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Lord Boobington

Should the next Halo Title have AA's?

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I'd still prefer powerups such as OS/Camo/Speed Boost instead of a Sprint powerup. 

yeah me too. but i would rather have sprint power up than a sprint loadout...

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I don't think we will ever see the removal of entitlements. Whether it be in the real world or the Halo series. So unfortunately AA's will not be going anywhere, if anything I expect things will get worse. Hope I am wrong.

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I thought that AAs worked alright as pickups in MLG reach. That kept them from being too constant and they had to be earned. Also, not all power weapons and power ups fit to all maps, so why would all AAs work on all maps. This way, AAs could be placed on appropriate maps for them and the maps won't need to be built around them either.

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Also, I saw someone mention the fact that all current AAs are defensive for the most part. I think that having more offensive based AAs could be ok. I am unsure what that could be. I know hey pack can obviously be offensive. The only other thing I think of is something like gust from shadowrun. That was fun to use I thought. Little things like that could be ok I think, but I would still rather them be pick ups rather than starting abilities.

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snip

firstly, how can an idea by 'false'? that is like answering "how many apples are in my orchard?" with "yes". if by 'false' you meant 'stupid', please actually elaborate rather than sitting back, bringing no arguments forth, negging me, then claiming i insult members of the site. also i noe they are not part of the core triangle mechanics, that's highly fucking irrelevant. that's like saying 'don't add the grenade launcher because grenade launchers weren't in halo before". yes, i'm at the point where i'm not bothered to argue properly anymore, and instead reflect ur crap back at u.

 

secondly, i've only attacked members in retaliation to their own hostility. you cud point out when i accused nabster of being 'nostalgic', because claiming someone has nostalgia for a game that i also love is such a low blow.

 

finally, this is why i 'attack' members of the site. because rather than actually discuss, you behave self-righteous and arrogant. 'a great series ruined because of a couple casual players' who the fuck are you? stop filling ur posts with irrelevant melodramatic bullshit. want me to mirror how u construct ur posts? (and i haven't attacked -you- yet, only ur post)

 

"You're totally wrong about visible ranks. Visible ranks have shown to be highly ineffective, as seen in Halo 2 and 3, where the games were riddled with cheaters and boosters. Competitive players like you are what is killing the series. We are at a crisis right now, and it's all because of the competitive community's constant bitching. Things like visible ranks, and no radar only further alienate and segregate the fanbase when the last thing our community needs right now is segregation.

 

Halo 5 is make or break, mostly because of the competitive players ruining an exceptional franchise by watering down the game with their stupid 'no AAs, no sprint, no flinch' gametypes. 343i needs to just completely disregard the competitive community in order to bring about Halo's salvation."

i'm not in agreement with any of what i just wrote. but my point is ur posts are nothing but persuasive crap that overtly preaches to the choir. PLEASE actually tell how an optional, non-core (ie not accounted for in the design process, not hardprogrammed, and not in the majority of playlists), and balanced (in the form of requiring picking up on the map and/or limiting usage) AA mechanic would be so destructive to the franchise. no, "they were in 4 and reach" is not an appropriate reason.

 

 

at the end of the day, hoping for a good debate over anything non-classic halo here is like hoping for a good debate over anything classic halo at waypoint. i think i will take a break from this forum, and silentraine feel free to neg me, or accuse me of being a butthurt ragequitter, or report me for attacking you. i don't mean to personally attack you, or your opinion, only the way in which you express your opinion. i'm not going to buy halo 5 either, so it doesn't really matter whether the community likes AAs or not. good day.

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firstly, how can an idea by 'false'? that is like answering "how many apples are in my orchard?" with "yes". if by 'false' you meant 'stupid', please actually elaborate rather than sitting back, bringing no arguments forth, negging me, then claiming i insult members of the site. also i noe they are not part of the core triangle mechanics, that's highly fucking irrelevant. that's like saying 'don't add the grenade launcher because grenade launchers weren't in halo before". yes, i'm at the point where i'm not bothered to argue properly anymore, and instead reflect ur crap back at u.

 

secondly, i've only attacked members in retaliation to their own hostility. you cud point out when i accused nabster of being 'nostalgic', because claiming someone has nostalgia for a game that i also love is such a low blow.

 

finally, this is why i 'attack' members of the site. because rather than actually discuss, you behave self-righteous and arrogant. 'a great series ruined because of a couple casual players' who the fuck are you? stop filling ur posts with irrelevant melodramatic bullshit. want me to mirror how u construct ur posts? (and i haven't attacked -you- yet, only ur post)

 

"You're totally wrong about visible ranks. Visible ranks have shown to be highly ineffective, as seen in Halo 2 and 3, where the games were riddled with cheaters and boosters. Competitive players like you are what is killing the series. We are at a crisis right now, and it's all because of the competitive community's constant bitching. Things like visible ranks, and no radar only further alienate and segregate the fanbase when the last thing our community needs right now is segregation.

