Jump to content
menotyou135

Sit down. Shut up. And.....

Recommended Posts

 IMO MS and 343 are doing what all capitalistic enterprises do to make the most money. We in the USA are the kings of consumption, why? I believe that Madison Avenue (advertising mecca) knows exactly how to promote the NEW. Most advertising is targeted to 10 to 35 years old because they know that is the psychological age more susceptible to advertising the NEW. Just pay attention to ads promoting the NEW even if the difference between the last year product and new product is minimal.

How does this relate to Halo and video games? If you noticed the time between releases is getting shorter because is how 343 make it's money, MM is secondary because the majority of people that have x box gold memberships have it not just because of Halo but because all the other services and games that can be played. 343 doesn't make money from x box gold but makes it by selling Halo, so 343 focus is on promoting and selling Halo 5.

 

Halo 4 is the old and inconsequential at this time on their eyes and the media (pretty much same advertising) gave it great reviews and  that media will be used again to promote the NEW halo.

They know that when the NEW arrives it will be bought because advertising, it is where they make their money so why should they care about the loyal 5% halo buyers and MM. Hey! the greatest NEW Halo is coming just buy it. I won't be surprised if Halo 5 breaks Halo 4 record.

So we can pout, yell, be angry etc. and won't make a difference because it doesn't and won't affect how many Halo 5 games are sold and they already got a great revenue from Halo 4. Hey! they already got my $100 for Halo 4 LE and the fact that I have been loyal to halo since 2001 is of no importance to 343. There is a sucker one born every minute that will buy Halo 5.

I guess I'm to cynical. ;)

Share this post


Link to post

 IMO MS and 343 are doing what all capitalistic enterprises do to make the most money. We in the USA are the kings of consumption, why? I believe that Madison Avenue (advertising mecca) knows exactly how to promote the NEW. Most advertising is targeted to 10 to 35 years old because they know that is the psychological age more susceptible to advertising the NEW. Just pay attention to ads promoting the NEW even if the difference between the last year product and new product is minimal.

 

How does this relate to Halo and video games? If you noticed the time between releases is getting shorter because is how 343 make it's money, MM is secondary because the majority of people that have x box gold memberships have it not just because of Halo but because all the other services and games that can be played. 343 doesn't make money from x box gold but makes it by selling Halo, so 343 focus is on promoting and selling Halo 5.

 

Halo 4 is the old and inconsequential at this time on their eyes and the media (pretty much same advertising) gave it great reviews and  that media will be used again to promote the NEW halo.

 

They know that when the NEW arrives it will be bought because advertising, it is where they make their money so why should they care about the loyal 5% halo buyers and MM. Hey! the greatest NEW Halo is coming just buy it. I won't be surprised if Halo 5 breaks Halo 4 record.

 

So we can pout, yell, be angry etc. and won't make a difference because it doesn't and won't affect how many Halo 5 games are sold and they already got a great revenue from Halo 4. Hey! they already got my $100 for Halo 4 LE and the fact that I have been loyal to halo since 2001 is of no importance to 343. There is a sucker one born every minute that will buy Halo 5.

 

I guess I'm to cynical. ;)

 

Of course the hardcore will always be less significant sales wise make up less of the gaming population than the casual/middle-road audience, that does not stop even annual franchises like CoD from supporting their comp community and throwing developer/Publisher run tournaments.

 

It all comes back to one essential question that drives everyone in the comp Halo community crazy and to lash out. Why is Halo despite being one of the most significant FPS e-sports of the last decade, not supported as an e-sport by the developer?  Is that fair to the pro players who have made their livelihoods thus far from Halo to not support their profession and dream? Is that fair to the comp Halo community that has supported the game since day 1 and wants Halo to prosper just like the developers do?

 

Pro players like Walshy, SS T2,ect... have promoted the game for Microsoft abroad and then Microsoft cant do the same for them? Its just ridiculous that little to no attention has been paid to the comp/e-sport side of Halo despite having a booming scene at one time. When MLG dropped Halo it had nothing left, no one left to support it but a dying and demoralized community. Did the developer give support then? No, like always they neglected the scene with H4. The community still managed to stabilize itself through AGL/UMG but to truly bring comp Halo back we need something we have never had.... e-sport support from the developer.

