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Halo 5 Matchmaking: Ranking System

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Your mind must be easily boggled.

 

And I didn't say it covers all of it, just that it's a better method than the OP and much easier to understand. Do you think players should - or should not, understand when and why they can expect to rank up?

 

The qualifier, week off, 10 days, DNF, same division, blah, blah FUCKING BLAH! Is a complicated bunch of gobbeldy-gook that confuses players and only serves to make the person who designed it feel smart.

 

Look at football or baseball, who gets into the post season - the teams with the best win/loss record. This shit isn't complicated.

 

Maybe it would be better if we factored in the travel distance for the teams and the total team salary and the fucking gameday weather before deciding who really deserves to make the playoffs.

Yeah, people don't like ranking systems with divisions and qualifiers. Just look at Starcraft, LoL, and CoD, they have divisions and a bunch of gobbeldy-gook and no one likes those games, right? /s

 

Ranking systems like the ones in other games have greatly improved on the old H2/H3 1-50 system. To stick with a system like that just for the sake of nostalgia would be foolish in my mind.

 

 

You still are under the delusion that you can stat trying to find who is "working their ass off".  You assume that k/d is an accurate measure of which player on the team is being "a good teammate" that is trying his "ass off".  It could (and often is) a common occurrence for a player to have a worse k/d assists ratio but still do more for their team.  It is more common for a separation of players such as -3 and -6 (where k/d is alone cannot accurately determine who did more) than it is for a separation like -3, -17 where in 99.99% of cases the player who went -3 obviously did more for his team.  Like I said- individual csr is decent for when there is a massive difference in skill between players, but if there isn't than trying to stat the game will only make it worse.

 

It does not matter at all whether your individual csr only takes place on the losing team- all what that means is that stat whores will be rewarded on the losing team.  So if you are losing a game of CTF you might as well say "fuck it" and just try and pad your k/d instead of helping your teammate capture a flag by distracting his pursuers.

 

Just take out all the excess garbage, and I agree jermoesix that simpler is better- to determine whether the previous game had a positive or negative effect on your placing should be as simple as knowing whether you won or loss.

 

One of things I think is wrong with the community and it's discussions is the ability to concede a point or learn from a debate. Your reply has me convinced, and I have changed my opinion on the matter :) The main reservation I saw in a win/loss based system was that people without a mic/teammates would be punished. But on the other hand, having a few Social playlists for these people instead of making them play in a ranked playlist would probably work.

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I have changed my mind (kind of). Team Slayer ranks should be based off of W/L.

 

HOWEVER, the other ranked playlists (SWAT, Snipers, and BTB) naturally have a lot less teamwork involved so they should remain under the w/l and individual system. I mean, lets be honest, is it stat whoring to put up 20+ kills in snipers or swat? No. Its just a simple matter of you are much better at that gametype than the opposing players.

 

Just because you put up good numbers and you lost doesn't make you a stat whore.

 

League Play is still based off of W/L

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Yeah, people don't like ranking systems with divisions and qualifiers. Just look at Starcraft, LoL, and CoD, they have divisions and a bunch of gobbeldy-gook and no one likes those games, right? /s

 

Ranking systems like the ones in other games have greatly improved on the old H2/H3 1-50 system. To stick with a system like that just for the sake of nostalgia would be foolish.

Those games aren't Halo. In fact two of them aren't even FPS. Halo is unique enough to warrant it's own system.

 

The funny thing is I never said I want the old system from H2 or H3, or even a win/loss alone. I just think it's better than what is suggested in the OP.

 

What is needed is a system that actually judges based on skill - and your league division wouldn't be based on qualifying but on your skill. If a skill system works there would never be games played "out of division."

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I have changed my mind (kind of). Team Slayer ranks should be based off of W/L.

 

HOWEVER, the other ranked playlists (SWAT, Snipers, and BTB) naturally have a lot less teamwork involved so they should remain under the w/l and individual system. I mean, lets be honest, is it stat whoring to put up 20+ kills in snipers or swat? No. Its just a simple matter of you are much better at that gametype than the opposing players.

 

Just because you put up good numbers and you lost doesn't make you a stat whore.

