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V5 Ideas, requests, and Concerns

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This thread's intended purpose is to collect a healthy and constructive amount of ideas, requests, concerns, and changes in the transition from the upcoming V4 settings into the (assumed) V5 settings.


With the V4 settings compiled and shown in the V4/team Throwdown Discussion Thread, we now have a concrete idea of what will be included as far as gametypes and maps, as well as the settings and load outs used. With that being said, it is never too early to look ahead and speculate as to what should and may need to be changed in the transition to V5. Included topics will be anything involving the weapons, weapon placements, power ups, AAs, settings, maps, changes to map layouts, and gametypes that you want to see or think should be included/removed within the next iteration. Please try your best to have good reasoning and well thought out discussion points to back what you say, and be respectful of others posts (obviously).

Personally I have a few off the top of my head that I'd like to get out there:

•I know that adrift isn't exactly the fan favorite, but if we keep it (which we should, considering it's on disc) I would like to see a weapon placement change involved an OS on top mid, while rockets are put on blue corner, replacing one of the sniper rifles. This way, we have a more malleable choice to make in the beginning of the match, as well as options and scenarios that the flag carrier can play with. Also, taking one power weapon out of the equation will help with the congestion of the hallways, thus helping map movement. I'd really like to see this at least tested out, just to see how it plays.
•No sprint, increase Base movement up to 110%. Sprint is a detriment and a crutch, and why it was even put into this game after it was taken out of Reach due to it's unpopularity baffles me. It makes map design drab and boring, devalues map control and power positions, lower the effectiveness of call outs, allows mistakes to go unpunished, and causes more CQC than needed.
•If we do go with NS settings, scale the maps down to a suitable size for jumps and routes to still be accessible even without sprint.
•Consider Damage Boost as an offensive power up to be controlled on at least one map. DB is plenty capable for utilization as a map placed power up to be controlled for offensive strategy. It only lasts 30 seconds, meaning it must be used quickly, thus disrupting stand offs and speeding up gameplay; It would be a perfectly viable opposite to OS, allowing for a team that is down to turn the tables through a perfectly balanced and fair scenario; it would open up the games sandbox more than we already have; and it would give plenty of help to the metagame, giving many new and exciting strategies to be devised and executed.
•Consider a new map remake. When I say new, I mean something that we haven't seen remade for tournament play. I, personally, would love to see Cold Storage or Construct be remade for this game. Both play extremely well and have proven their competitive nature through trial and error. I understand people have a thing against remade maps, but they don't make a new NASCAR track ever year for a reason. Muscle memory makes for exciting plays and strategies.

Please be respectful and constructive to others when posting.
GO!


 

Compiled list of requests and concerns:

  • Consider replacing Dispatch with a more complex map (Ender, Strident, Confined have been mentioned)
  • Change OS to 90 second timer rather than current 120 second
  • Evaluate Adrift power placements
  • Consider changing weapon spawns on Dispatch 2 PW, 1 PU instead of 3 PW, 1 PU.
  • Consider inclusion of DB/SB in replacement of PW
  • implement NS settings/gametypes/maps if possible
  • Increase base player speed to 120% instead of 110%
  • lower gravity to 95%
  • Consider sliced Monolith as a replacement for Adrift.
  • Switching from dynamic player spawns to a static spawn system
  • Find and test relevant and viable asymmetrical maps
  • Adjust and evaluate quicker spawn timers for PW/PU to match our quicker sandbox after the weapon balancing.
  • Consider changes to abandon's weapon layout (Sniper gold court, rockets/railgun on beach, OS fine)
  • evaluate Shotguns/Scattershots and their viability as usable PW within the settings
  • Push for a Custom PU/Camo pick up for placement on maps.
  • Consider placement of PW/PU on bottom mid court of Haven
  • Make fixing KoTH/Oddball for competitive settings a priority for MM team, so they can be utilized in rotation
  • Encourage the use of maps from multiple forgers
  • Remove OS from initial spawns, consider 90 second timers
  • Consider using KoTH even with points glitch, but modify settings to increase metagame
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I want to have OS at 90 seconds. It is like that in regular matchmaking now. It makes the game faster pace, to match the fast kill times we have. Your (royal) beloved halo 2 had a one min OS and it worked fine. (Very similar kill times). We have to make the casual gamer as familiar with the game as possible. The more things we have in common the better it is for us. Maybe some of the folk of r/halo will start playing more throwdown.

 

Lets see if we can get Quinn and Ghost on the same page so we can have every weapon spawn the same no matter what playlist you play. I think this would be highly beneficial for our cause. We barely surviving, we NEED to bring in the casual halo noob.

 

And fuck dispatch.

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Either cut Dispatch for v5 or put just 1 snipe on the map. Maybe have OS Yellow Sticks, Snipe Green Sticks and Sticky Det Bottom Mid.

Also, #NoSprintv5 <3

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I want to have OS at 90 seconds. It is like that in regular matchmaking now. It makes the game faster pace, to match the fast kill times we have. Your (royal) beloved halo 2 had a one min OS and it worked fine. (Very similar kill times). We have to make the casual gamer as familiar with the game as possible. The more things we have in common the better it is for us. Maybe some of the folk of r/halo will start playing more throwdown.