 

Halo 5 is make or break, mostly because of the competitive players ruining an exceptional franchise by watering down the game with their stupid 'no AAs, no sprint, no flinch' gametypes. 343i needs to just completely disregard the competitive community in order to bring about Halo's salvation."

i'm not in agreement with any of what i just wrote. but my point is ur posts are nothing but persuasive crap that overtly preaches to the choir. PLEASE actually tell how an optional, non-core (ie not accounted for in the design process, not hardprogrammed, and not in the majority of playlists), and balanced (in the form of requiring picking up on the map and/or limiting usage) AA mechanic would be so destructive to the franchise. no, "they were in 4 and reach" is not an appropriate reason.

 

 

at the end of the day, hoping for a good debate over anything non-classic halo here is like hoping for a good debate over anything classic halo at waypoint. i think i will take a break from this forum, and silentraine feel free to neg me, or accuse me of being a butthurt ragequitter, or report me for attacking you. i don't mean to personally attack you, or your opinion, only the way in which you express your opinion. i'm not going to buy halo 5 either, so it doesn't really matter whether the community likes AAs or not. good day.

 

Read his post and then read your reply and then you might see why what he said could be be considered somewhat abrasive towards you while you went out of your way to be as hostile as possible.

You keep claiming you want other people to back up their opinions with facts and examples, while I have seen none from you apart from highly theorized what if constructs that add nothing to the discussion.

 

The grenade launcher albeit being sceptically recieved in the beginning is considered by many to be one of the few good NEW things outside of the classic halo formula.

Contrary to what you infer, people can differentiate between speed/damage boost and promethean vision.

Yes some people are blinded by nostalgia and think everything about h3 was super awesome because they played it all day back in highschool, disregarding all the things that made that game VERY mediocre outside of Heretic MLG CTF on LAN.

 

Since you specifically called me "nostalgic" I can tell you that I did start with h3 but I saw the flaws of that game VERY clearly as soon as I knew what they were. We should be playing H1 on LAN and H:R NBNS online to satisfy our competitive halo urge and not have to deal with the ridiculous online inconsistencies and bullet spread of H3.

 

You dont need to take a break from this forum you just need to provide your opinions with concrete examples you can argue with instead of redefining what is actually being talked about or making up "facts"

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if you had read his post then read my reply u'll noe exactly why i was being 'abrasive'. i'm not 'attacking' him for his opinion, you'll notice that not once have i talked smack to hitman. u'll notice he negs and passive-aggressively attacks anyone that disagrees with him (outside of this thread too), then indirectly blames those people for ruining halo. please search through a post where i do this, because according to silentraine i am a huge perpetrator of 'bad attitudes' and 'lack of understanding'.

i'll get to the second bit of ur first paragraph later.

 

let me start from the beginning coz that grenade launcher sentence i made honestly made no sense when i look back on it

I stated to hitman "i do see AAs as being a natural addition to the golden triangle."

SilentRaine stated "AA's have no reason to be kept in Halo, and no they are not a natural progression for Halo or part of the core triangle mechanics, it is called a triangle for a reason". Essentially he presumed two things; the golden triangle is important and 'adding' to the golden triangle is impossible because then it wouldn't be a triangle.

The former is wrong because vehicles, power items, and a slur of other shit has co-existed with guns, grenades and melee since the start, plus guns, grenades, and melee have never been balanced. A person (not specifically you or SilentRaine) who thinks 'guns, nades, and melee' are an integral aspect of Halo have a clear lack of understanding for what constitutes the game's core.

The latter is right, but doesn't matter given that a game can still be halo if it has things other than g/g/m. The whole 'golden triangle' bullshit was just a con-word invented by Bungie.

I don't get the 2nd part of ur paragraph. i never said anything along the lines of "AAs shud be added because dumb people wudnt notice it"...

 

i assumed u were biased to traditional halo because u were answering "should the next Halo Title have AA's?" with "they will always be implemented badly", basically you skipped two steps and based ur argument on "they'll always be bad" which u admitted urself that is not necessarily true "they can work - #169". in any case, i secede calling u 'blinded by nostalgia' - that was presumptuous of myself.

 

 

now, to ur "provide actual facts Ghostie" demand, i have tried several times...

1) Some people like AAs. This is fact. Labelling them as "care-free casuals who go back to playing CoD after finishing the camp" is not.

2) Custom gametype options/playlists allow those who dislike AAs to not play with them.

3) {okay so this is more opinion, but one that you'll probably understand} To be a part of the 'core' game, a mechanic must be hard-programmed, highly prevalent, taken into account when designing the rest of the game, and/or unable to be toggled off. An Armour Ability CAN be ADDED WHILST NOT BEING PART OF THE CORE GAME; keep it in a low number of playlists, make it optional in customs, don't design default maps for jetpack.

