social playlists, and a myriad of other concerns.

 

So how to fix this? well for one, for those pros who are still influential, how about scaling back the public criticism of the game and deliver civil ways to fix the game? Don't bolt to another franchise (COD). And yes, I know it's a "career" for some, but does anyone think there will be a pro player who's been playing Halo for the next 30 years? Imagine that, a bunch of 50 and 60 year olds completing in Halo? Not likely. The point is, to make a difference you've got to be of a positive influence now. 

 

I'll agree that the two links that NOX pointed out were not in the best light for me. What can I say but that I was in the moment and passionate. A similar reason I'm sure the pros would say also. If you look at the overwhelming amount of content on my blog it's in a positive light of Halo, while not kissing arse.

 

The thing we need to take from all of this is that for Halo to not just survive but THRIVE we ALL need to be patient with 343, give them constructive criticism, not bash them publicly and stick with the franchise. Doing otherwise is going to further diminish the Halo franchise and the Halo community as a whole.

 

-Sal

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Most pro players go on with their lifes in the late 20s and can cast or coach or i hope people people like ninja, ryan, and gandhi gets hired by 343 because of their extreme knowledge of the game. 

 

The person who has the most voice in the game is Gandhi, because he knows the most and can relay his opinion the best 

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You're right Mechonis, it is the developers job. So why not leave them to do it then? If anyone doesn't like their product then don't play it. Noone is forcing anyone into playing a video game. But since it seems pros want to change the game the most from what it is, then there is this kind of discussion.

 

Do I think pros have a big influence? Back in the Halo 3 days? YES. So when Reach came out, their followers flocked to them for their opinions. It seemed several very influential pros were bashing Reach and gamers in droves turned against the game. 

 

I'm not going to get into a debate about the merits and shortfalls of Reach. EVERY Halo game has had it's fair share of issues. People tend to forget that and seem to call the previous game the best or better than what is now the new game. 

You're highly overestimating the influence Pros have on the game. Halo 4 sold 11 million copies. 40,000 people watched the highly publicized MLG Dallas event just before the release date, when the hype for Halo 4 was at its highest. Of those 40,000, the majority probably just wanted to see the multiplayer or drifted in from other much larger E-sports while there were commercials or breaks. Even at the peak of Halo 3, the pros really didn't have that much of an influence, as Halo 3 was almost universally hated by the competitive community but somehow was also the most popular to play/watch. Most Halo players probably don't even know that professional gamers exist, much less allowed for discussion on a forum to sway their opinion of a game. People left Reach primarily because they enjoyed it less than other games...

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You're highly overestimating the influence Pros have on the game. Halo 4 sold 11 million copies. 40,000 people watched the highly publicized MLG Dallas event just before the release date, when the hype for Halo 4 was at its highest. Of those 40,000, the majority probably just wanted to see the multiplayer or drifted in from other much larger E-sports while there were commercials or breaks. Even at the peak of Halo 3, the pros really didn't have that much of an influence, as Halo 3 was almost universally hated by the competitive community but somehow was also the most popular to play/watch. Most Halo players probably don't even know that professional gamers exist, much less allowed for discussion on a forum to sway their opinion of a game. People left Reach primarily because they enjoyed it less than other games...

 

You in essence have just made my point for me. You're saying that pros have little influence now, even back in Halo 3. So why then should the developer listen to pros? 343 has listened to the pro community. Why else would they hire Bravo? Why would they allow someone like Ghost to have influence/impact on settings?

 

Like it or no, Halo is never going to be what it was back in Halo 2/3. There can always be a classic playlist to appease those who want that experience. But I and many think it's a bit selfish for what you've admitted to being a small and not so influential group wanting to change the game, rather than changing their own gameplay to adhere to developer settings.

 

On another note, even Goldenboy is frustrated by the hate folks here are giving 343. Check out his twitter feed for that. They GAVE the pro community this contest. To say otherwise would be to lie to yourself. Look at the number of pros invited to the H4GC, that essentially by-passed the grind of the weekly online competition. 

 

If anyone honestly believes that 343 isn't catering enough to the pro crowd, well, they are a bit delusional then.

