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Sit down. Shut up. And.....

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We are absolutely, 100% not merely discussing the merits of a video game. Halo is NOT just something that we sit in front of our TVs and do for half an hour every other day as a pastime activity. 

 

Halo is something that almost every one of us has invested ludicrous hours of time, money, effort, and passion into. It's something we waste time on when we could be doing "productive" things, it's something we travel over state borders for, it's something we express our creativity through, it's something we use as a stress reliever (or allow to act as a stressor), but above all of that it is central focus around which a multitude of friendships and social networks are constructed. 

 

When competitive Halo began dying, I wasn't just losing a game. I lost an opportunity to see places I've never been to, to see faces I've never met or perhaps wanted to meet again, to surround myself in a bustling atmosphere of significance and nerdy opulence, to coordinate my efforts with other people to produce works and results in an area of passion for myself, and to just generally be a part of something great. 

 

The mediocrity of the Halo franchise has destroyed an entire sector of e-sports. Halo was the centerpiece of one of the most lucrative fronts for competitive gaming in North America, whether anyone else in the gaming world wants to admit it. Now that's all gone, with absolutely no sign of it returning and no indication of the situation for ourselves improving. 

 

So when I complain about how annoyed I am with how the Halo series has degenerated, I'm not speaking from a standpoint of purism, I'm speaking from the standpoint of a fan who has had a large chunk of their livelihood decimated. That is NOT trivial. 

This!

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Tell you what.

 

Why don't you provide me a single, solitary example of an instance where anyone except Bravo and Ghost have actually said, to one of us in the competitive community, "oh, well now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense."

 

Just kidding, I'll win that bet.

 

Frankie to me at RTX when I asked him about a ranking system. My explanation was that it is used to provide more even match ups for the enjoyment of everyone. Good players don't really like destroying everyone all day and bad players don't like getting destroyed. He said that how I explained it made sense and that his main concern was to prevent cheaters/derankers so that people would always be evenly matched. I forget his exact words, but he did say that my reasoning made sense.

 

 

 

 

Boom.

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Frankie to me at RTX when I asked him about a ranking system. My explanation was that it is used to provide more even match ups for the enjoyment of everyone. Good players don't really like destroying everyone all day and bad players don't like getting destroyed. He said that how I explained it made sense and that his main concern was to prevent cheaters/derankers so that people would always be evenly matched. I forget his exact words, but he did say that my reasoning made sense.

 

 

 

 

Boom.

Yeah, you do realize he just said "that makes sense but...." because he was disagreeing but because he talks to disgruntled fans all the time (even from the casual sector- "where are my brutes in campaign!!!???") he's really good at saying "yeah but..."   in a way that calms the person down.  Basically in PR fashion.

 

Basically he played you.  He's already made his decision, and any time people ask him questions about this stuff its always in his style to agree with them and then say what he thinks is good in a convoluted way that usually doesn't answer the question.  You can find this happening at various panels he has answered questions at.

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Yeah, you do realize he just said "that makes sense but...." because he was disagreeing but because he talks to disgruntled fans all the time (even from the casual sector- "where are my brutes in campaign!!!???") he's really good at saying "yeah but..."   in a way that calms the person down.  Basically in PR fashion.

 

Basically he played you.  He's already made his decision, and any time people ask him questions about this stuff its always in his style to agree with them and then say what he thinks is good in a convoluted way that usually doesn't answer the question.  You can find this happening at various panels he has answered questions at.

A PR guy's job is to spin the good side of things to people in order to tell them what best benefits his side. That's his job. 

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Yeah, you do realize he just said "that makes sense but...." because he was disagreeing but because he talks to disgruntled fans all the time (even from the casual sector- "where are my brutes in campaign!!!???") he's really good at saying "yeah but..."   in a way that calms the person down.  Basically in PR fashion.

 

Basically he played you.  He's already made his decision, and any time people ask him questions about this stuff its always in his style to agree with them and then say what he thinks is good in a convoluted way that usually doesn't answer the question.  You can find this happening at various panels he has answered questions at.