4) You still haven't answered the last paragraph of #170

ur changing the topic again to "will 343i implement AAs well?", to which i wud answer fuck no alongside you. but fix these three problems with AAs:

 

limitless usage - can fix by requiring picking up fuel canisters or something from the map, or just limiting them to one-time use

unpredictability - can fix by having a player's current AA being indicated

unhaloness - can fix by having them be on-map pickups, be only a minority of playlists, and/or be turned off in customs

 

and i really don't see why u'd still have a problem with them. also AAs are fun in campaign :3

 

5) Here's a fucking concrete example. VEHICLES. Add a fucking vehicle to a 4v4 MLG gametype and shit hits the fan. The Banshee destroys vertical map control (in 4v4) 10x more than a Jetpack. However, vehicles aren't in all playlists, aren't in all maps, can be removed from all playlists/maps, and most importantly can be enjoyable. Now switch the word 'vehicles' with 'armour abilities' and that's what I want in the next halo title. Tell me how this will ruin Halo 5 again plz

 

I also find it mighty hypocritical that you tell me to stop theorycrafting when you've never stopped doing so yourself. the only 'concrete example' of urs i saw was "i had a bad game of ragnarok neutral flag and involved in this experience were armour abilities. thus all bad games are a result of armour abilities." #169

 

 

yes i do need a break.

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You cant scrap something thats been here for two games now. I like AAs. A lot. They add flavor. I like what they did with Sanc putting two jet packs on each side. AA's in place of power weapons should be explored too. competitive speaking.

 

But for things like BTB. social slayer. Multi Team. Flood. etc.. AAs should definitely stay.

 

EDIT: okay i guess I was taken out of context. I like AA's. but they should be fought over. Things like ONE auto turret on the map, TWO hardlight shields on each side of the map, things like that.

 

No way in hell do I want classes with different AAs running around competitive play.

 

Its obvious that at the moment more people than not like AAs. So of course they should stay in Halo.

 

But for competitive Halo they need to be treated as power weapons. In the rare occasions they would be used, assuming the map supports it.

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You cant scrap something thats been here for two games now. I like AAs. A lot. They add flavor. I like what they did with Sanc putting two jet packs on each side. AA's in place of power weapons should be explored too. competitive speaking.

 

But for things like BTB. social slayer. Multi Team. Flood. etc.. AAs should definitely stay.

Yes you can. In fact Bungie and 343 did, Ranks were in H2+H3 but then they completely disappeared for Reach+H4 and look how that turned out. It's been proven in the last two Halo titles that AA's don't work unless they're merely custom options for people who want to use them for whatever gametype they want. 

 

I wouldn't mind having an ability like Thruster Pack or Hologram as an on-map pickup that players can fight over, but AA's break the game when you have several of them in loadouts where players choose different ones and it turns into a clusterfuck. It's also been proven that the devs are incapable of balancing them, some of them are beyond repair, like Armour Lock/Jetpack/Promethean Vision etc. 

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You cant scrap something thats been here for two games now. I like AAs. A lot. They add flavor. I like what they did with Sanc putting two jet packs on each side. AA's in place of power weapons should be explored too. competitive speaking.

 

But for things like BTB. social slayer. Multi Team. Flood. etc.. AAs should definitely stay.

 

You like that people could fly over the middle of Sanc and ignore map lay-outs? Sure, it may be a fun gimmick but it does more harm than good, it doesn't fit into the core game on a fight to fight basis/makes map control less important and thus AA's should not be part of the core game. If your going to expand on the Golden Triangle with a "4th wheel" of combat abilities, it better make the game better in 90+percent of the game modes both socially+competitively which has proven not to be true for AA's.

 

Its more realistic that one new universal "dodge-jump" like ability or wall-jumping ability could enhance the combat in a cool but non-game-breaking way following the model of equal starts for players with equipment/power-ups on the map rather than turning Halo into a random TF2 with the variable special abilities. I would love to hear from a 343/Bungie developer on if they think AA's have been successful with the majority of players without breaking the game, because it would be a lie if they said they do when they have taken them out of many play-lists because even they realize they simply do not work as the intended "4th wheel" of Halo combat and not all AA's work optimally in all team sizes and game-types(see HLS on small maps, jetpack on open maps, sprint on small maps, camo on large maps with snipers,ect...). Trying to radically change the core combat of a successful formula is rarely if ever successful, you have to take the approach of trying to "improve" the combat rather than "change it" or else you end up with an entirely different game and lose the identity and fan-base of the original successful formula.