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You in essence have just made my point for me. You're saying that pros have little influence now, even back in Halo 3. So why then should the developer listen to pros? 343 has listened to the pro community. Why else would they hire Bravo? Why would they allow someone like Ghost to have influence/impact on settings?

 

Like it or no, Halo is never going to be what it was back in Halo 2/3. There can always be a classic playlist to appease those who want that experience. But I and many think it's a bit selfish for what you've admitted to being a small and not so influential group wanting to change the game, rather than changing their own gameplay to adhere to developer settings.

 

On another note, even Goldenboy is frustrated by the hate folks here are giving 343. Check out his twitter feed for that. They GAVE the pro community this contest. To say otherwise would be to lie to yourself. Look at the number of pros invited to the H4GC, that essentially by-passed the grind of the weekly online competition. 

 

If anyone honestly believes that 343 isn't catering enough to the pro crowd, well, they are a bit delusional then.

Actually, I would prefer if Halo would go all the way back to CE...

The developer should listen to the pros and the competitive community on things that benefit the competitive community, Competitive Multiplayer. The reality is, E-sports is booming. Not having a AAA title be competitively viable and not having the developer throw tournaments will become an oddity in five years. Hell, every big multiplayer game right now (StarCraft, League of Legends, DOTA, COD) is on MLG or has other tournaments. We shouldn't be begging 343 to host tournaments, they should legitimately be glad to put millions of dollars into the tournament scene; a big, serious, tournament creates a ton of exposure, increases your prestige as a developer, and demonstrates the highest quality of your game.

 

You seem to think that competitive settings are only "preferred" by the competitive community. The entire reason such settings were created is because they make logical sense and enable fair, balanced gameplay. True, most Halo players play casually, but that doesn't mean the game  they play cannot also be played competitively without any adjustment. Indeed, the "quintessential" and best rated Halo game, Halo CE, used competitive settings across the board. You didn't even have to choose Slayer Pro, the plasma pistol was also viable as a starting utility weapon.

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You're contradicting yourself from previous posts. First you say pros don't have influence. This by extension means pro gaming, for one without the other, neither exists. So you expect millions to be tossed a pro gaming then? VERY Laughable. It certainly remains to be seen if in 5 years your analogy will become a reality.

 

Halo really doesn't need exposure. You did see/read the sales numbers for Halo 4, right? 'Nuff said.

Prestige should not come from a developer participating in tournaments. Rather through a well made game.

 

There is a big difference between Pro settings, competitive settings and casual settings. Out of the box, the settings for Halo 4 while not perfect were tolerable. My issue as is with many others is the constant push it seems by pros to revert back to settings from games past. No matter how good those were, Halo will become stagnant if it can't offer something new and refreshing.

 

Do you honestly believe that carrying the same settings from Halo:CE for 13 years and counting would keep Halo at the top? You don't think somewhere along the line a vast majority of gamers would have become bored with that?

 

One of the keys to bringing in new features is to see what sticks. What people like, what they don't. Devs can now tailor the game after launch to that. Of course a BETA would have helped, but that's moot right now.

 

As far as balance with weapons, the game can be tweaked forever and still never have perfect settings. There is always going to be someone who will complain about one thing or another. So who gets catered to then? The majority of players? The pro crowd? In and of that as well, there needs to be a balance. Skew the game too far casually and the game becomes a joke. Skew it too far competitive/pro settings and you'll lose that much larger portion of casual gamers who know they can't compete. That also means they will be much less apt to buying the NEXT game in the series. 

 

The game has to be FUN as well as competitive. If the game can't/won't be played by the casuals (again I do NOT count myself as one), who make up a big portion of at least those initial huge sales numbers, then the game/franchise is doomed to fail.

 

Folks, you have to be much more open to being multi-dimensional when it comes to gaming. It's not all about the pros, nor is it all about casuals. With regards to Halo, it's not all about multiplayer or campaign or Spartan Ops. It's ALL of those things and more. The outside crowd sees all of this constant talk of pro/competitive settings and the constant whining and think, why should I support these guys?

 

I'd venture to guess that if 343 said they would have 1 or 2 big tourneys a year that some would still  complain that isn't enough. 343 is a business. They aren't looking to throw money away. If they see the merits of eSports and more and more regular gamers get behind that, they will address it. The fact that it's not happening as fast as some want it to really isn't a concern to 343.