Share this post


Link to post

Why is developer support something we need. What do you consider developer support? The FGC doesn't have developer support why do we?

Share this post


Link to post

Bold. 

 

Tell you what.

 

Why don't you provide me a single, solitary example of an instance where anyone except Bravo and Ghost have actually said, to one of us in the competitive community, "oh, well now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense."

 

Just kidding, I'll win that bet.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe it's me, but I think we are doing our part, we are demonstrating that with a few changes and some maps, we are able to have our beloved Halo back. But the other side is focusing on other things( Hopefully fixing everything from Halo4 and implementing the right changes to Halo 5), I don't want to give up on this game and im pretty sure all of you don't wanna give up, but our choices are getting slimmer with a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. 

Share this post


Link to post

Why is developer support something we need. What do you consider developer support? The FGC doesn't have developer support why do we?

 

Because developers have the tools to give us a better game. With mods we do too. 

 

What we do not have is the ability to get that better game into matchmaking where it is feasible to play whenever you want. We also do not have the ability to make Halo 5 a better game until people get the mods working. Furthermore, even then, it is better to start off with a decent Halo 5, than start off with a shitty Halo 5 and have to mod it to make it decent. 

 

That is why. 

 

Fighting games don't require developer support because they are already good. If you don't make a good fighting game, you don't sell. There are tons of other fighting games to take your place.

 

Also, fighting games are 1v1 format and only require one system per match. Halo is 4v4 format and requires 8 systems per match. Therefore, logistically, it is not even remotely difficult for someone to run a fighting games tournament with around 8-16 players in their garage/store/school/hotel/whatever. They can even stream it. It is difficult to run a Halo tournament with 8-16 teams due to the fact that you now are dealing with 32-64 people, and most people can only stream 1/8th of what is going on at any moment. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Tell you what.

 

Why don't you provide me a single, solitary example of an instance where anyone except Bravo and Ghost have actually said, to one of us in the competitive community, "oh, well now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense."

 

Just kidding, I'll win that bet.

 

You just ignored the points I brought up.

 

Who cares if they get it. They change things when we unite. That is the point. They don't change things when we mope around. Unless you can prove me wrong about that somehow, I don't see why you are still arguing. 

 

If your point is that they don't change enough, then I agree completely. We are in a shit situation. Everybody knows that. Acting all condescending to the people trying to make them change more doesn't help. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

This negitivity is making it seem like this website should be renamed "beyond negativity"

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

love Halo and i always will no matter how much it changes, i don't really care as much for it anymore but i still find myself only playing

Halo 4 lol... I just hope the game can get that little boost until H5, and i just wanna thank everyone involved in trying to make that possible. Anyone in my opinion who didn't have the chance to enjoy the greatness that is Halo 2 missed out on the greatest multiplayer experience for an FPS. If H5 is anything like H2 then i say we're moving in the right way to bring the community back and stronger, but for now i guess i'll still be rockin with H4. Lets keep Halo alive....

Share this post


Link to post

Tell you what.

 

Why don't you provide me a single, solitary example of an instance where anyone except Bravo and Ghost have actually said, to one of us in the competitive community, "oh, well now that I think about it, what you're saying makes sense."

 

Just kidding, I'll win that bet.

I don't have a dog in this fight Lemon but when 343i brought out ninja, neighbor, ghost and a few others, ghost spent according to him a good long hour explaining to Quinn delHoyo and others involved in the H4 weapons update how important a 2-shot beatdown would be. This literally was not even in the build when they were there, and a few weeks later not only had they considered the suggestion, they got it implemented and released along with the rest of the update.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't have a dog in this fight Lemon but when 343i brought out ninja, neighbor, ghost and a few others, ghost spent according to him a good long hour explaining to Quinn delHoyo and others involved in the H4 weapons update how important a 2-shot beatdown would be. This literally was not even in the build when they were there, and a few weeks later not only had they considered the suggestion, they got it implemented and released along with the rest of the update.