 

League Play is still based off of W/L

I'm sorry it is redundant. You have a playlist for the best of the best and a playlist for the rest. But their purpose is the same just the way it works is different. You might as well just have one since they are virtually the same thing. Your dividing up the player base too much.

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I have changed my mind (kind of). Team Slayer ranks should be based off of W/L.

 

HOWEVER, the other ranked playlists (SWAT, Snipers, and BTB) naturally have a lot less teamwork involved so they should remain under the w/l and individual system. I mean, lets be honest, is it stat whoring to put up 20+ kills in snipers or swat? No. Its just a simple matter of you are much better at that gametype than the opposing players.

 

Just because you put up good numbers and you lost doesn't make you a stat whore.

 

You continue to only look at extreme scenarios where there is a massive disparity between relative k/d's.  Once again, individual csr works relatively well for situations where there is a large gap in skill, but if the population is large enough to where that only occurs rarely than w/l only is the way to go.  And who are you to say that swat, snipers, and btb require less teamwork?  If anything BTB would require more teamwork in a hypothetical situation where full teams are playing against each other.  You personally may not put much teamwork into swat when you search alone but that has nothing to do with the playlist by itself evaluated on an objective basis.  Even in swat you can do things to benefit the team that stats will never be able to show- such as forcing spawns, watching back angles, communicating, etc.  Statting the game will always be imperfect.  Always.  If you base it on w/l than all what that means is that you have to do whatever it takes for your team to win.  Are you losing a lot because your teammates drag you down in team snipers?  To bad, that's what you get for searching alone in team snipers.  

 

The primary objective in any game of halo is to win- not to pad your k/d.  The only way to truthfully measure a players ability to win in a particular playslist is to literally calculate their ability to win in that playlist.  If you are playing in team snipers and you have a bad team than you shouldn't go up.  That's the point of team playlists.

 

And even if you are searching by yourself, if the population is large enough to create a decent rank progression you will still be matched with players at roughly your skill level, so it won't matter- which is exactly how halo 2 and halo 3 worked.

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You continue to only look at extreme scenarios where there is a massive disparity between relative k/d's.  Once again, individual csr works relatively well for situations where there is a large gap in skill, but if the population is large enough to where that only occurs rarely than w/l only is the way to go.  And who are you to say that swat, snipers, and btb require less teamwork?  If anything BTB would require more teamwork in a hypothetical situation where full teams are playing against each other.  You personally may not put much teamwork into swat when you search alone but that has nothing to do with the playlist by itself evaluated on an objective basis.  Even in swat you can do things to benefit the team that stats will never be able to show- such as forcing spawns, watching back angles, communicating, etc.  Statting the game will always be imperfect.  Always.  If you base it on w/l than all what that means is that you have to do whatever it takes for your team to win.  Are you losing a lot because your teammates drag you down in team snipers?  To bad, that's what you get for searching alone in team snipers.  

 

The primary objective in any game of halo is to win- not to pad your k/d.  The only way to truthfully measure a players ability to win in a particular playslist is to literally calculate their ability to win in that playlist.  If you are playing in team snipers and you have a bad team than you shouldn't go up.  That's the point of team playlists.

 

And even if you are searching by yourself, if the population is large enough to create a decent rank progression you will still be matched with players at roughly your skill level, so it won't matter- which is exactly how halo 2 and halo 3 worked.

you and jerome both make very good points but were just gonna never see eye to eye on this particular topic lol. You wanna give your thought on the league system? lol

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Your mind must be easily boggled.

 

And I didn't say it covers all of it, just that it's a better method than the OP and much easier to understand. Do you think players should - or should not, understand when and why they can expect to rank up?

 

The qualifier, week off, 10 days, DNF, same division, blah, blah FUCKING BLAH! Is a complicated bunch of gobbeldy-gook that confuses players and only serves to make the person who designed it feel smart.

 

Look at football or baseball, who gets into the post season - the teams with the best win/loss record. This shit isn't complicated.

 

Maybe it would be better if we factored in the travel distance for the teams and the total team salary and the fucking gameday weather before deciding who really deserves to make the playoffs.