 

It's funny, I ready Saucey's post about how 343 "gets it." Yet, he was being bashed by many folks here. Really? One of your own? If you can't agree amongst yourselves, how can you ever expect the rest of the Halo community to agree with you?

 

One last analogy. I've said this before many times publicly. One of the main reasons I can't give my respect or support to pros/pro settings is that it just doesn't work for the masses. If you want more people to respect and look up to your gameplay, then play with the settings the game comes with. Then maybe the rest of us can actually learn from that through your streams. Instead, all we end up seeing are settings that are not in the majority of the game, I'm talking well beyond Team Throwdown/Team (Infinity) Slayer, and Rumble Pit. If everyone were using the same settings, then those who aren't as good could potentially get better because those settings are for everyone. 

 

Having tailor made settings for pros gives off that air of elitism. That is something that is not desirable by the majority. Yes, pros are the elite, but when they refuse to play tournaments at settings other than pro settings, well, that's a problem. Dont' think that happens? You're out of touch then. I've personally spoken with tournament organizers who have told me as such. Also, these pro settings put the game far out of reach for even the average gamer. There are many that suspect that is on purpose. It's a way to prevent the "fraternity" that is pro gaming from being disturbed by "lesser" gamers on "lower" or developer settings. You may not see it that way, but that IS how many others do. Again, open your minds to this whole discussion and be honest with yourselves. There is room for all. It can never be solely one way or the other. 

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You're contradicting yourself from previous posts. First you say pros don't have influence. This by extension means pro gaming, for one without the other, neither exists. So you expect millions to be tossed a pro gaming then? VERY Laughable. It certainly remains to be seen if in 5 years your analogy will become a reality.

 

Halo really doesn't need exposure. You did see/read the sales numbers for Halo 4, right? 'Nuff said.

Prestige should not come from a developer participating in tournaments. Rather through a well made game.

 

There is a big difference between Pro settings, competitive settings and casual settings. Out of the box, the settings for Halo 4 while not perfect were tolerable. My issue as is with many others is the constant push it seems by pros to revert back to settings from games past. No matter how good those were, Halo will become stagnant if it can't offer something new and refreshing.

 

Do you honestly believe that carrying the same settings from Halo:CE for 13 years and counting would keep Halo at the top? You don't think somewhere along the line a vast majority of gamers would have become bored with that?

 

One of the keys to bringing in new features is to see what sticks. What people like, what they don't. Devs can now tailor the game after launch to that. Of course a BETA would have helped, but that's moot right now.

 

As far as balance with weapons, the game can be tweaked forever and still never have perfect settings. There is always going to be someone who will complain about one thing or another. So who gets catered to then? The majority of players? The pro crowd? In and of that as well, there needs to be a balance. Skew the game too far casually and the game becomes a joke. Skew it too far competitive/pro settings and you'll lose that much larger portion of casual gamers who know they can't compete. That also means they will be much less apt to buying the NEXT game in the series. 

 

The game has to be FUN as well as competitive. If the game can't/won't be played by the casuals (again I do NOT count myself as one), who make up a big portion of at least those initial huge sales numbers, then the game/franchise is doomed to fail.

 

Folks, you have to be much more open to being multi-dimensional when it comes to gaming. It's not all about the pros, nor is it all about casuals. With regards to Halo, it's not all about multiplayer or campaign or Spartan Ops. It's ALL of those things and more. The outside crowd sees all of this constant talk of pro/competitive settings and the constant whining and think, why should I support these guys?

 

I'd venture to guess that if 343 said they would have 1 or 2 big tourneys a year that some would still  complain that isn't enough. 343 is a business. They aren't looking to throw money away. If they see the merits of eSports and more and more regular gamers get behind that, they will address it. The fact that it's not happening as fast as some want it to really isn't a concern to 343.

 

It's funny, I ready Saucey's post about how 343 "gets it." Yet, he was being bashed by many folks here. Really? One of your own? If you can't agree amongst yourselves, how can you ever expect the rest of the Halo community to agree with you?