 

Are we talking about actual increased melee damage, or bleedthrough?

 

You just ignored the points I brought up.

 

Who cares if they get it. They change things when we unite. That is the point. They don't change things when we mope around. Unless you can prove me wrong about that somehow, I don't see why you are still arguing. 

 

If your point is that they don't change enough, then I agree completely. We are in a shit situation. Everybody knows that. Acting all condescending to the people trying to make them change more doesn't help. 

 

I'm sorry, does being united in frustration not count?

 

Last time I checked, 95% of us on this website are on the same page as far as the direction we want Halo's balance to go.

 

What in god's name are you expecting?

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Are we talking about actual increased melee damage, or bleedthrough?

 

 

I'm sorry, does being united in frustration not count?

 

Last time I checked, 95% of us on this website are on the same page as far as the direction we want Halo's balance to go.

 

What in god's name are you expecting?

Dude, relax. I am frustrated too. I quit the community completely because of it. I only came back when I saw some of the things that were going on, and even now, I kind of wish I hadn't because life was less stressful for the last couple months. 

 

I understand you. I get it. We are on the same page there.

 

The only thing that I am trying to say is that yelling about our frustration does nothing. Taking a step back and a few minutes to breath before using what options we do have does. 

 

We're on the same side here. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why is developer support something we need. What do you consider developer support? The FGC doesn't have developer support why do we?

 

FGC is irrelevant to single entity 4v4 team games like Halo, they are not comparable. EVERY game at MLG currently has spec mode, EVERY game has dev run tournaments or dev sponsored tournaments, EVERY game has a comp ranking system, EVERY game has people hired at their studio to specifically to take feed-back from the comp community and overlook e-sport operations. Halo has none of the above, it needs developer support and the right spectating tools/community building tools to succeed as an e-sport in this day and age.

 

I would suggest you read this if you want to know the general requirements of a successful e-sport explained in full  ;)  http://www.gamezone.com/originals/2011/09/27/elements_of_a_successful_esport_an_e-sports_dail-e_special_report

Share this post


Link to post

Because developers have the tools to give us a better game. With mods we do too.

 

What we do not have is the ability to get that better game into matchmaking where it is feasible to play whenever you want. We also do not have the ability to make Halo 5 a better game until people get the mods working. Furthermore, even then, it is better to start off with a decent Halo 5, than start off with a shitty Halo 5 and have to mod it to make it decent.

 

That is why.

 

Fighting games don't require developer support because they are already good. If you don't make a good fighting game, you don't sell. There are tons of other fighting games to take your place.

 

Also, fighting games are 1v1 format and only require one system per match. Halo is 4v4 format and requires 8 systems per match. Therefore, logistically, it is not even remotely difficult for someone to run a fighting games tournament with around 8-16 players in their garage/store/school/hotel/whatever. They can even stream it. It is difficult to run a Halo tournament with 8-16 teams due to the fact that you now are dealing with 32-64 people, and most people can only stream 1/8th of what is going on at any moment.

I don't if you have heard but major Nelson reported Modding to be supported on the X1. I thought you might have been interested in that.

 

We could have communication with the dev, however until we are the dev we will never get that type of support. Microsoft would not allow us and honestly I doubt any dev would want to have that much community influence over their game. In your original post you point out ghost and the communities gripes and your own of some of his choices. Now Ghost isn't a dev but I can imagine that with all the different opinions he probably understands why 343i does things the way they do them and why its perceived the dev doesn't care.

 

Your absolutely right about uniting our voices gets things changed but its not just our voices its the voices of every Halo player. Competitive, casual, and everything in between.

 

I get that its harder to run a 4v4 then it is run a 1v1. But if your suggesting the dev put cash to support buying the equipment then I doubt that will happen. Giving money to the league to support the prize pool I can see and I can see them giving a money to the league. PlayStation did it with black ops and did treyarch but in the beginning halo got dropped because of the lack of viewers and attendance treyarch just added to the CoD cake it wasn't the sole reason.