 

yeah, but. This wasn't a panel, I happened to catch him in the halls and had a good 5 minute (at least) discussion. It was more than a year ago, so I can't quote word for word what we both said, but I brought some points that he agreed with and he asked some questions that I wasn't prepared for. It wasn't exactly like you think

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yeah, but. This wasn't a panel, I happened to catch him in the halls and had a good 5 minute (at least) discussion. It was more than a year ago, so I can't quote word for word what we both said, but I brought some points that he agreed with and he asked some questions that I wasn't prepared for. It wasn't exactly like you think

Listen, regardless of the fact that he is paying PR even with talking with fans (and I'm absolutely sure that he is genuine about it too- he honestly feels that that's the best way to talk with people: "professionally"), we knew what his reasoning was since reach has been out.

 

One of the first things we heard was that frank doesn't like ranking systems because of the bad apples who abuse the system, and we've also known that that's a bullshit reason since the pros obviously outweigh the cons.  It's better to deal with derankers than have no ranking system at all.  Besides, better algorithms can further limit the amount of derankers.

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Frankie to me at RTX when I asked him about a ranking system. My explanation was that it is used to provide more even match ups for the enjoyment of everyone. Good players don't really like destroying everyone all day and bad players don't like getting destroyed. He said that how I explained it made sense and that his main concern was to prevent cheaters/derankers so that people would always be evenly matched. I forget his exact words, but he did say that my reasoning made sense.

 

 

 

 

Boom.

 

You realize that the subtle implication of what I said was, "they admit it makes sense, AND put it into action."

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That's not the point.

 

I've never seen Quinn demonstrate in-depth knowledge of how competitive Halo works.

 

He might know it - but I've never seen it.

 

And please bear in mind, before anyone suggests it, just because one knows how to nade camo on Damnation doesn't make them an expert.

Well it's quite hard to fully see his potential when he hasn't been at 343 for the development of H4. Being on the Sustain team of a big title is much different anyway because you have less time and resources to do stuff. 

 

If he's involved heavily with H5 then I think we can judge him off that.

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Uh, what?

 

You're saying if I get Quinn in here right now, he can tell me all of the random spawn spots on Hang'em? Y'know, without Google?

So I tried tweeting him to ask, but it's 9:00 a.m. I already knew that he played competitive Halo before me, so I just used the Google machine.

 

On his personal website quinndiesel.com (lol), he lists multiple things he's done in the past, level design mostly. If you go to his resume page and scroll to the bottom you will find his hobbies/interests list. First thing it says is " Extensive experience playing competitive multiplayer games at a high level." Then there is a list-

1.Starcraft -  6 years

2.HALO CE - 3 YEARS

3.Splinter Cell: Pandora tomorrow, Chaos theory - 2 years

4.Halo 3 - 1+ year

5.Halo 2 - 1 + year

6. Gears of War - 1+ year

 

Now, does this confirm that he knew bottom camo ramp was a random? Or that middle ditch near Health pack was too? or that back corner in red tombs forces your teammate top blue pistol? I don't know. The man played Halo 1 on a competitive level for it's entire lifespan. I have to say that we as competitive H1 players are a VERY small group. It is almost impossible to find someone who understands  randoms, forced spawns, and uses a timer without finding them on the internet. The fact that Quinn DelHoyo works at 343i and is in a position to influence Multiplayer design is something that ALL of us H1 kids and competitive halo players alike should be happy about.

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Tell you what.

 

Why don't you provide me a single, solitary example of an instance where anyone except Bravo and Ghost have actually said, to one of us in the competitive community, "oh, well now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense."

 

Just kidding, I'll win that bet.

Quinn has many times... Namely with the 2-Shot Beatdown and the 11-Bullet Kill BR.

 

-Ghost

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Quinn's argument for the flagnum vs dropping was the first reason why I don't have full faith in him.

 

 

Also, I'd love for him to clarify on his competitive Halo CE experience. It could be true, but I just can't see it based on the opinions he has and the logic to back them up. A lot of people lie about H1 experience, but unless you were actually going to events or playing against those who did, you weren't competitive. I play the game with a competitive mindset, but I wasn't a competitive Halo CE player. I missed that boat unfortunately.

