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I'm not looking for anything I was just curious to the process

 

Also I know what Murder miners is. There are obviously flaws in the game otherwise it would have more of a following given this communities interest in a competitive console shooter.

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Anyone watching the quake tourney going on now? So competitive its nuts

 

Zowie qualifiers? I would if my internet wasn't all kinds of messed up right now. 

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Zowie qualifiers? I would if my internet wasn't all kinds of messed up right now. 

Yeah I was watching that. It's awesome

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Halo CE is by far the most consistent and most difficult Halo and by making the argument about how it's "just as bad in some ways" as Halo 3 is incredibly disingenuous. And frankly I wouldn't have expected this from you. If everyone loves Halo 3, great. Play it. Love it. I don't care. But don't bring this false equivalence in here because it's wrong.

I appreciate the kind words and enlightenment, especially in terms of the data within the coding. Yet, my main point was this:

 

You're playing a console shooter. There are bound to be mechanics put in place that assist or hinder the user's actions, even in our beloved Halo 1.

I was merely trying to convey the message that we're so quick to talk down on any game that wasn't Halo:CE. The point was "Nothing's perfect." -- including Halo:CE. One mechanic or flaw (maybe besides sprint, haha) does not make or break a title in the Halo series, which again, was proven by the immense success of Halo 1-3.

 

-Ghost

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You are 100% lost on the fact that I am talking about the design, not the map. Spawns, weapons, mechanics, etc. are all parts of a map. They are NOT parts of a design.

 

I make designs with no game or multiple and very different games in mind. However, when I make a map, I am making it for a particular game in consideration with everything that comes with that game.

 

An example of this being an actual differentiation is the judging guidelines for past Forge contests. There is often a grade for Map/Gameplay and a separate grade for Design. They are not the same.

 

With that being said: Yes, the design is very linear. Yes, it is a poor design. But also, it is a good map in CE.

 

On a side note, using a thesaurus as a crutch to paint your reply as an intelligent one doesn't help your cause.

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You are 100% lost on the fact that I am talking about the design, not the map. Spawns, weapons, mechanics, etc. are all parts of a map. They are NOT parts of a design.

 

I make designs with no game or multiple and very different games in mind. However, when I make a map, I am making it for a particular game in consideration with everything that comes with that game.

 

An example of this being an actual differentiation is the judging guidelines for past Forge contests. There is often a grade for Map/Gameplay and a separate grade for Design. They are not the same.

 

With that being said: Yes, the design is very linear. Yes, it is a poor design. But also, it is a good map in CE.

 

On a side note, using a thesaurus as a crutch to paint your reply as an intelligent one doesn't help your cause.

What makes Prisoner any more linear than other Halo designs? Specially maps with a large emphasis on verticatility.

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I'm not looking for anything I was just curious to the process

 

Also I know what Murder miners is. There are obviously flaws in the game otherwise it would have more of a following given this communities interest in a competitive console shooter.

Well the process seems to be much easier with xbone since apparently. Everyone can have a dev kit now. So it seems you just have to develop it as MS is letting arcade games have no publishers as well

 

Advertising and selling seem to be the difficult one

 

If you want to make it on PC which some people here are actually doing, you can use UDK (it's free)engine and you just need to make the art, design, mechanics, etc. UDK is all free and you can advertise it as well I believe for free.

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Yeah I was watching that. It's awesome

 

Quake duels are intense. I'm quite a Quake fanboy myself. More a TDM guy than duels but I'll watch anything. There's a Quake tournament streamed nearly every week. Usually casted by Zoot on his channel twitch.tv/zootlive or on Sundays FaceIt have a weekly tournament on twitch.tv/faceittv

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I had to read back a few pages to get some clarification on what the hell was going on in here. Throughout various threads on various sites I've always stated if you are testing settings or maps test them multiple times with multiple settings/weapon placements and do it with people who are able to break down and assess those tests properly. If not, the tests you are doing could essentially be worthless or provide misinformed data.

 

As you could see directly in the exchange between Ghost and cT. I always love being able to read the actual math behind a game as it provides sound substance for you to base your argument off of. Especially when we can directly compare it to another game.

 

 

As far as APK and other's go, could someone describe linear based maps on assym maps? I understand the verticality aspect, and how gaining top control is important, but I've only heard "linear aggressive maps" when compared to narrows, pit etc. 2 base symmetrical maps.

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What makes Prisoner any more linear than other Halo designs? Specially maps with a large emphasis on verticatility.

 

There are only two geometrical routes that get you from the first floor to the second, and only two again to get you from the second to the third. In both cases, one of those two options is a ladder.

 

Ladders, lifts, teleporters, jump pads are often considered less of a legitimate movement option when designing a map, considering they provide more of an advantage to those already in possession of one, further exaggerating the disadvantages of the receiving end.

 

Three is considered the absolute bare minimum when it comes to movement options, whether it's methods of traversing entire floors, into specific rooms, etc.

 

Damnation almost suffers the same problems in certain areas, but avoids it by being a much more segmented and much larger map.

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Time: 3:57.

 

That is the complete opposite of linear gameplay. 

 

Your pretentiously authoritative garb really cannot hide your total ignorance. Stop making a fool of yourself.

 

Instead of ragging about thesauruses (Note: I don't consult dictionaries to make forum posts), how about you actually reply to the points advanced.

