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Gobias

Old vs New

  

91 members have voted

  1. 1. Fall Damage?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      64
  2. 2. Regenerative Health?

    • Yes
      69
    • No
      22
  3. 3. Directional Damage and Grenade Indicators? (different from hitmarkers)

    • Only damage indicators
      41
    • Only grenade indicators
      1
    • Both
      15
    • Neither
      34
  4. 4. Shield Recharge Delay?

    • Six seconds (Halo 4)
      10
    • Four seconds (or less)
      81
  5. 5. Secondary Weapon Icon?

    • Yes
      73
    • No
      18
  6. 6. Dual Wielding?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      38
  7. 7. Ordnance Drop System?

    • Yes
      7
    • No
      84
  8. 8. Projectile or Hitscan? (for precision weapons)

    • Projectile
      15
    • Hitscan
      76
  9. 9. Hitmarkers?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      9


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Please read before voting

- - -

Over the years, Halo has changed in a number of subtle ways that have affected game play in not-so-subtle ways. Instead of comparing elements in relation to entirely other games, let's break down each change individually, contrasting pros and cons in terms of game play. I might not get all of the points perfectly, but if I did, then there would be no room for discussion.

- - - - - - -

1) Fall Damage

Originally, there was fall damage in Halo CE. This changed in Halo 2 and was brought back in Reach, and to a lesser extent, Halo 4; mainly it's not as noticeable in the latest game because most of the maps lack significant verticality.

- - -

Fall damage Pros:

• Forces players to be smarter with vertical movement

• Realism

No fall damage Pros:

• Unhindered vertical movement

• Simplicity

- - - - - - -

2) Regenerative Health

Also in Halo CE, health packs were necessary to regenerate health below your shielding. The health did not regenerate on its own--shielding did--so it was important to find a health pack to stay alive. Health packs and in turn non-regenerative health were subsequently only in Halo 3: ODST's campaign and Halo: Reach. This topic almost merits its own thread.

- - -

Non-regenerative health

Pros:

• Incentive to move around and find health packs

• Risk vs Reward of challenging an opponent who has a slight advantage

Cons:

• Not all engagements are perfectly even, even with the same weapons

- - - - - - -

3) Damage and Grenade Indicators

These indicators were added in Halo 4, presumably to increase the accessibility of the game. They indicate the direction from which you are taking damage and which direction active grenades are coming from.

- - -

Damage and grenade indicators

Pros:

• Individual battles are more competitive in that the victim is instantly alerted to where the attacker is shooting/grenading from

• Getting the first shot is not as important

Cons:

• Reduces importance of awareness

• Adds clutter to HUD

- - - - - - -

4) Shield Recharge Delay

Whereas Halo 2 and Halo 3 had a delay of four seconds before shields recharged, Halo 4's delay is six seconds (I could be wrong on that, but either way it feels slower). Combined with instant respawn and sprinting off spawn, it can be quite unbearable, especially in free-for-all.

- - -

Six second delay

Pros:

• Callouts (one-shot on my "X") are more effective

• Players need to be more careful of putting themselves in dangerous positions

Cons:

• Game play is slowed down dramatically

• 1v1s (especially in FFA) can be very uneven

- - - - - - -

5) Secondary Weapon Indicator

This indicator doesn't directly affect game play, so the vote is entirely your preference. Some say the indicator's absence makes the HUD cleaner; some like to have the extra information of what weapon you're carrying on your back, even though it's not too difficult to remember.

- - - - - - -

6) Dual Wielding

Thought I'd throw this in just for kicks. Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the only games to have dual wielding. Here's my opinion: It's a useful tactic that is balanced by the fact that you can't throw grenades. If you don't want "overpowered" combos to be possible (dual needlers, SMG/plasma rifle, n00b combo), then just remove those weapon pairs from the map.

- - -

Dual wielding

Pros:

• Variety of weapon combinations, increasing sandbox depth

• Dual wielding characters in machinimas

• Sheer badassery

Cons:

• "Overpowered" combos (which can be obviates in the first place)

- - - - - - -

7) Ordnance Drops

Halo 4 is the only Halo game to use the ordnance system. Ordnance drops have indicators to show their location. Assuming the main problems with ordnance were fixed, (no damage inflicted, ability to change ammo count), would you like its return?

- - - - - - -

8) Projectile vs Hitscan

Hit detection has varied from each game to the next. Hitscan is instantaneous hit registration, whereas projectiles take time to travel. Keep in mind that the next installment will have dedicated servers, so the projectile system would not be affected as much by lag.

