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I think crouching and jumping add unnecessary complexity to the game. We should make those abilities on map pick ups.

Not what I meant. Crouching and jumping are necessary to move around the map. I'm not shooting down your idea, just pointing out that it is similar to evade, sprint, and thruster pack, all of which have broken maps in the past if everybody has them offspawn. Which is what it seems you are suggesting. I'm merely pointing out that it hasn't worked in the past, and it would need heavy testing.

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I think crouching and jumping add unnecessary complexity to the game. We should make those abilities on map pick ups.

Don't start with the extremes, please. It's a cheap argument tactic and it doesn't get anyone anywhere.

 

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Can you point me to your source for Thruster, or one second of Sprint duration, breaking maps?

Get out of jail free cards, makes HLG spots easier or possible to get to, makes scaling maps more difficult because of certain jumps now possible with thrust, but not with flag, etc. Like I said, I'm not shooting it down. Just saying it would need the right maps and a lot of testing. It would be easier to not include it.

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It was pretty fun! All of em are uploaded on www.youtube.com/MArsunist, so you can head on over there and check out some previous ones as well :)

How long until this recent one comes up? Was the thread discussed at all? Thanks for the link :)

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Get out of jail free cards, makes HLG spots easier or possible to get to, makes scaling maps more difficult because of certain jumps now possible with thrust, but not with flag, etc. Like I said, I'm not shooting it down. Just saying it would need the right maps and a lot of testing. It would be easier to not include it.

Not to be a dick but what you are really saying is " I haven't tried any of those. I am just theorizing."

 

That's OK though. Maybe the experience of actually playing these type of gametypes may change your mind.

 

Of course it would be easier to never change anything. The hard part is making the right changes.

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Not to be a **** but what you are really saying is " I haven't tried any of those. I am just theorizing."

 

That's OK though. Maybe the experience of actually playing these type of gametypes may change your mind.

 

Of course it would be easier to never change anything. The hard part is making the right changes.

You just posted exactly what I've been saying.. It's untested, and would need lots of testing. If they can't test it, then just get rid of it. Much easier.

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I completely agree.  One of the most frustrating elements of Halo 4 is when you have a player weak and they turn around and run away out of the line of fire, and you have to chase them and then to shoot them you have to stop sprinting which allows them to get away that bit further.  However, I believe it to be quite unlikely that sprint would be removed all-together, as much as I'd like it I just can't see it happening.  I want a real Halo game and it doesn't feel like we've had one since Halo 3.  It feels like these post launch updates are getting us closer, though I don't understand why 343 put so much randomness into the game in the first game.  Halo needs to return to what it did so well in multiplayer from Halo 1, 2 and 3.  I have many friends (that didn't buy Halo: Reach) who bought Halo 4 expecting it to be like Halo 3 only to put it down within days.  I have asked them all why and the recurring themes are sprint, armour abilities and ordnance. Halo 5 needs to go back to the roots of Halo and build upon them, not continue to change them. 

 

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You just posted exactly what I've been saying.. It's untested, and would need lots of testing. If they can't test it, then just get rid of it. Much easier.

I have played hundreds of games with no sprint/thruster and I have also played tens of games with one second sprint/no thruster. To liken either of those to vanilla sprint is nothing short of ridiculous in my eyes.

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What's up with Assists?!?!? I don't necessarily rage because I don't get an assist when I put 4 shots in the person, but I don't understand it...

Dude, this happened to me my first game today in throwdown on Haven TS. Shot about 5 people 2-3 bursts, got no assists..  :\

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I have played hundreds of games with no sprint/thruster and I have also played tens of games with one second sprint/no thruster. To liken either of those to vanilla sprint is nothing short of ridiculous in my eyes.

I'm saying they have some similar issues, not that they play the same.

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I'm saying they have some similar issues, not that they play the same.

The only thing is see one second of sprint doing is allowing players to make longer horizontal jumps. They won't be running away from battles when they're out of position and one shot. They won't be respawning and sprinting directly back to mid. By drastically decreasing the duration of sprint, and increasing the cooldown period, it becomes a tactical maneuver rather than the button than you just constantly mash in any situation.

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The only thing is see one second of sprint doing is allowing players to make longer horizontal jumps. They won't be running away from battles when they're out of position and one shot. They won't be respawning and sprinting directly back to mid. By drastically decreasing the duration of sprint, and increasing the cooldown period, it becomes a tactical maneuver rather than the button than you just constantly mash in any situation.

I can hop on board with that. I don't like how you can get around corners faster though, and I feel like the jumping distance could really be an issue. Like I said though, it needs testing. Watch Ambush vs Warriors scrim an 11 game series with it, then we'll know for sure.

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I can hop on board with that. I don't like how you can get around corners faster though, and I feel like the jumping distance could really be an issue. Like I said though, it needs testing. Watch Ambush vs Warriors scrim an 11 game series with it, then we'll know for sure.

Getting around corners has become a more frequent occurance in Halo due to the sluggish base movement and extremely slow kill times. Would this work in SWAT? Would this work in a two shot kill gametype? Three shot kill gametype? See what I'm getting at? People are mad at movement abilities when they should be mad at the crazy long kill times.

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Getting around corners has become a more frequent occurance in Halo due to the sluggish base movement and extremely slow kill times. Would this work in SWAT? Would this work in a two shot kill gametype? Three shot kill gametype? See what I'm getting at? People are mad at movement abilities when they should be mad at the crazy long kill times.

