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Sam

Why No Sprint needs to be universal for Halo 5

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Eventually, CoD will be replaced by something better.  Happens to every game.

So Cod is better than Halo which it replaced?

 

My guess is the top next-gen game will be some hyper-realistic, graphics-focused shooter that is utterly boring.

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So Cod is better than Halo which it replaced?

 

To those who prefer it, yes.  And since more seem to prefer CoD at the moment, then objectively, we could conclude that CoD is better.

 

We could also objectively conclude that CoD is a steaming P.O.S. if we define "better" as something other than aggregate player preference.  Feel free to define better however you wish and conclude whatever results from that definition.  My post was not intended to incite a semantics argument.

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To those who prefer it, yes.  And since more seem to prefer CoD at the moment, then objectively, we could conclude that CoD is better.

 

We could also objectively conclude that CoD is a steaming P.O.S. if we define "better" as something other than aggregate player preference.  Feel free to define better however you wish and conclude whatever results from that definition.  My post was not intended to incite a semantics argument.

My point was that we cannot hope for Halo to return to its roots purely because COD will be replaced.

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Eventually, CoD will be replaced by something better.  Happens to every game.

 

While it may not be incredibly likely, it would be incredibly awesome if H5 was that better game.

The difference was, when Halo was at its prime, CoD wasn't that far behind in terms of popularity. So it wasn't out of the question that it could one day become the no.1 FPS. Halo is currently so dead and buried that even if the perfect Halo was made, I can't see it returning to its former glory. The other thing is, Halo doesn't really appeal to the younger audience any more. The average 11 or 12 year old just plays CoD these days. The future just isn't bright from what I can see. 

 

That's not to say that H5 won't a great game. I honestly have great confidence that it will kick serious ass. I just can't see it ever overtaking CoD again.

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. I just can't see it ever overtaking CoD again.

 

Neither do I.

 

However, it would still be incredibly awesome if it did. 

 

 

My point was that we cannot hope for Halo to return to its roots purely because COD will be replaced.

 

Neither was mine.

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I really wish maps here navigable without sprint. I'm not sure I speak for all casuals, but H4 is my first Halo, so it's not like I'm looking through nostalgia goggles.

 

BTW, I imagine the reason most casuals like sprint is because the maps are frickin HUGE and it takes forever to get anywhere without it. So 4v4 and smaller . . . I don't think most casuals will give a crap if it's there or not. All they want is to be able to get back into action without falling asleep first.

 

With that said, if you want both vehicular and infantry play for BTB, keeping those same settings may turn a lot of casuals off. For proper vehicular play, BTB maps need to be fairly large. Keeping movement speed the same as 4v4 will be noticed as a negative by casuals. Sprint does not necessarily need to be there, but some consideration should be given to either sprint or a faster base movement speed and no sprint in the BTB playlists. I would prefer the latter, as I think it would make for better map design.

 

P.S. If most casuals understood how sprint hurts map design, I think they would prefer a game without it.

Golden comment. Casuals think Sprint is good (generally) because the maps in Halo 4 are so big; take Sprint out and you can have smaller maps that play even better. Even BTB maps are easier to design without having to worry about Sprint. A faster movement speed (paired with responsive movement, not this "stop for one frame" stuff) is a must; large maps are perfectly navigable with the proper use of vehicles, man-cannons, and teleporters.

And there's such a thing as BTB on small maps. It's even more chaotic than Halo 4 is with Sprint, but without Sprint it's a controlled chaos (it has a lot to do with spawning). 8v8 on Midship was amazing. It's sad to know that that map wouldn't play as well with Sprint.

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It's not just the inclusion of sprint and other features in Reach and H4 which has reduced populations. You need to also look at the impact CoD has had on the video game market. Even if you removed all the shit that H4 has introduced for the next Halo title, there would still be a lot of casual players who jumped ship for MW2/BO1 a few years ago who will never play much Halo again. Honestly I think we're just gonna have to accept that the battle of online populations has been lost. We can do our best to bring back a few players, but most of these will be competitive players who enjoyed the feeling of Halo's 1-3, rather than the casuals that we lost to CoD a few years back. I just think the damage is pretty much done already :(

Agreed, but a lot of people left Halo and went to the most familiar FPS to them, CoD. If Halo kept improving each game, I'm sure we'd still be seeing Halo 3 population numbers.

 

400k players played Halo 4 which still had Sprint/no descope etc, that people saw in the pre launch gameplay, imagine if the game was actually good. We'd probably have seen 500k~ online on the first weekend with a small decrease when Blops2 released. Even if it dropped to 200-300k, that would be considered pretty damn good.

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Agreed, but a lot of people left Halo and went to the most familiar FPS to them, CoD. If Halo kept improving each game, I'm sure we'd still be seeing Halo 3 population numbers.