 

One last analogy. I've said this before many times publicly. One of the main reasons I can't give my respect or support to pros/pro settings is that it just doesn't work for the masses. If you want more people to respect and look up to your gameplay, then play with the settings the game comes with. Then maybe the rest of us can actually learn from that through your streams. Instead, all we end up seeing are settings that are not in the majority of the game, I'm talking well beyond Team Throwdown/Team (Infinity) Slayer, and Rumble Pit. If everyone were using the same settings, then those who aren't as good could potentially get better because those settings are for everyone. 

 

Having tailor made settings for pros gives off that air of elitism. That is something that is not desirable by the majority. Yes, pros are the elite, but when they refuse to play tournaments at settings other than pro settings, well, that's a problem. Dont' think that happens? You're out of touch then. I've personally spoken with tournament organizers who have told me as such. Also, these pro settings put the game far out of reach for even the average gamer. There are many that suspect that is on purpose. It's a way to prevent the "fraternity" that is pro gaming from being disturbed by "lesser" gamers on "lower" or developer settings. You may not see it that way, but that IS how many others do. Again, open your minds to this whole discussion and be honest with yourselves. There is room for all. It can never be solely one way or the other. 

The opinions of individual Halo pros do not have that much of an influence. Pro Gaming on other games is receiving more exposure. I fail to see the contradiction in my two statements.

 

Look at other developers, Riot, Valve, and Treyarch. They throw millions into competitive gaming and look at their success, dev tournaments are really a great form of advertisement. The only reason Halo 4 sold so well is because of name recognition, otherwise 90% of the population wouldn't have left.

 

Developer prestige, from designing good gameplay, is displayed through competitive gaming, thus through dev participation in big tournaments.

 

Why should there be three different settings? If the game is well designed enough, everyone should be able to play it how they want. We remove weapons from the sandbox/alter maps because they weren't designed well, not because we don't like them.

 

Halo become stale if it stays the same, true. But the core gameplay should be consistent and all the additions should be well designed. The issue with Halo 4 is that many aspects of the core were changed, and new gameplay built upon the core wasn't well designed/thought out.

 

Halo CE is a simple and very robust game. Small changes (weapons, maps new powerups, AAs on map) can be added while maintaining the core gameplay tenants. Casual players will be satisfied because it feels like a new game whereas competitive players are also satisfied that a stable base is being used.

 

Game design is not as simple as just putting in things people like; purely doing so will result in a lot of unbalances/gimmicky mechanics. You need to be adding new ideas off of a stable base (classic Halo) without damaging the base.

 

The beauty about Arena shooter is that they can have perfect settings. Because each mechanic influences the others within the game, and players aren't ever limited, nothing is OP. Having one weapon stronger than the other only means players have to adapt their strategies to pick up that weapon more. In the worst possible scenario, mechanics are made redundant, but still do not break the game.

 

The idea that 343 needs to even "cater" to a specific player demographic is ridiculous. Good settings are enjoyed by all, if a good ranking system places people in a similar skill category.

 

In multiplayer games, fun comes from good design. Competitiveness also comes from good design. Thus, both are promoted if the game is any good.

 

It's a shock to you that a competitive forum is mainly talking about competitive multiplayer? Our "whining" is about Halo 4 not having good mechanics, if people reading our posts don't want to play Halo afterwards, its because they believe our points that the mechanics aren't very good.

 

343 is a part of Microsoft. Virgin gaming is a part of Virgin. Several million is barely spare change to them, whereas eSports are an extremely lucrative new development. It makes business sense for them to support eSports.

 

We bashed Saucey because we didn't agree with what he said. We aren't robots that agree with each other all the time. However, the competitive community at least has some direction in their demands; the rest of the Halo community probably doesn't even agree with themselves.

 

The only reason casual players cannot enjoy pro settings in Halo 4, Reach, and 3 is because those games were designed without any regard to classic Halo competitive mechanics. Once again, a well designed game should be competitive and accessible, so that players can learn. Infinity slayer is actually not accessible in that players learn basically nothing from playing it, and it certainly isn't competitive.

 

You are overcomplicating "Pro settings." What are competitive settings beyond fair, balanced, non-random,  gameplay that enables a high skill ceiling?

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