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So I tried tweeting him to ask, but it's 9:00 a.m. I already knew that he played competitive Halo before me, so I just used the Google machine.

 

On his personal website quinndiesel.com (lol), he lists multiple things he's done in the past, level design mostly. If you go to his resume page and scroll to the bottom you will find his hobbies/interests list. First thing it says is " Extensive experience playing competitive multiplayer games at a high level." Then there is a list-

1.Starcraft -  6 years

2.HALO CE - 3 YEARS

3.Splinter Cell: Pandora tomorrow, Chaos theory - 2 years

4.Halo 3 - 1+ year

5.Halo 2 - 1 + year

6. Gears of War - 1+ year

 

Now, does this confirm that he knew bottom camo ramp was a random? Or that middle ditch near Health pack was too? or that back corner in red tombs forces your teammate top blue pistol? I don't know. The man played Halo 1 on a competitive level for it's entire lifespan. I have to say that we as competitive H1 players are a VERY small group. It is almost impossible to find someone who understands  randoms, forced spawns, and uses a timer without finding them on the internet. The fact that Quinn DelHoyo works at 343i and is in a position to influence Multiplayer design is something that ALL of us H1 kids and competitive halo players alike should be happy about.

 

First of all, Sage Merrill was a major player in one of the most competitive console shooters of all time. We don't specifically know to what degree he was involved with Reach, but look at what we got. 

 

Secondly, did Quinn go to tournaments or something? I've never heard of anyone who played randies with their brothers/cousins/whoever and actually had an in-depth understanding of what makes H1 great. 

 

Quinn has many times... Namely with the 2-Shot Beatdown and the 11-Bullet Kill BR.

 

-Ghost

 

Let's run with this for a second. 

 

If I asked Quinn why both of those things were actually implemented, what are the reasons that he is going to give to me? 

 

But even beside that, if you tell Quinn we need small maps with better vertical orientation, faster base movement, no sprint, descope, no flinch, no bloom, no spread, further decreased kill times, no no-scope aim assist on the beam rifle, better spreadshot weapons (is there ANY reason to pick up the shotgun or the scattershot), less aim assist (bullet magnetism seems to be okay), no PODs, default static weapon timers, a clear cut separation between 4v4 and 8v8 gametypes, camo/damage boost/speed boost/etc. as pickups, no promethean vision, weapon damage modifiers, etc. etc... ...he could punch all of this through? The Halo series has a LOT of problems - the two-shot beat down is fairly trivial in comparison, and the 11-bullet BR kill is a false fix for another problem. 

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First of all, Sage Merrill was a major player in one of the most competitive console shooters of all time. We don't specifically know to what degree he was involved with Reach, but look at what we got. 

 

Secondly, did Quinn go to tournaments or something? I've never heard of anyone who played randies with their brothers/cousins/whoever and actually had an in-depth understanding of what makes H1 great. 

 

 

Let's run with this for a second. 

 

If I asked Quinn why both of those things were actually implemented, what are the reasons that he is going to give to me? 

 

But even beside that, if you tell Quinn we need small maps with better vertical orientation, faster base movement, no sprint, descope, no flinch, no bloom, no spread, further decreased kill times, no no-scope aim assist on the beam rifle, better spreadshot weapons (is there ANY reason to pick up the shotgun or the scattershot), less aim assist (bullet magnetism seems to be okay), no PODs, default static weapon timers, a clear cut separation between 4v4 and 8v8 gametypes, camo/damage boost/speed boost/etc. as pickups, no promethean vision, weapon damage modifiers, etc. etc... ...he could punch all of this through? The Halo series has a LOT of problems - the two-shot beat down is fairly trivial in comparison, and the 11-bullet BR kill is a false fix for another problem. 

 

Sage Merrill <3 Bloom.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I couldn't think how to properly word the 11 shot BR bullet or 2 shot beatdown examples, but those didn't seem like fixes that came from a result of the community wanting a different mechanic, but the fact that it was pretty badly broken before, and if they didn't get a fix out soon they would most likely lose even more of the fan base.