 

400k players played Halo 4 which still had Sprint/no descope etc, that people saw in the pre launch gameplay, imagine if the game was actually good. We'd probably have seen 500k~ online on the first weekend with a small decrease when Blops2 released. Even if it dropped to 200-300k, that would be considered pretty damn good.

 

200k would be glorious for H5. I'm just not sure it will ever happen.

 

The fact is, Halo is still a massive franchise. People will still buy the game at launch to play the campaign and play a few games of matchmaking. But that's the thing. Very few of those players still play the game months after its released. They buy the game, complete the campaign, play online for about a week and then stop playing. 

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200k would be glorious for H5. I'm just not sure it will ever happen.

 

The fact is, Halo is still a massive franchise. People will still buy the game at launch to play the campaign and play a few games of matchmaking. But that's the thing. Very few of those players still play the game months after its released. They buy the game, complete the campaign, play online for about a week and then stop playing. 

It's all dependant on their first impressions. The reason why people left Reach and Halo 4 so quickly was due to, but not limited to, no ingame ranks, bad maps, Sprint, bloom, no descope, flinch, bad launch playlists, and AA's. 

 

If Halo 5 launches well, and has pretty much all of the big things we've been asking for as a community, I'm sure people will stick around. People love Halo, but when you give them no incentive to keep playing (ingame ranks with a social/ranked divide), they just leave because it's not fun.

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I def agree with the OT and have been saying it for a while also. Putting sprint in some playlists but not in others  will lead to more separation amongst the Halo community.

 

Lets face it: competitive players CAN adapt to sprint and cross over.

 

I am, however, not sure if this is the case the other way around.

Because of the risk that causals can't/won't adapt to no-sprint gametypes and consequently not cross over, no-sprint HAS to be consistently applied across the board.

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I don't care if they fix everything else. If I see a glimpse of sprint in the upcoming Halo 5 trailers/gameplays -- I'm not buying it. Period.

The same goes if they fix sprint, but leave AA's in. 
 

Not just toggling it on/off in settings. It needs to be COMPLETELY gone. 

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For the love of god copy and paste Halo 2 movement into the next Halo and make the maps like the trilogy and you got a winner. Halo 2 movement>

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Halo 2 had perhaps the best physics and movement of the series, and it actually had destructible elements on the maps, as well as things within the map environments that could be manipulated. There is no reason for 343 not to take influence from Halo CE, 2, for the next game's physics and movement, and if they do not then they have already failed in my opinion.

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Halo 2 had perhaps the best physics and movement of the series, and it actually had destructible elements on the maps, as well as things within the map environments that could be manipulated. There is no reason for 343 not to take influence from Halo CE, 2, for the next game's physics and movement, and if they do not then they have already failed in my opinion.

Funny how the community can usually agree on what aspects of each Halo was best, and putting those aspects together or taking inspiration from the series itself instead of other games would be best after the disaster spin-offs of Reach+H4 MP.

 

Movement and physics- Halo 2 with CE crouch

 

Aiming and AA levels- Halo CE projectile, or Halo CE AA levels with accurate hit-scan weapons.

 

Sandbox- Halo CE with variety of other Halo games namely Halo 2(namely BR+sword), Halo 4

 

Map design- Mix of Halo CE Assyms and unique map design and Halo 2's Symms and BTB maps

 

MM- Halo 3's balance of social/ranked play-lists and double XP weekends(genius, just genius) with Halo 2's MM difficulty and possibly clan MM

 

Features- Halo 3 Theater, Halo 4 Forge, New additions: Spec mode, in-game streams, something like Spartan Ops or Firefight

 

Core game- Golden Triangle with weapon/AA's/power-ups on the map with the ability to choose primary and secondary weapon but nothing else.

 

Annual "Halo global championships" for tons of cash, and online tournaments now that we have dedicated servers.

 

And there you have it, the :goat: Halo MP game.

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Funny how the community can usually agree on what aspects of each Halo was best, and putting those aspects together or taking inspiration from the series itself instead of other games would be best after the disaster spin-offs of Reach+H4 MP.

 

Movement and physics- Halo 2 with CE crouch

 

Aiming and AA levels- Halo CE projectile, or Halo CE AA levels with accurate hit-scan weapons.

 

Sandbox- Halo CE with variety of other Halo games namely Halo 2(namely BR+sword), Halo 4

 

Map design- Mix of Halo CE Assyms and unique map design and Halo 2's Symms and BTB maps

 

MM- Halo 3's balance of social/ranked play-lists and double XP weekends(genius, just genius) with Halo 2's MM difficulty and possibly clan MM

 

Features- Halo 3 Theater, Halo 4 Forge, New additions: Spec mode, in-game streams, something like Spartan Ops or Firefight

 

Core game- Golden Triangle with weapon/AA's/power-ups on the map with the ability to choose primary and secondary weapon but nothing else.

 

Annual "Halo global championships" for tons of cash, and online tournaments now that we have dedicated servers.