If I was Josh Menke, I would feel very smart after Black Ops 2 and Starcraft 2. You should stop now.

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If I was Josh Menke, I would feel very smart after Black Ops 2 and Starcraft 2. You should stop now.

 

Why? Just because the game is popular doesn't mean the ranking is any good. Below are some quotes.

 

 

"Players are placed in a league after having completed 5 placement matches. After that, a player may get moved to another league, depending on performance. Though the time and frequency of these movements are kept explicitly hidden."

 

Why is it hidden? They are purposefully trying to confuse players and keep them in the dark as to how the system works.

 

 

Ratio of Players per League in Heart of the Swarm League Targeted Ratio of Active Players

Grandmaster 200 players

Master 2%

Diamond 18%

Platinum 20%

Gold 32%

Silver 20%

Bronze 8%

 

Notice how one league contains a third of all the players. Is that because it works well? Or just to make sure people don't get their fellings hurt? A large chunck of players in one league means there will be inequitable matchups. I'm for a small top league but the rest should be more even.

 

j8UqBXb.png

 

Oh good, that clears it up.

 

Matchmaking Rating decides which opponents a player will meet, and tries to quantify their skill level. If a Seasonal Placement Match was not played last season, then MMR and uncertainty are both reset to their default values and the system effectively "forgets" about that player.

 

Don't take a vacation or take a month to study for exams - or you lose your skill rating. Not your standings, or league placement but your whole skill rating. Apparently if Ogre2 took a month of of Halo 2 he would have sucked ass when he came back.

 

 

 

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

 

Halo is saved.

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Why? Just because the game is popular doesn't mean the ranking is any good. Below are some quotes.

 

 

"Players are placed in a league after having completed 5 placement matches. After that, a player may get moved to another league, depending on performance. Though the time and frequency of these movements are kept explicitly hidden."

 

Why is it hidden? They are purposefully trying to confuse players and keep them in the dark as to how the system works.

 

 

Ratio of Players per League in Heart of the Swarm League Targeted Ratio of Active Players

Grandmaster 200 players

Master 2%

Diamond 18%

Platinum 20%

Gold 32%

Silver 20%

Bronze 8%

 

Notice how one league contains a third of all the players. Is that because it works well? Or just to make sure people don't get their fellings hurt? A large chunck of players in one league means there will be inequitable matchups. I'm for a small top league but the rest should be more even.

 

j8UqBXb.png

 

Oh good, that clears it up.

 

Matchmaking Rating decides which opponents a player will meet, and tries to quantify their skill level. If a Seasonal Placement Match was not played last season, then MMR and uncertainty are both reset to their default values and the system effectively "forgets" about that player.

 

Don't take a vacation or take a month to study for exams - or you lose your skill rating. Not your standings, or league placement but your whole skill rating. Apparently if Ogre2 took a month of of Halo 2 he would have sucked ass when he came back.

 

 

 

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

 

Halo is saved.

This is Starcraft 2's ranking system... the best ranking system of all time...

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Why? Just because the game is popular doesn't mean the ranking is any good. Below are some quotes.

 

 

"Players are placed in a league after having completed 5 placement matches. After that, a player may get moved to another league, depending on performance. Though the time and frequency of these movements are kept explicitly hidden."

 

Why is it hidden? They are purposefully trying to confuse players and keep them in the dark as to how the system works.

 

 

Ratio of Players per League in Heart of the Swarm League Targeted Ratio of Active Players

Grandmaster 200 players

Master 2%

Diamond 18%

Platinum 20%

Gold 32%

Silver 20%

Bronze 8%

 

Notice how one league contains a third of all the players. Is that because it works well? Or just to make sure people don't get their fellings hurt? A large chunck of players in one league means there will be inequitable matchups. I'm for a small top league but the rest should be more even.

 

j8UqBXb.png

 

Oh good, that clears it up.

 

Matchmaking Rating decides which opponents a player will meet, and tries to quantify their skill level. If a Seasonal Placement Match was not played last season, then MMR and uncertainty are both reset to their default values and the system effectively "forgets" about that player.