 

Now if your talking a spectator view yes that would be awesome but it was to late Halo 4 was gold. Here's hoping to Halo 5 having it since we have zero communication as a community with the developer.

 

We do not have to stick to 4v4 format. I prefer 1v1 right now because I do not have a team. AGL is doing great with 1v1/2v2/FFA by show casing these other formats they will attract more people.

 

I'm willing to bet newcomers would be more interested in formats because of how easy they are to get into.

 

I get what your saying I just don't believe dev support is a necessity right now.

Share this post


Link to post

FGC is irrelevant to single entity 4v4 team games like Halo, they are not comparable. EVERY game at MLG currently has spec mode, EVERY game has dev run tournaments or dev sponsored tournaments, EVERY game has a comp ranking system, EVERY game has people hired at their studio to specifically to take feed-back from the comp community and overlook e-sport operations. Halo has none of the above, it needs developer support and the right spectating tools/community building tools to succeed as an e-sport in this day and age.

 

I would suggest you read this if you want to know the general requirements of a successful e-sport explained in full ;)http://www.gamezone.com/originals/2011/09/27/elements_of_a_successful_esport_an_e-sports_dail-e_special_report

I will be enlightened.

 

***edit.

 

Alright I read it and Halo is what spectator mode and dev support away from being able to being a successful e-sport. Honestly Halo 4 is close to Halo 2 viewers wise - attendance wise. A few months come and go and maybe we are there attendance. We have everything else. UMG and AGL are legitimate leagues. I was stoaked watching the last AGL event. The competition, quality, etc got me excited. I really enjoyed the last event. Currently watching the VoD now. I truly believe that the competitive Halo community is rebuilding and if we continue to gain support and add to our ranks with Halo 4's current population we can near Halo3 levels of participation in the Halo 5 playlist.

 

I understand not everyone shares my optimistic point of view and that's fine but competitive Halo is finally moving forward instead of backwards like it was during end of Halo 3.

Share this post


Link to post

Are we talking about actual increased melee damage, or bleedthrough?

Increased BR damage. Used to be a 12-bullet, too.

Share this post


Link to post

Dude, relax. I am frustrated too. I quit the community completely because of it. I only came back when I saw some of the things that were going on, and even now, I kind of wish I hadn't because life was less stressful for the last couple months. 

 

I understand you. I get it. We are on the same page there.

 

The only thing that I am trying to say is that yelling about our frustration does nothing. Taking a step back and a few minutes to breath before using what options we do have does. 

 

We're on the same side here. 

 

I haven't "yelled" at the developer since 2009. Coincidentally, that's also around the time when I lost all hope.

 

The point here is that absolutely nobody on this forum has any base by which they can reasonably assert that the next Halo game is going to be better. Every single Halo sequel has had these SUREFIRE saviors added to the team, with SUREFIRE updates about cool new features, and every one of them has been a bigger failure than the last when it comes to competitive play.

 

If you want to get your hopes up, great. Go ahead. And when shit goes south for the fifth time in a row, I'll be sitting back here, shrugging my shoulders, and dry of sympathy.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

@Echos

 

Oh... I thought you meant something else by dev support.

 

In that case, I agree that devs don't really need to support live events. We have that covered. It is nice if they do, but you are right that it isn't necessary. 

Share this post


Link to post

Meh whether the next Halo is better than Halo 4 doesn't really matter to me. I'll buy it anyways. I like the story. I like the universe. I like what people can do with the game no matter how much or how little is given to them. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You can't take away something FOR NO REASON, then give it back and expect us to be grateful.

Share this post


Link to post

Ghost, Bravo and Quinn. That is all I hear.

 

The best they can do it make ONE playlist (Hardcore/throwdown) good.

 

THE ENTIRE COMPANY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND HALO, NO JUST 3 PEOPLE.

 

What about the sandbox team? Weapon tuning needs to be balanced and polished on release to have a good overall game in ALL PLAYLIST. They need to understand halo

 

What about the map creaters? They need to make smooth maps with areas of contest that are important to the outcome of the game as well as proper areas for power weapons to be at. They need to understand halo too.

