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The sniper is a power weapon in Halo 4. The beam rifle is an over-powered weapon in Halo 4. 

 

So does the bolt shot. 

 

The aim assist mention was more or less for everybody else. I really don't care about it as long as it's not H2 all over again. 

1. That's honestly debatable.  You just need to severely decrease ammo.

 

2. scattershot is still greater than boltshot.  I would still trade.  (boltshot should not be a loadout option though).

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Wasn't the only reason why we got a 2-Shot beatdown was because of you and Ninja when you went over to 343i? They weren't even going to test it until you guy brought it up.

 

Isn't that a good thing? They were fairly late into the weapon testing and the BR was a 3 shot beatdown when they tested it. Ghost explained the reasoning behind the 2 shot beatdown and Quinn not only listened but got it implemented. And I'm pretty sure outside of the MLG playlist, the H3 BR was a 3 shot beatdown. They had to tinker with it for competitive settings. In Halo 4, it is a global change. That is despite the fact that a 2shot melee weapon could put automatic weapons at a disadvantage at close range (which is their niche). Yet he did it anyway for the competitive community.

 

If that isn't a show of good faith, I don't know what is. And I know you can argue about not getting NS among other things. But hopefully he is continuing to listen to the community and will be making suggestions to the multiplayer development team for the next Halo.

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When will people stop being naive and realize that we are just like any other group of people? We have complacent people, apathetic people, caring people, and assholes. Asking us to rally up and form a unified voice is laughable, especially since this is dealing with a freaking video game. The burden of action of is on the developers.

 

I like this post...a lot

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Isn't that a good thing? They were fairly late into the weapon testing and the BR was a 3 shot beatdown when they tested it. Ghost explained the reasoning behind the 2 shot beatdown and Quinn not only listened but got it implemented. And I'm pretty sure outside of the MLG playlist, the H3 BR was a 3 shot beatdown. They had to tinker with it for competitive settings. In Halo 4, it is a global change. That is despite the fact that a 2shot melee weapon could put automatic weapons at a disadvantage at close range (which is their niche). Yet he did it anyway for the competitive community.

 

If that isn't a show of good faith, I don't know what is. And I know you can argue about not getting NS among other things. But hopefully he is continuing to listen to the community and will be making suggestions to the multiplayer development team for the next Halo.

Yeah, it is a good thing, but if Quinn was as competitive minded as most of us are, he would know that a 2 shot beatdown would be the best to go for, but he needed Ghost+Ninja to tell him so. I'm not bashing him, I appreciate he listened and applied it to the game and I'm thankful for that, but if he needs guidance like that, what else might he miss for H5?

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Wasn't the only reason why we got a 2-Shot beatdown was because of you and Ninja when you went over to 343i? They weren't even going to test it until you guys brought it up.

 

That is the point. Lemon asked for an example of 343i dev saying that something we asked for makes sense and then applying it. 

 

This is that example. That is why he pointed it out.

 

 

If 3 years of "playing CE at a high level" is good enough to make him a dev why isn't Ogre2 designing Halo 5?

 

While I'm certainly not advocating for that, I would prefer it if I had only two choices.

 

There are people in the Halo community that have far more knowledge about Halo than 343i could ever hope to. It's insane to have that asset and not utilize it.

 

Unfortunately the mindset there is "Don't hire someone unless they have worked on a AAA franchise."

 

 

 

 

(yes Bravo is the sole exception but that's a whole different story)

 

There is a lot that goes into making a game. A lot of people think that there are just a ton of "idea guys" but the reality is that pretty much everybody has to do work other than just ideas and testing. 

 

The fact that Bravo got hired with virtually zero design experience is actually asinine. There are probably a bunch of Microsoft suits who spit out their coffee in Frank's face when he even suggested it. It isn't something that happens. Ever. Suggesting things like that is what people lose their job over.

 

Many people underestimate just how incredibly out of the ordinary hiring someone like Bravo was, and they really only had one position they could reasonably put him in, which is the one he has now. 

 

It would be like if the CEO of pepsi decided to hire you and put you on the team testing how things taste just because he heard that you drink a lot of pepsi. Does anybody else even comprehend how insane that is? 

 

Furthermore, they have tons of employees who didn't work in a AAA franchise. This is because there are a shit-ton of people who work there doing things that require a lot of work like modeling, animating, texture design, lighting, programming, ect... I guarantee that a large chunk, if not most of these people come from AA or lower positions, if not straight out of college. These are the people who do 99% of the work for making Halo what it is, and we don't know a single person's name. 

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That is the point. Lemon asked for an example of 343i dev saying that something we asked for makes sense and then applying it. 

 

This is that example. That is why he pointed it out.

Ah, my understanding was that he wanted Quinn to know stuff like that on his own, and not need guidance. My mistake.

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That is the point. Lemon asked for an example of 343i dev saying that something we asked for makes sense and then applying it. 