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First of all, Sage Merrill was a major player in one of the most competitive console shooters of all time. We don't specifically know to what degree he was involved with Reach, but look at what we got. 

 

Secondly, did Quinn go to tournaments or something? I've never heard of anyone who played randies with their brothers/cousins/whoever and actually had an in-depth understanding of what makes H1 great. 

 

 

Let's run with this for a second. 

 

If I asked Quinn why both of those things were actually implemented, what are the reasons that he is going to give to me? 

 

But even beside that, if you tell Quinn we need small maps with better vertical orientation, faster base movement, no sprint, descope, no flinch, no bloom, no spread, further decreased kill times, no no-scope aim assist on the beam rifle, better spreadshot weapons (is there ANY reason to pick up the shotgun or the scattershot), less aim assist (bullet magnetism seems to be okay), no PODs, default static weapon timers, a clear cut separation between 4v4 and 8v8 gametypes, camo/damage boost/speed boost/etc. as pickups, no promethean vision, weapon damage modifiers, etc. etc... ...he could punch all of this through? The Halo series has a LOT of problems - the two-shot beat down is fairly trivial in comparison, and the 11-bullet BR kill is a false fix for another problem. 

 

I mean... I could bring up every conversation that I've had with nearly every decision-making employee at 343 Industries, but you were just asking about Quinn. So in response to your pondering, there are many employees that listen to what we have to say. I've had the pleasure of sitting down with many of them, and they all possess a large sense of humility. They understand that we are the players, and that we know what's best at times. They have all been sincerely open-minded when discussing any issue whatsoever, and they don't hide behind their job title or degree when discussing reasoning.  I understand that there are many flaws with the current state of Halo in the competitive community's eyes, but thankfully we have a developer who's interested in the competitive community's standpoint.  Come to think of it, I haven't met one person at 343 Industries who's acted pretentious or close-minded, opposed to Bungie's history. So in conclusion, they have hired the right people.  I wouldn't be so optimistic and faithful if I hadn't touched base with these people... so I come to our community to spread that good news.  Now, I'm not sitting here telling you that the next Halo will be the best one yet - just merely stating that we can now have some confidence behind that idea because we have intelligent and open-minded people working on the following title.

 

-Ghost

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If 3 years of "playing CE at a high level" is good enough to make him a dev why isn't Ogre2 designing Halo 5?

 

While I'm certainly not advocating for that, I would prefer it if I had only two choices.

 

There are people in the Halo community that have far more knowledge about Halo than 343i could ever hope to. It's insane to have that asset and not utilize it.

 

Unfortunately the mindset there is "Don't hire someone unless they have worked on a AAA franchise."

 

 

 

 

(yes Bravo is the sole exception but that's a whole different story)

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I mean... I could bring up every conversation that I've had with nearly every decision-making employee at 343 Industries, but you were just asking about Quinn. So in response to your pondering, there are many employees that listen to what we have to say. I've had the pleasure of sitting down with many of them, and they all possess a large sense of humility. They understand that we are the players, and that we know what's best at times. They have all been sincerely open-minded when discussing any issue whatsoever, and they don't hide behind their job title or degree when discussing reasoning.  I understand that there are many flaws with the current state of Halo in the competitive community's eyes, but thankfully we have a developer who's interested in the competitive community's standpoint.  Come to think of it, I haven't met one person at 343 Industries who's acted pretentious or close-minded, opposed to Bungie's history. So in conclusion, they have hired the right people.  I wouldn't be so optimistic and faithful if I hadn't touched base with these people... so I come to our community to spread that good news.  Now, I'm not sitting here telling you that the next Halo will be the best one yet - just merely stating that we can now have some confidence behind that idea because we have intelligent and open-minded people working on the following title.

 

-Ghost

 

This would imply, mind you, that H4 was a completely botched project. As far as I can see, however, 343 has gone out of their way to remark on how happy they are with the game they've presented to us. 

 

We don't get to see the decision-making process, so the only thing that we have to go on is what we get. And I sure hope you're right about H5, Ghost. I really, really do...