 

Don't take a vacation or take a month to study for exams - or you lose your skill rating. Not your standings, or league placement but your whole skill rating. Apparently if Ogre2 took a month of of Halo 2 he would have sucked ass when he came back.

 

 

 

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

"z" will be greater than zero when your bonus pool is > 0. In which case z = 12 + x, permitted you have enough points in your bonus pool.

 

Halo is saved.

Just imagine if for example we had 1000 teams of 4 in the next game that played this playlist. Then out of those 1000 we would have lets say 16 teams that would be at the highest rank. It would be the biggest grind ever.

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Just imagine if for example we had 1000 teams of 4 in the next game that played this playlist. Then out of those 1000 we would have lets say 16 teams that would be at the highest rank. It would be the biggest grind ever.

 

You just revealed your ignorance. The biggest grind ever has already happened - 1996, hosted by Dave Chappel

 

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You just revealed your ignorance. The biggest grind ever has already happened - 1996, hosted by Dave Chappel

 

Well... at least you made me laugh  :lxthul:

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Your mind must be easily boggled.

 

And I didn't say it covers all of it, just that it's a better method than the OP and much easier to understand. Do you think players should - or should not, understand when and why they can expect to rank up?

 

The qualifier, week off, 10 days, DNF, same division, blah, blah FUCKING BLAH! Is a complicated bunch of gobbeldy-gook that confuses players and only serves to make the person who designed it feel smart.

 

Look at football or baseball, who gets into the post season - the teams with the best win/loss record. This shit isn't complicated.

 

Maybe it would be better if we factored in the travel distance for the teams and the total team salary and the fucking gameday weather before deciding who really deserves to make the playoffs.

 

The ranking system he presented wasnt hard to understand at all. He's also not a professional video game multiplayer designer to my knowledge, so obviously the guy creating it (who in fact is exactly that and has already created one) would be able to perfect this sort of idea to most effectively make it fair and functional.  The league play is actually very successful in all those other games, and you dont have to hide the way the ranking system works and keep people in the dark, just post the details of how it works on halowaypoint's website.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't take a vacation or take a month to study for exams - or you lose your skill rating. Not your standings, or league placement but your whole skill rating. Apparently if Ogre2 took a month of of Halo 2 he would have sucked ass when he came back.

 

 

 

The point of moving up and down within leagues is the fact that you are playing, and winning more matches than others.  Therefore if you do take a break, you're going to go down in rank because you aren't playing games therefore you arent winning games.  We dont have to copy an EXACT model from another game, just use the general idea as the basis and cater it to halo mechanics.  That's not to say in this case Ogre 2 would suck ass, it would just mean other people have made gains over him because they were active when he wasnt.  Since he was amazing, he would just have to put the time in and reclaim his spot.  Which would be the same for all players.  If you took a hiatus, you would have to come back, play games, win, and prove yourself again, and if you are truly deserving of whatever rank you were before you left, it wouldnt be a problem getting back to that spot.

 

That's not to say that I agree with the OP however. I just think that there is more than one option to having a successful ranking system in Halo and I think some sort of league system COULD work.

 

I personally enjoyed the W/L systems from h2/h3.  Yeah it blows when you get matched with shitty teammates, derankers, quitters, blah blah blah etc.  But that just promotes finding players you mesh well with and forming teams which ultimately would help the competitive scene too cause more people would attend events.

 

Ultimately, any ranking system that's in the game won't work if there's no one playing the game, so the game actually has to be good functionally with its core mechanics first, then the ranking system will ultimately determine its longevity; whether it be win/loss or some sort of league, as long as it makes sense and is competitive I don't care what it is.

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The point of moving up and down within leagues is the fact that you are playing, and winning more matches than others.  Therefore if you do take a break, you're going to go down in rank because you aren't playing games therefore you arent winning games.

 

 

I have no problem going down in league standings when you don't play, but not in skill rating. Those are two very different things. Your "skill" should never reset under any conditions. In Halo 3 people would buy a 50 and just sit on it. So everyone thinks skill should reset.

 

But it doesn't need to.  This is the benefit of leagues - people might "get their 50" but that 50 doesn't mean anything except what skill you are.  If you want it to affect your STANDINGS then you need to play.

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