 

This is that example. That is why he pointed it out.

 

 

 

There is a lot that goes into making a game. A lot of people think that there are just a ton of "idea guys" but the reality is that pretty much everybody has to do work other than just ideas and testing. 

 

The fact that Bravo got hired with virtually zero design experience is actually asinine. There are probably a bunch of Microsoft suits who spit out their coffee in Frank's face when he even suggested it. It isn't something that happens. Ever. Suggesting things like that is what people lose their job over.

 

Many people underestimate just how incredibly out of the ordinary hiring someone like Bravo was, and they really only had one position they could reasonably put him in, which is the one he has now. 

 

It would be like if the CEO of pepsi decided to hire you and put you on the team testing how things taste just because he heard that you drink a lot of pepsi. Does anybody else even comprehend how insane that is? 

 

Furthermore, they have tons of employees who didn't work in a AAA franchise. This is because there are a shit-ton of people who work there doing things that require a lot of work like modeling, animating, texture design, lighting, programming, ect... I guarantee that a large chunk, if not most of these people come from AA or lower positions, if not straight out of college. These are the people who do 99% of the work for making Halo what it is, and we don't know a single person's name. 

 

 

All of their job postings for important positions have specified AAA title experience. I don't give a damn who modelling, animating, texturing,lighting, programming - those aren't the things that made Halo 4 terrible.  It was the DECISIONS! The things that made Halo 4 bad did not require a single line of code, only a decision to include them. The coding is irrelevant. You say they do 99% of the work, that's like saying the CGI animators are more to thank for Iron Man than Robert ****** Jr. Guess what, they don't make the character likeable - he did. Idea guys are really all that matter in a game in this day and age. All the technical stuff can be accomplished at almost any major studio.

 

 

And Bravo, I like the guy a lot and actually feel a bit sorry for him in the tough position he's in - but he was a PR hire intended to shut up the competitive community. He wasn't a bold move against normal corporate strategy but a carefully planned move fitting exactly into the corporate scheme.

 

Pepsi doesn't hire people who want to hate their product and want to fundamentally change it. This isn't my opinion - it's what 343i boldly claimed to have done.

 

 

(This is where more stuff would go if this were posted on THC. The mods here are pretty strict with personal attacks though.)

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They know that when the NEW arrives it will be bought because advertising, it is where they make their money so why should they care about the loyal 5% halo buyers and MM. Hey! the greatest NEW Halo is coming just buy it. I won't be surprised if Halo 5 breaks Halo 4 record.

 

So we can pout, yell, be angry etc. and won't make a difference because it doesn't and won't affect how many Halo 5 games are sold and they already got a great revenue from Halo 4. Hey! they already got my $100 for Halo 4 LE and the fact that I have been loyal to halo since 2001 is of no importance to 343. There is a sucker one born every minute that will buy Halo 5.

For starters, I think many in this community underestimate the percentage loyal fans occupy in the total fan base. I would put it at 40% if not higher judging by Halo 4s downfall in numbers. So perhaps they can ignore 5% but it certainly isn't a wise business decision to ignore 40%.

 

As for your second argument on how advertising itself can sell a Halo game; well in terms of copies sold here is how all five games rank:

 

Halo 1 < Halo 4 < Halo 2 < Halo Reach < Halo 3

  6.43  <   8.43  <   8.49  <       9.44      < 11.79 - and this is in mullion of units sold globally

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/939/halo-combat-evolved/

 

Now considering Halo 4 was the highest budget game for Microsoft and how Halo 2 outsold it; it tells me advertising can only do so much and word of month goes much further. Anyways for your information Halo 4 hasn't sold as much as you think. Food for thought.

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For starters, I think many in this community underestimate the percentage loyal fans occupy in the total fan base. I would put it at 40% if not higher judging by Halo 4s downfall in numbers. So perhaps they can ignore 5% but it certainly isn't a wise business decision to ignore 40%.

 

As for your second argument on how advertising itself can sell a Halo game; well in terms of copies sold here is how all five games rank:

 

Halo 1 < Halo 4 < Halo 2 < Halo Reach < Halo 3

  6.43  <   8.43  <   8.49  <       9.44      < 11.79 - and this is in mullion of units sold globally

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/939/halo-combat-evolved/

 

Now considering Halo 4 was the highest budget game for Microsoft and how Halo 2 outsold it; it tells me advertising can only do so much and word of month goes much further. Anyways for your information Halo 4 hasn't sold as much as you think. Food for thought.

 

The hype machine is only going to get bigger with the first XB1 release(Remember Halo 2 Xbox/Halo 3 360 marketing?) and Halo Television series by Spielburg, alot of work seems to be going into selling and expanding the universe which is cool as fuck as a Sci-fi fan and probably rightfully so as the Campaign/Co-op audience is probably bigger than the comp MP audience.