- - -

Projectile

Pros:

• Greater skill gap as shots must be led

Cons:

• Bullets can lag (although this would be reduced with dedis)

- - - - - - -

I could post two more questions, but the only two I can think of are concerning sprint and flinch/descope, and I'd rather not beat a pair of dead horses. Tell me if there is a question I should add or if there is a problem with the poll. Vote!

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For the projectile VS hitscan it is like this:

 

If the primary weapon is a BR, Projectile. Hitscan if it is something like a DMR. 

 

A few years ago, I would say hitscan all day. This is because of how bad Halo 3 was with projectiles. However, I think the average internet connection is better now, so Projectile weapons are better now. Ideally, H5 would have a dedicated server, in which case projectile is definitely the way to go for a BR type weapon. 

 

If it is still P2p, then it isn't nearly as clear. Halo 3 had a bad netcode and projectiles. This left a lot of bad taste in many people's mouths. Other games with projectile weapons that actually have decent netcode have this problem a lot less. Another problem is that Halo 3 had terrible spread on the Br, so there was a good chance of at least one bullet straying and a good chance of a bullet completely disappearing or being refunded. This made the BR even more inconsistent online than it was on Lan. 

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I voted:

Fall damage - yes
It makes verticality in maps a lot more important, and limits the effectiveness of chasing & escaping from top to bottom.

 

Regenerative Health - yes

I voted yes, but I don't want fully regenerative health. I kind of like how Reach did it with several buffer point which health won't regenerate past.

 

Hitmarkers - Only for gunfire

I like hitmarkers on weapons as they're particularly useful online. However I'd like to see them activate for each bullet hit, making it easier to track automatic and burst weapons. Hitmarkers on grenades make using them as scouting tools too easy.

 

Shield Recharge delay - 4 seconds

I voted for four second because 6 is far too long (long than the respawn in a slayer game!), however I ultimately think that this should be balanced around the sandbox and movement speed.

 

Secondary Weapon icon - yes

I don't really see a reason to not have this. It surely helps new players keep track of what they're carrying more easily and takes up such a small part of the screen that it's pretty much negligible.

 

Dual Wielding - no

I'm not a fan of dual wielding. It leads to a lot of sandbox clutter and is seemingly difficult to balance well. Not worth it.

 

Ordnance - yes

I don't see the harm in keeping it for customs. Just make it more customisable and don't make regular weapons despawn so quickly after being disturbed. Make it an addition to the game rather than a replacement mechanic.

 

Projectile or Hitscan - Hitscan

Purely for online play I'd feel much more comfortable with hitscan unless the dedicated servers in the next game are very stable. Overall the shooting skill gap is still more dependent on movement physics and ease of aiming than how the shots register.

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Yes to fall damage. I've always enjoyed it. Puts a limit on jet pack. Creates risk vs. reward.

 

On health regeneration I'm either way. Most people would argue for it because of the equal footing of each battle however that has never been the case in Halo. Halo's health did not regenerate as fast as the shields so if you were back to the action within 5 seconds of full shields you were at a disadvantage.

 

Its also important to note that if your using a utility weapon your not going for body shots.

 

I'm actually for a combination of the two. I'm fine with health packs to guarantee your full health but I'm also fine with health regenerating after a period of time.

 

Dual wielding I voted yes for. I voted yes beœcause I believe it be properly implemented. It just. The way dual wielding should be treated is as power up/power weapon the difference being you have to traverse the map to obtain the advantage. They should not be littered all over the map to where there is no advantage. There should only 2-3 on a map and they should be spaced far apart.

 

Hit markers no. Not a fan and I'm pretty sure they were in H2 or H3 you had to have vibration on or something.

 

Secondary weapon indicator I'm either or. Its not necessary. Its not like your able to carry more than two weapons.

 

Shield regeneration time I voted for 4 but honestly I've never kept up with the time it takes to generate shields.

 

I'm fine with ordinance especially if were able to tweak it.

 

Hitscan. Servers do not remove latency or bad connections. If your connection sucks now and you don't live close to a server your still gonna have problems online.

 

+ it puts everyone who practices online at a disadvantage. Aim is about muscle memory. If your consistently playing on a server your shot will be off. Your thinking OK I shoot now because this is where my shots hit online when leading but its a total different ball game on LAN because you remove the latency.