I think it has more to do with always blaming something when you don't get the kill. If you don't have anything to blame (no movement bonuses) but yourself, then you won't blame the game and will enjoy it more. This discussion is pretty useless though without proper maps being tested with the right gametypes. But you agree sprint itself, as well as loadouts and armor abilities should be removed as they currently are implemented? At least for the sake of proper map design?

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I think sprint and armor abilities should all be scrapped. I would give all Spartans a Thruster Pack that can also perform a vertical thrust, or double jump if you will, off spawn with long cooldown. This way I take the best two AAs, Thruster Pack and Jetpack, and incorporate them into one base ability, like sprint is now. Then everything else, like Regen or Hard Light Shield, would be on map pick ups like H3 style Equipment.

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I think sprint and armor abilities should all be scrapped. I would give all Spartans a Thruster Pack that can also perform a vertical thrust, or double jump if you will, off spawn with long cooldown. This way I take the best two AAs, Thruster Pack and Jetpack, and incorporate them into one base ability, like sprint is now. Then everything else, like Regen or Hard Light Shield, would be on map pick ups like H3 style Equipment.

Sounds commendable. I disagree with the double jump, but the rest I like. Glad we can find some middle ground. I don't see that breaking any maps.

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Sounds commendable. I disagree with the double jump, but the rest I like. Glad we can find some middle ground. I don't see that breaking any maps.

You have to choose between the horizontal thrust or vertical thrust. They both fully drain the same meter so it forces players to make choices about their movement.

 

"Do I want to make that long horizontal jump or do I want to make that high vertical jump?"

 

He can only do one, without waiting through the cooldown, so maps could be designed in a manner to encourage the choice between getting to the middle faster (horizontal thrust) of getting the high ground faster (vertical thrust). I am describing a whole new meta game to map movement so it may take time for people to process but I feel like it would enrich gameplay in the end.

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You have to choose between the horizontal thrust or vertical thrust. They both fully drain the same meter so it forces players to make choices about their movement.

 

"Do I want to make that long horizontal jump or do I want to make that high vertical jump?"

 

He can only do one, without waiting through the cooldown, so maps could be designed in a manner to encourage the choice between getting to the middle faster (horizontal thrust) of getting the high ground faster (vertical thrust). I am describing a whole new meta game to map movement so it may take time for people to process but I feel like it would enrich gameplay in the end.

Interesting, I'm glad you typed that out as I thought both movements occurred. I'd like to see some gameplay of that on a simple map like warlock honestly. Haven or Skyline would be good testing maps too.

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Ya know, I never understood (and still don't) the decision to stop movement while checking the score. What purpose does that serve? at all? In any way shape or form?

 

All points that have been brought up before, but nevertheless important as ever.

 

I can almost guarantee that they did so for the following reason:

 

Knowing how many people are dead is tactical knowledge and that kind of advantage needed to be nerfed in order to make players who want to check at a temporary disadvantage while gathering such tactical knowledge.

 

What blows my mind with almost every little change like this, there had to be someone who thought this was better than what worked before. It bothers me that people knew Halo was a success from launch and with each title, instead of saying " Hey this formula works, how can we improve upon it?", they instead went balls to the wall and said "We need to reinvent Halo". That alone keeps me up at nights. (not really)

 

I wish sooooo badly that I could have another online multiplayer experience like Halo 2 again.

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I can almost guarantee that they did so for the following reason:

 

Knowing how many people are dead is tactical knowledge and that kind of advantage needed to be nerfed in order to make players who want to check at a temporary disadvantage while gathering such tactical knowledge.

 

What blows my mind with almost every little change like this, there had to be someone who thought this was better than what worked before. It bothers me that people knew Halo was a success from launch and with each title, instead of saying " Hey this formula works, how can we improve upon it?", they instead went balls to the wall and said "We need to reinvent Halo". That alone keeps me up at nights. (not really)

 

I wish sooooo badly that I could have another online multiplayer experience like Halo 2 again.

No. None of the tester noticed or too few of them were worried about it. It was a blunder, not a choice.

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No. None of the tester noticed or too few of them were worried about it. It was a blunder, not a choice.

That's what you think, they said, or is believed. I choose to believe otherwise. There is no way no one hit the back button while playing and did not notice this. If so, why has this not been patched yet?

 

Let me add that even if a small group only noticed and nothing was said, or done, then truly hope is lost.

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The day load outs and sprint are gone, and pickups on map are back will be a good day.  Really enjoying the update, however there are some fundamental problems that still remain.  Mainly, randomness.

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Well something i would like to point out in favor of no sprint is the fact the "golden triangle" never existed. We all know gun grenade and melee, but as you point out, 343 needs to focus on maps. I find it to be more of a golden square. In order to master Halo you had to know the maps and use them to your advantage with every angle, corner, and jump. With sprint you don't. Let's look at lockout for example.

Halo 2 Lockout was very very hard to master on a high level. Let's say you're Br 3 absolute because a sniper is S2. In this kind of situation you have to be smart and ask yourself, "Okay, where am I? Where is the sniper? What rout options do I have?" With sprint on shutout, not only is the map oversized due to sprint, the the power positions and angles are almost useless because breaking a setup is far too easy with a push of a button, and that "think before you move" requirement goes right out the window.


The maps are part of the game and players should want to figure out ways to use them to their advatage. Without good maps, even the best gametypes can make a game fail. No sprint, descope, and good maps should be one of the biggest projects on the game. They mastered the weapons in Halo 4. Now lets make the right decisions with Halo 5, 343.

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