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I mean... I could bring up every conversation that I've had with nearly every decision-making employee at 343 Industries, but you were just asking about Quinn. So in response to your pondering, there are many employees that listen to what we have to say. I've had the pleasure of sitting down with many of them, and they all possess a large sense of humility. They understand that we are the players, and that we know what's best at times. They have all been sincerely open-minded when discussing any issue whatsoever, and they don't hide behind their job title or degree when discussing reasoning.  I understand that there are many flaws with the current state of Halo in the competitive community's eyes, but thankfully we have a developer who's interested in the competitive community's standpoint.  Come to think of it, I haven't met one person at 343 Industries who's acted pretentious or close-minded, opposed to Bungie's history. So in conclusion, they have hired the right people.  I wouldn't be so optimistic and faithful if I hadn't touched base with these people... so I come to our community to spread that good news.  Now, I'm not sitting here telling you that the next Halo will be the best one yet - just merely stating that we can now have some confidence behind that idea because we have intelligent and open-minded people working on the following title.

 

-Ghost

This is all fine and dandy but the only thing we care about are actual results. And results given to use in a timely fashion. The vast majority of people don't care when they start fixing shit once the daily peak population stoops down to 30k.

 

edit: and lol @ Lemon's rep #. let's try to keep it at 343 :P

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And results given to use in a timely fashion.

 

You are very polite. I expect a game to be finished at launch.

 

This "Save Halo" stuff is horrible. If any has to "Save" Halo 5 it'll be sad as fuck. There is absolutely no reason - other than unexpected glitches - for Halo to not work like it's supposed to at launch. The formula already exists, just use it.

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You are very polite. I expect a game to be finished at launch.

 

This "Save Halo" stuff is horrible. If any has to "Save" Halo 5 it'll be sad as fuck. There is absolutely no reason - other than unexpected glitches - for Halo to not work like it's supposed to at launch. The formula already exists, just use it.

When will people stop being naive and realize that we are just like any other group of people? We have complacent people, apathetic people, caring people, and assholes. Asking us to rally up and form a unified voice is laughable, especially since this is dealing with a freaking video game. The burden of action of is on the developers.

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Quinn has many times... Namely with the 2-Shot Beatdown and the 11-Bullet Kill BR.

 

-Ghost

Wasn't the only reason why we got a 2-Shot beatdown was because of you and Ninja when you went over to 343i? They weren't even going to test it until you guys brought it up.

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Quinn has many times... Namely with the 2-Shot Beatdown and the 11-Bullet Kill BR.

 

-Ghost

Did H2 have the 2 shot beatdown?

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 no no-scope aim assist on the beam rifle, better spreadshot weapons (is there ANY reason to pick up the shotgun or the scattershot), less aim assist

I have to disagree with you on these 3.

 

1.  The beam rifle is a power weapon in halo 4.  It is ok to be super powerful- that's the point of it.  Really it just needs to not be infinite ammo in team snipers.

 

2. yes, there are definitely reasons to pick up the scattershot and shotgun lol.  Scattershot destroys up close.

 

3. There was more aim assist in halo 2.  Maybe you still would like it to be smaller than halo 2, but you can still have a competitive game with loads of aim assist.

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Power weapons need to have the right balance between ease of use and potential damage output. The rockets and sniper are balanced but the beam rifle is clearly not.

Rockets: easy to use, high potential damage output
Sniper: hard to use, very high potential damage output (considering the usual size of the clip)
Beam Rifle: easy to use, very high potential damage output

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I have to disagree with you on these 3.

 

1.  The beam rifle is a power weapon in halo 4.  It is ok to be super powerful- that's the point of it.  Really it just needs to not be infinite ammo in team snipers.

 

2. yes, there are definitely reasons to pick up the scattershot and shotgun lol.  Scattershot destroys up close.

 

3. There was more aim assist in halo 2.  Maybe you still would like it to be smaller than halo 2, but you can still have a competitive game with loads of aim assist.

 

The sniper is a power weapon in Halo 4. The beam rifle is an over-powered weapon in Halo 4. 

 

So does the bolt shot. 

 

The aim assist mention was more or less for everybody else. I really don't care about it as long as it's not H2 all over again. 

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