 

At the same time it would be cool if they put some of that budget into promoting the MP like annual or bi-annual "Global Halo championships" or maybe even working with AGL to get a bigger prize pool and make it the official new home of comp Halo. The FFA tourney is certainly a  good start and god knows the finals in Seattle should be hype, but at the end of the day 4v4 is the main staple of comp Halo and pushing that forward is the key to advancing comp Halo.

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Gotta hand it to Bravo and Quinn for salvaging H4 though after the crappy start. At this point I don't care much about Halo though. Just trying to get into that mindset so I won't be disappointed if H5 is trash. Though I don't think it will be if Bravo and Quinn are big parts in its creation. 

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The hype machine is only going to get bigger with the first XB1 release(Remember Halo 2 Xbox/Halo 3 360 marketing?) and Halo Television series by Spielburg, alot of work seems to be going into selling and expanding the universe which is cool as fuck as a Sci-fi fan and probably rightfully so as the Campaign/Co-op audience is probably bigger than the comp MP audience.

Personally I feel the  campaign can only take you so far, as a 12 year kid its amazing but you soon grow out of it.. I'm a huge fan of the sci-fi world and played the H2 and H3 campaigns religiously (mostly because I didn't have Xbox Live). Even then if you had given me the choice 8 years ago I would definitely choose a lan party over playing campaign. My point is, Halo is sold for its multiplayer not its campaign.

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Personally I feel the  campaign can only take you so far, as a 12 year kid its amazing but you soon grow out of it.. I'm a huge fan of the sci-fi world and played the H2 and H3 campaigns religiously (mostly because I didn't have Xbox Live). Even then if you had given me the choice 8 years ago I would definitely choose a lan party over playing campaign. My point is, Halo is sold for its multiplayer not its campaign.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who play Halo solely for the campaign as a casual experience and move on to the next game.

 

Halo 4 sold what, 9 million copies worldwide? 400k peaked in MM for the first 3-4 days. You do the math.

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For starters, I think many in this community underestimate the percentage loyal fans occupy in the total fan base. I would put it at 40% if not higher judging by Halo 4s downfall in numbers. So perhaps they can ignore 5% but it certainly isn't a wise business decision to ignore 40%.

 

As for your second argument on how advertising itself can sell a Halo game; well in terms of copies sold here is how all five games rank:

 

Halo 1 < Halo 4 < Halo 2 < Halo Reach < Halo 3

  6.43  <   8.43  <   8.49  <       9.44      < 11.79 - and this is in mullion of units sold globally

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/939/halo-combat-evolved/

 

Now considering Halo 4 was the highest budget game for Microsoft and how Halo 2 outsold it; it tells me advertising can only do so much and word of month goes much further. Anyways for your information Halo 4 hasn't sold as much as you think. Food for thought.

 

My point was that 343 is not concerned about competitive players because we are a minority. Lets run numbers.

 

According with the news Halo 4 collected 300 Millions first week.  

Giving an average of $50.00 per copy sold times 8.43 million copies sold = 421 Millions gross income.

 

The 11 000  0000 copies mentioned in some threads is incorrect and was a misunderstanding with the actual number of unique players.

 

I'm going to be generous and said that there are 50,000 hard core competitive players like you and 30,000 competitive casuals like me. So lets said that there is 80,000 players in the competitive niche. (In the glory days of halo 3 the MLG MM play list had an average of 15 000 players,  if my memory is wrong please correct me about this number) so stating that there are 80,000 competitive players is a  generous estimate

 

So total games sold 8.43 million and 80,000 competitive players. That makes competitive players 1% of the total copies sold.

 

Dollars numbers

casuals 8350000 x $50 = 417,500,000 dollars gross income from casual population

 

Competitive 80,000 x $50 = 4,000,000 dollars gross income from competitive players.

 

So do you really thing that 343 is concern about us when we are their pain in the ass complainers and we represent less than 1% of their gross income.

 

 

As a business owner (large veterinary hospital) let me tell you I run into the same situation with a small % of complaining costumers and my policy is to send them a "Dear John" letter telling the to find a different pet health services provider. I only care about my 98% good clients that don't create problems for me or my staff.

 

So from a Dollar wise perspective we are inconsequential amount.

 

edit grammar

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So total games sold 8.43 million and 80,000 competitive players. That makes competitive players 1% of the total copies sold.

When you put it that way it doesn't sound worthwhile to invest in us but something tells me we have to occupy a larger percentage; even if we had 400k that still gives us 5% of the copies sold...

 

Not sure, but what I do know is that the games have declined in copies sold and general popularity. Its sucks I had a nice graph I wanted to post but the website doesn't allow copy/paste of excel graphs...

 

Anyways, nice perspective animal.

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You'd be surprised at the amount of people who play Halo solely for the campaign as a casual experience and move on to the next game.

 

Halo 4 sold what, 9 million copies worldwide? 400k peaked in MM for the first 3-4 days. You do the math.

I think I would, or am :(

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