 

To your point, dual-wielding, BR, CE pistol, health packs, equipment, all have lasted a maximum of 2 Halo installments(except the BR which has lasted 3)  so you very much can change direction without major backlash especially when a feature is highly controversial and not 100 percent right for the game in the first place. Bungie recognized this with dual-wielding, it wasn't the optimal way to do things spawning someone with a dual-wield able SMG. If 343 is smart they will see that spawning everyone with abilities is not a favorable feature for the majority of Halo players and not right as a core aspect of the combat.

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You cant scrap something thats been here for two games now. I like AAs. A lot. They add flavor. I like what they did with Sanc putting two jet packs on each side. AA's in place of power weapons should be explored too. competitive speaking.

 

But for things like BTB. social slayer. Multi Team. Flood. etc.. AAs should definitely stay.

tumblr_mbedvr47an1r9kz4wo1_250.gif

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I wouldn't mind having an ability like Thruster Pack or Hologram as an on-map pickup that players can fight over, but [email protected] break the game when you have several of them in loadouts where players choose different ones and it turns into a clusterfuck. It's also been proven that the devs are incapable of balancing them, some of them are beyond repair, like Armour Lock/Jetpack/Promethean Vision etc. And ShadowHD09 is handsome.

I fucking totally agree with this. 100000+ plus rep.

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You like that people could fly over the middle of Sanc and ignore map lay-outs? Sure, it may be a fun gimmick but it does more harm than good, it doesn't fit into the core game on a fight to fight basis/makes map control less important and thus AA's should not be part of the core game. If your going to expand on the Golden Triangle with a "4th wheel" of combat abilities, it better make the game better in 90+percent of the game modes both socially+competitively which has proven not to be true for AA's.

 

Its more realistic that one new universal "dodge-jump" like ability or wall-jumping ability could enhance the combat in a cool but non-game-breaking way following the model of equal starts for players with equipment/power-ups on the map rather than turning Halo into a random TF2 with the variable special abilities. I would love to hear from a 343/Bungie developer on if they think AA's have been successful with the majority of players without breaking the game, because it would be a lie if they said they do when they have taken them out of many play-lists because even they realize they simply do not work as the intended "4th wheel" of Halo combat and not all AA's work optimally in all team sizes and game-types(see HLS on small maps, jetpack on open maps, sprint on small maps, camo on large maps with snipers,ect...). Trying to radically change the core combat of a successful formula is rarely if ever successful, you have to take the approach of trying to "improve" the combat rather than "change it" or else you end up with an entirely different game and lose the identity and fan-base of the original successful formula.

 

To your point, dual-wielding, BR, CE pistol, health packs, equipment, all have lasted a maximum of 2 Halo installments(except the BR which has lasted 3)  so you very much can change direction without major backlash especially when a feature is highly controversial and not 100 percent right for the game in the first place. Bungie recognized this with dual-wielding, it wasn't the optimal way to do things spawning someone with a dual-wield able SMG. If 343 is smart they will see that spawning everyone with abilities is not a favorable feature for the majority of Halo players and not right as a core aspect of the combat.

No, i didnt. sorry I meant to say I like the idea of it. meaning if there are maps that can support them than it should be explored. Im too lazy to type exactly what I mean since Im in a huge minority of what could and should stay in Halo.  The next Halo title should have AAs, but dont think I mean that they should be in eSports competitive play at all times. only with the maps that could handle them.

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You cant scrap something thats been here for two games now. I like AAs. A lot. They add flavor. I like what they did with Sanc putting two jet packs on each side. AA's in place of power weapons should be explored too. competitive speaking.

 

But for things like BTB. social slayer. Multi Team. Flood. etc.. AAs should definitely stay.

tumblr_mbedvr47an1r9kz4wo1_250.gif

 

 

Stop.

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Yes you can. In fact Bungie and 343 did, Ranks were in H2+H3 but then they completely disappeared for Reach+H4 and look how that turned out. It's been proven in the last two Halo titles that AA's don't work unless they're merely custom options for people who want to use them for whatever gametype they want. 

 

I wouldn't mind having an ability like Thruster Pack or Hologram as an on-map pickup that players can fight over, but [email protected] break the game when you have several of them in loadouts where players choose different ones and it turns into a clusterfuck. It's also been proven that the devs are incapable of balancing them, some of them are beyond repair, like Armour Lock/Jetpack/Promethean Vision etc. 

 

thats exactly what i meant...

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Its obvious that at the moment more people than not like AAs. So of course they should stay in Halo.

Uhh, yeah, maybe out of the 15k left on Halo 4 atm... but in general, the majority hate AA's. CE-H3 were arena shooters and they were all popular and successful. Reach+H4 are arena/class based clusterfucks and coincidentally both feature AA's, the vast majority of gamers do not like these games. 

 

We had over 400k peaking on H4 but so many left because of these things such as AA's that aren't Halo. 

 

thats exactly what i meant...

 

I replied to you before your edit. 

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