 

You confuse linear gameplay with predictability. Prisoner restricts movement routes - which reduces chaotic gameplay and makes gameplay more predictable (ie more controllable and therefore more competitive). Linear gameplay is what you see on Halo 3/pre-patch Reach maps (hold forward on Narrows).

 

How can it be linear if there are 3 vertical planes?

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Prisoner is a damn good map that plays like a dream in CE.  However, the limited number of routes, and perhaps more importantly the limited number of hard routes, DO make the design linear.  Saying a design is linear should not be confused with the oft used term 'linear aggression'.  Linear aggression refers to the tactic of charging straight at your enemy.  On the other hand, a linear design is one that has heavily directed/restricted flow (not a lot of ways to get from one location to another).  Prisoner has a very linear design.  If you disagree, it's simply because the context/definition of the term 'linear' used in this case is being misunderstood.

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How can it be linear if there are 3 vertical planes?

You are confusing the context in which the word linear is being used.  It is referring to the design of the map, not the type of gameplay that occurs on it.  The two terms are not necessarily related.

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No, a linear map is a map whose geometry creates linear play. Linear aggressiveness is the sort of gameplay that you'd see since H3-era due to both linear maps and the gameplay mechanics (slow killtimes with range etc). 

 

Firstly, going from top to bottom, there are a quasi-infinite number of routes. Already, for the defensive dynamic, the geometry, BECAUSE the map is vertical, cannot possibly be considered linear. A restriction of movement imposed on the offensive player is something that all good maps must (and in fact do) do. If you refer to my post on the previous page  2 pages ago, though it probably got lost with the flow of the conversation, you'll appreciate how the geometry of the map cannot possibly be considered linear. Routes are antipodal and we are not even counting the various jumps which are a huge element of the map, moreso than say Guardian. 

 

I encourage you to watch the linked video at the 3:57 mark and you'll see what I mean. And that's only a very simple example amongst a plethora of other offensive strategies only possible within the context of prisoner's non-linear geometry.

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"linear" - progressing from one stage to another in a single series of steps; sequential

 

Sorry, you can't just make up your own definitions for words.

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Is English your second language by any chance? The definition you provided is basic causal linearity, in which case everything is linear. You know youre not making any sense when you degenerate the conversation to the level of semantics, and yet provide an irrelevant definition because it contained four key words (lmfao, you're not talking about geometry, but sequential (chain) events).

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"linear" - progressing from one stage to another in a single series of steps; sequential

 

Sorry, you can't just make up your own definitions for words.

Ad hominem much? You know what he means.

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I brought the conversation to the level of semantics because you blew your top off going on about maps when I was talking designs. You interchanging them on a whim is like others interchanging bullet magnetism, auto-aim, aim assist, and aim acceleration. Of course I'm going to correct you.

 

When talking about design and its movement options, why would we be talking about geometrical linearity? Of course it'd be sequential linearity. That definition of linearity is and has always been the linearity being used when talking about map design.

 

Also, I already mentioned in multiple posts that designs are independent of mechanics. You can't count unintended jump routes as intended geometrical routes of the design.

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Ad hominem much? You know what he means.

 

How is that an ad hominem? I said he can't pick and choose meanings of words as he pleases or however it can benefit him most. That's all

 

If anything, questioning whether English is my second language or not is an ad hominem.

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No, a linear map is a map whose geometry creates linear play.

See, this is why there is such a strong reaction to aPK's assertion.  The word 'linear' in the context he is using it, absolutely does NOT have anything to do with how a map plays.  I understand and agree that Prisoner does not have linear gameplay in the way that Narrow does, for example.  That doesn't change the fact that the design itself is linear.

 

The geometry of the map, such as doorway ledges that allow alternate routes, helps prevent the map from having linear gameplay.  However, that doorway ledge has nothing to do with the base design of the map, which is very linear.

 

Also, your argument that because the map is vertical it cannot be linear is easily disproved by looking at a map like Boarding action.

I am not asserting that route restriction is a bad thing by any means.  I'm just trying to clarify the context in which the word 'linear' is being used, as it's apparent to me that many forgers use that term in a different way than non-forgers do.  Design and gameplay are not necessarily related, and Prisoner is a good example of this.

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On a side note, using a thesaurus as a crutch to paint your reply as an intelligent one doesn't help your cause.

Was this line really necessary?

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Was this line really necessary?

 

Do you think the over-abundance of unnecessarily complex words helps illustrate his point? I think if anything, they can only tangle up what he is trying to get across. That's all I was getting at.

 

 

 

Were these necessary?

 

"Is English your second language by any chance?"

 

"Your pretentiously authoritative garb really cannot hide your total ignorance. Stop making a fool of yourself."

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Time: 3:57.

 

That is the complete opposite of linear gameplay. 

 

Your pretentiously authoritative garb really cannot hide your total ignorance. Stop making a fool of yourself.

 

Instead of ragging about thesauruses (Note: I don't consult dictionaries to make forum posts), how about you actually reply to the points advanced.

 

You confuse linear gameplay with predictability. Prisoner restricts movement routes - which reduces chaotic gameplay and makes gameplay more predictable (ie more controllable and therefore more competitive). Linear gameplay is what you see on Halo 3/pre-patch Reach maps (hold forward on Narrows).

 

How can it be linear if there are 3 vertical planes?

 

What a complete tool.

I'm all for heated debates, but lets keep the flaming to a minimum please and avoid comments like the bolded. 

 

Thanks. 

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