 

What about the employees that work on the geometry/physics details of the game, we need good strafing, nade physics, bullet mag and aim assist polished. They need to understand halo too.

 

 

Bravo and Quinn are just little voices in a big company that has already put in motion their vision of halo's future and there is not much they can do about it.

 

Ghost assembles a good playlist depending on the tools he is given by 343.

 

Yes Ghost and Bravo understand halo but If halo is not build on a competitive foundation established by testers, map creaters, multiplayer leaders and people in the "Get Shit Done Department" (as stated by cursed lemon) then halo will fail as a whole.

 

I am giving the community the benefit of the doubt that many of us here can create a good list of things that would benefit halo. But why does it matter anyway, we are not building halo, THEY ARE.

 

Why don't they sit down and have a chat with us? Because they truly believe they understand halo and have no need for that.

 

              Sit Down. Shut Up

              And Deal with 343.

Because there is nothing you can do about it.

 

 

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

When Ghost mentioned he added storm rifles on purpose to essentially "troll" or divert the communities attention, he gained a ton of my respect. The man has done wonders for this series and has shown he is extremely resilient.

Share this post


Link to post

 

What about the sandbox team? Weapon tuning needs to be balanced and polished on release to have a good overall game in ALL PLAYLIST. They need to understand halo

 

Quin is going to be lead MP designer in H5. Everything goes to him. Bravo is on MP team as well, and will probably still run playlists post release.

 

What about the map creaters? They need to make smooth maps with areas of contest that are important to the outcome of the game as well as proper areas for power weapons to be at. They need to understand halo too.

 

Kynan Pearson is gone. He was the lead map guy. Not saying the person who takes over is going to be any better. He might even be worse. However, Kynan was shitty. His interviews, he would talk about BTB out the ass, but on small maps he sounded lost. He didn't understand 4v4, which is probably a large reason for the lackluster side of that. I doubt many people could be worse.

 

What about the employees that work on the geometry/physics details of the game, we need good strafing, nade physics, bullet mag and aim assist polished. They need to understand halo too.

 

These elements are the ones that are least poor of the ones you mentioned. The geometry of maps doesn't have huge holes (anymore). The physics of movement are fine and not buggy (disregarding sprint). The nades are much better than Halo Reach. The bullet mags for most weapons is decent (besides carbine). The aim assist is lower than Halo 2 levels. 

 

 

 

As for people who don't know their head from their ass: Kevin Franklin is no longer lead of MP design (Quinn took over). Frankie is still as powerful as ever. Kynan Pearson is gone. We really only hear about 5 people at 343i. Quin, Bravo, BSangel, Frankie, and Kevin. BS angel doesn't actually have any say on gameplay, so of the 4 people who we actually talk about, two are on our side. That is an increase of infinity percent. We have never had a high up person who was on our side. Now we have two and one is the lead MP designer. He is literally the one everybody reports too except maybe Frankie or the suits at microsoft. 

 

We don't really know anybody else who works there except for a few quick images from vidocs or short interviews. And there are a large number of people working there. Most of them are doing things like modeling, texture, lighting, animation, story, and in general making the game pretty. There is a lot of work that goes into that and those things don't really effect what we care about. 

 

For everbody else, we don't really know what their opinons are. For all you know, there is a guy who used to place top 24 back in fucking 2006. We wouldn't know. Furthermore, because of the size of the studio, pretty much every choice comes down to the guys in charge. That is how AAA studios work. If you aren't a "name" then you don't really get any say except how shiny a piece of metal is on adrift. That is about it.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why does everyone keep mentioning Quinn like he has Halo expertise? I don't get why we should be super pumped about GoW designer being the head of Halo multi player.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why does everyone keep mentioning Quinn like he has Halo expertise? I don't get why we should be super pumped about GoW designer being the head of Halo multi player.

I don't think Quinn knows how competitive Halo works either. However, he does support competitive gaming and players, giving GOW 3 a spectator mode.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.