 

And there you have it, the :goat: Halo MP game.

projectile sucks for online play. hitscan all the fucking way. Also I think most forgers dislike halo 4's forge. You need to have a mix of halo 4+ reach stuff that was removed *and* new features such as *color pallets* for use.

 

Ultimate new feature: custom game searches.

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projectile sucks for online play. hitscan all the fucking way. Also I think most forgers dislike halo 4's forge. You need to have a mix of halo 4+ reach stuff that was removed *and* new features such as *color pallets* for use.

 

Ultimate new feature: custom game searches.

 

    Projectile is only bad if the net-code is bad like H3, with Halo's mechanics recoil and bloom dont make much sense with longer kill-times on standard weapons/R+G combat style but projectile works best with games like UT and Halo to a lesser extent where you live longer and movement is more varied and quicker. The default movement speed/strafe speed would need to at least be at H2 levels maybe faster for primary projectile weapons like UT's shock rifle or Halo CE's magnum to work properly but when they do work the dynamics and skill they add to a Sandbox shooter is a thing of beauty. Think about Halo Reach's GL for example, it added a whole new weapon type to the game and was not as simple as lining up head-shots. You could hit your enemy from virtually any position with the right timing and angle, knowing the environment was as important as accuracy with this projectile weapon.

 

There would still be Hit-scan weapons like the AR and BR, but in a Sandbox environment projectile weapons are ideal in my opinion that would bring meaningful innovation for the Halo series that makes sense. It would be fun as fuck to blow Elites/Prometheans up in Campaign from behind cover/predict their movements and add a whole new way to approach battles in campaign. Do I want to take a straight up Guns blazing approach and whittle the enemy down, or do i want to use my prediction skills and badass projectile weapons to skillfully pick enemies off in 1-2 shots? I am a huge proponent of the power of projectile weapons as you can probably tell  ^_^

 

Custom game searches would be awesome as well, I believe in Halo MP so much and I want to love it again but 343 has to show the MP that same love Bungie did in their craftsmanship.

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It's all dependant on their first impressions. The reason why people like Reach and Halo 4 so quickly was due to, but not limited to, no ingame ranks, bad maps, Sprint, bloom, no descope, flinch, bad launch playlists, and AA's. 

 

If Halo 5 launches well, and has pretty much all of the big things we've been asking for as a community, I'm sure people will stick around. People love Halo, but when you give them no incentive to keep playing (ingame ranks with a social/ranked divide), they just leave because it's not fun.

 

Yeah good point. I'm honestly quite confident that the game at release will be damn good. And although it sucks that there's at least another year until it comes out, it means they won't rush the game. There's plenty of time to change things before November 2014 (assuming that's when its released). Thing is though, they do have to hit the nail on the head from day one.

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It's not just the inclusion of sprint and other features in Reach and H4 which has reduced populations. You need to also look at the impact CoD has had on the video game market. Even if you removed all the shit that H4 has introduced for the next Halo title, there would still be a lot of casual players who jumped ship for MW2/BO1 a few years ago who will never play much Halo again. Honestly I think we're just gonna have to accept that the battle of online populations has been lost. We can do our best to bring back a few players, but most of these will be competitive players who enjoyed the feeling of Halo's 1-3, rather than the casuals that we lost to CoD a few years back. I just think the damage is pretty much done already :(

Its no so much the casuals we lost, its the competitive casuals. A lot of them play CoD but would gladly switch over any day if we get a Halo game that makes sense. Ranks really were a big one cause it somewhat ensured proper fair matches.

 

Yup

The fact Objective was BR/AR starts really says a lot about precision rifle starts. Unlike in Slayer you don't have a chance to pussy foot around so Bungie figured it was a necessity to have a versatile primary weapon. Thank the lord! Just imagine trying to stop a flag cap with that lousy AR...

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Agreed. Even if you look at just one aspect of the game - map design - you realise it has to be one or the other. And, since sprint totally destroys Halo (And this should be understandable to anyone with the slightest understanding of the game) I highly suggest we have no sprint across the board...

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343 is either convinced that Halo in its natural state won't sell, or they're too dense to realize the damage sprint has on Halo's gameplay. 

 

 

They'd have to be bone idol morons to think the first, so urm....

 

they're too dense to realize the damage sprint has on Halo's gameplay. 

 

 

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It even kind of bothers me a bit when people say "keep sprint for BTB".  All that does is make the few close quarters encounters more derpy and devalue vehicles as a transportation resource.

 

Anyway, I agree completely. Sprint has to be off by default for no sprint to really gain and widespread momentum.

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It even kind of bothers me a bit when people say "keep sprint for BTB".  All that does is make the few close quarters encounters more derpy and devalue vehicles as a transportation resource.

 

Anyway, I agree completely. Sprint has to be off by default for no sprint to really gain and widespread momentum.

Exactly, having one playlist with Sprint but the rest of the game without is a bad idea, it separates that community and special maps would have to be made just for that playlist.

 

Remember in Halo 3 where you would play Valhalla 4v4 etc

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