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On regenerative health i voted yes. But it would not be the invisible health like in h2, 3 and 4. i would like a health bar like in CE and reach and healthpacks on the maps but have health regenerate at a much slower rate than shields. I think this would be cool, there for you dont need to find a health pack but if you dont you have to be prepared to wait for awhile. For example say you had 10 health bars under the shield, and they start to regenerate at 1 bar per 2 seconds as soon as shields start to regen. 

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Whats wrong with secondary weapon icons? Its both annoying not to have and makes the viewing experience more confusing.

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fall damage - no
All what fall damage does is limit map movement.  It doesn't make verticality more important, if anything it reduces its importance because you can no longer jump off of high places to escape (a previous + of having height control).  It adds negligible skill to the game because once players know where they can and can't jump off *they just don't jump off anymore* unless they have to.  

 

Regenerative Health - yes

Health packs slow things down to where people will have to leave engagements to go to the outside of the map and find a healthpack.  Plus Ilike having my br battles be on completely even ground.  No hidden information in terms of health/shields.

 

Hitmarkers - yes

I like hitmarkers in general as it removes the guessing game of "did that nade hit him?".  More information presented as to whether their shots and nades are hitting = better for online.  I don't see what no hitmarkers adds (that you can't know if you hit someone around the corner?) but having hitmarkers does add to the experience with both scouting and knowing that if you were hit with a grenade that person may come after you even though you are around the corner.

 

Shield Recharge delay - 4 seconds

4 seconds of course, but that's only with no sprint.  6 seconds is needed with halo 4 sprint.

 

Secondary Weapon icon - yes

I don't really see a reason to not have this. It surely helps new players keep track of what they're carrying more easily and takes up such a small part of the screen that it's pretty much negligible.

 

Dual Wielding - yes

More fun for noobs and It can definitely be balanced as a short range powerful gun in which you cannot throw nades. 

 

Ordnance - no

just no.

Not in matchmaking at least.

 

Projectile or Hitscan - Hitscan

Hitscan all fucking day.  With projectile, yeah you have to lead hosts but 1. online is a bitch and 2. it often becomes a luck game of "guess where he will strafe next" and whoever is luckier gets the kill.  With hitscan you still have to put your shots in the same small area, it's just that your shots will actually register and there is no luck game involved.  

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With the Damage and Grenade Indicators question, I was actually referring to the indicators that show which direction you take damage from and which direction grenades are coming from. Hitmarkers is a good idea for a question, I didn't think of that. I think the bullet hitmarkers are good (it removes a bit of the guessing), but the grenade hitmarkers are rather cheap. I don't know if it's possible to have one or the other though--it would certainly be very difficult from a programming perspective.

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I'd argue against the realism of fall damage. Spartan suits are extremely tough and have special systems designed to deal with shock and prevent injury (hence MC surviving a fall to a planet in both H3 and H4). The amount of fall damage in Halo 1 was just annoying and stupid.

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Grenade hitmarkers are some of the cheapest things ever. Sometimes id get hit by grenades on purpose to suprise an enemy for a quick beatdown or if I do a quick move to barely get hit by a grenade my opponenet who might think he threw a good one would be at the disadvantage like he should be.

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Fall Damage - Yes. Fall damage makes you be careful about where you're going. There were also neat tricks like landing right on top of the OS to prevent death.

 

Regenerative Health - No. Wonderful post by cT here which I will quote from a recent discussion thread.

 

Health added another layer of importance to movement. People talk about health like it wasnt ever important. It was not a focus on the game, but if you had rockets and red health you better believe you didnt wanna die from one nade so you went and got a health pack.

 

People just don't like having to focus on a half dozen things at once, which is also why most people don't like the gold pro settings. You dont get to leisurely stroll around and teamshoot, there is always an objective even in slayer, and that reminds me of h1 more than anything else.

 

 

Damage and Grenade indicators - noooooooooooooooo. This is Halo: Easy mode. Just give every weapon faint bullet trails and we're good. You can see and hear grenades coming at you. No need for indicators telling you which way to run.

 

Shield Recharge Delay - TBH I don't really know. For 1v1s I would definitely vote for 4 seconds (6 seconds + another 2-3 to regen gives your opponent a lot of time to get to you, especially if they got a good spawn. Of course, how spawns function is another topic entirely.

 

Secondary Weapon Indicator - Yes. It doesn't occupy much space and it makes the game easier to understand from a spectator perspective without compromising the game mechanics for anybody who plays.

 

Dual Wielding - No. Duel Wielding tends to result in having one copy of the weapon absolutely pointless, and if the weapons are far enough apart that you have to "work" for the duel wield, nobody is going to bother wasting twenty seconds instead of helping their teammate(s). 

 

Ordnance Drops - No. A working ordnance drop system (in my eyes) would need: 1. no waypoints 2. nadeable weapons 3. ability to put as many weapons as we want on static/dynamic (based on pickup pleeeeeeeeeease) timers, at which point it's just regular weapon spawns from every other game.

 

Projectile vs Hitscan - Tough one. It's hard to say anything until we know how good the dedicated servers are and how the game will deal with players who have a poor connection.

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I Believe that in past halos frags had a sort of yellow or orange "glow" to them to make them more visible as they bounced around so that you could avoid them. Having a indicator tell you that a grenade has landed behind you so you know to jump away is just too much, as well as hitmarkers for grenades. I believe there is such a thing as having too much info given to you.

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Fall damage can also be worked around by learning how to land safely by timing a crouch properly or sliding down certain geometry instead of free-falling. It adds something else to do and think about and the potential to mess up and be punished for it.

 

Health should be visible whether it recharges or not because it heals much more slowly than shields do. If a player has just had hist shields charge but took some body damage and immediately gets into another fight he's not going to be on even ground with his opponent, but because this is invisible most people don't know it. Fix that.

 

Grenade warning indicators need to either be much tighter so that the indicator's radius matches that of the thrown grenade exactly (ie: it'll show at a point in which there's nothing you can do about it) or just get rid of it completely. Regular damage indicators are fine.

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All right, I added a Hitmarkers question. You'll have to delete your original votes, but that will at least get you to think twice about your answers.

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All right, I added a Hitmarkers question. You'll have to delete your original votes, but that will at least get you to think twice about your answers.

 

Can you be more specific as to what "Hitmarkers?" means?

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No.

 

so tempted to neg lol, but I won't

 

seriously man, what kind of hitmarker? the one with directions when you get shot? the one that appears when you do damage to somebody else?

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so tempted to neg lol, but I won't

 

seriously man, what kind of hitmarker? the one with directions when you get shot? the one that appears when you do damage to somebody else?

Theyre the hashmarks around your reticle when your bullet hits someone. Useful for laggy situations but stupid on explosives / grenades.

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so tempted to neg lol, but I won't

 

seriously man, what kind of hitmarker? the one with directions when you get shot? the one that appears when you do damage to somebody else?

I don't care if you neg my rep, but I thought I made it pretty clear in the poll and the OP. Directional Damage and Grenade Indicators indicate what direction you are taking damage from; grenade indicators show what direction a grenade is coming from.

Hitmarkers appear near your reticle when you inflict damage on another player, be that damage from bullets or splash from grenades and explosives.

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I would prefer in some ways that Grenade Types are capable of being seen much easier, similar to previous Halo games. I honestly preferred Halo 2's Grenade graphics, animations, physics and explosions the most, especially how obvious Plasma Grenades appeared once stuck to someone. I can barely see the Grenades at all in this game, Halo 4 has terrible Grenades and animations for the Grenades in my opinion.

 

Good poll honestly you have posted honestly, all but my Projectile choice is in the lead currently, but that one depends alot of Online Matchmaking service, P2P or Dedicated Servers.

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I would prefer in some ways that Grenade Types are capable of being seen much easier, similar to previous Halo games. I honestly preferred Halo 2's Grenade graphics, animations, physics and explosions the most, especially how obvious Plasma Grenades appeared once stuck to someone. I can barely see the Grenades at all in this game, Halo 4 has terrible Grenades and animations for the Grenades in my opinion.

 

Good poll honestly you have posted honestly, all but my Projectile choice is in the lead currently, but that one depends alot of Online Matchmaking service, P2P or Dedicated Servers.

Thanks for the comment, and I just had a thought: Perhaps 343i added the directional grenade indicator because earlier in Halo 4's build the grenades were incredibly difficult to see. They seem to have taken a similar route with the extremely visible red names, which was to make up for Halo 4's washed-out color scheme.

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I don't care if you neg my rep, but I thought I made it pretty clear in the poll and the OP. Directional Damage and Grenade Indicators indicate what direction you are taking damage from; grenade indicators show what direction a grenade is coming from.

Hitmarkers appear near your reticle when you inflict damage on another player, be that damage from bullets or splash from grenades and explosives.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Heck no then.

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