 

Lets see if we can get Quinn and Ghost on the same page so we can have every weapon spawn the same no matter what playlist you play. I think this would be highly beneficial for our cause. We barely surviving, we NEED to bring in the casual halo noob.

 

And **** dispatch.

I agree and I don't.

we certainly shouldn't be adapting the competitive settings in an attempt to intrigue a player base that won't take the game seriously. That's what 343i did at launch, and we all know how that turned out considering we are still clawing to get out of that hole. We need to keep the settings as competitive as possible, as well as keep the skill gap as large as possible, if we ever want this game to be at least a piece of what it once was.

With that being said, People crave competition. It's human nature and it is enthralling on it's own, with no help of anything else. When people get bored of the ease of infinity slayer and want something that will test them to a greater degree, they will go to Throwdown, and hate it for the first week. Everyone does. I don't know a single person that was good at MLG settings at first. It sucks, you get beat hard, you practice, you get better, you start giving the business, you go to tournaments, you develop an ego, you become a game reviewer. Hence the story of the Halo player.

 

Back on topic, why don't you like dispatch? Give reasoning please.

 

I agree with the OS idea. I would like to see a little more variety of Power spawns than 2 and 3 minute timers.

 

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Either cut Dispatch for v5 or put just 1 snipe on the map. Maybe have OS Yellow Sticks, Snipe Green Sticks and Sticky Det Bottom Mid.

Also, #NoSprintv5 <3

I would like to see that tested. I'm a big believer in asymmetrical Power spawns in that it gives the player a specific choice instead of a weapon rush. It adds more strategy to the game and expands the meta game through more variable choices and rushes.

Although, I will say, I am not a fan of the sticky det. at all. It just doesn't seem worth controlling.

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I would like to see that tested. I'm a big believer in asymmetrical Power spawns in that it gives the player a specific choice instead of a weapon rush. It adds more strategy to the game and expands the meta game through more variable choices and rushes.

Although, I will say, I am not a fan of the sticky det. at all. It just doesn't seem worth controlling.

I agree it's not worth controlling or setting up for but if you pick it up it is worth using. The blast radius on that is insane.

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I agree it's not worth controlling or setting up for but if you pick it up it is worth using. The blast radius on that is insane.

Right but we could have something much more worthy of being a "power weapon" in it's place.

Maybe the SAW, but with not extra clips? that would do plenty to limit it's power considerably, and it would definitely be controllable as well as a table turner late in the game.

Other options that come to head:

  • Speed Boost
  • Railgun
  • Shotgun

The railgun is certainly a force to be reckoned with, so that would take serious consideration and testing before it could be implemented.

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Right but we could have something much more worthy of being a "power weapon" in it's place.

Maybe the SAW, but with not extra clips? that would do plenty to limit it's power considerably, and it would definitely be controllable as well as a table turner late in the game.

Other options that come to head:

  • Speed Boost
  • Railgun
  • Shotgun

The railgun is certainly a force to be reckoned with, so that would take serious consideration and testing before it could be implemented.

Yeah I would like to see Speed Boost utilised more in competitive play, I guess it'd have to be tested first but it's not OP imo. It allows you to strafe like crazy which I love. :D

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I agree and I don't.

we certainly shouldn't be adapting the competitive settings in an attempt to intrigue a player base that won't take the game seriously. That's what 343i did at launch, and we all know how that turned out considering we are still clawing to get out of that hole. We need to keep the settings as competitive as possible, as well as keep the skill gap as large as possible, if we ever want this game to be at least a piece of what it once was.

With that being said, People crave competition. It's human nature and it is enthralling on it's own, with no help of anything else. When people get bored of the ease of infinity slayer and want something that will test them to a greater degree, they will go to Throwdown, and hate it for the first week. Everyone does. I don't know a single person that was good at MLG settings at first. It sucks, you get beat hard, you practice, you get better, you start giving the business, you go to tournaments, you develop an ego, you become a game reviewer. Hence the story of the Halo player.

 

Back on topic, why don't you like dispatch? Give reasoning please.

 

I agree with the OS idea. I would like to see a little more variety of Power spawns than 2 and 3 minute timers.

 

 

I do agree with you on the first part. But some of the changes quinn made (for example to Haven instead of a rail gun a CC rifle) are not horrible. That's why I said compromise, get quinn and ghost on the same page when it comes to weapon placements and times. And we can get the highest skill ceiling across the entire game not just throwdown. Didnt make myself clear sorry :P

 

Dispatch is just a flat map, that provides no depth at all to gameplay. Since it is very open in the middle (of course you could say that about simplex/midship but dispatch is really big so gamplay focuses on the outer ring mostly (other than getting ring 3). 

 

But there are better CTF maps out there when you get the chance check out Ender (wish I could link :/ but I know ghost is considering this map).

 

Glad to see you agree on OS times :) we have good kill times now we should make the game more exciting :)

 

EDIT: Also agree 100% on the DB you raised up. and while I agree on you on sprint I doubt we are going to get it out :/

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Yeah I would like to see Speed Boost utilised more in competitive play, I guess it'd have to be tested first but it's not OP imo. It allows you to strafe like crazy which I love. :D

Exactamundo, sir!

 

I love the  strafe you get with speed boost. also, it gives the flag carrier a significant advantage and could be utilized in flag runs very well. It's certainly not Overpowered, but it could easily change the outcome of a game if you aren't careful.

 

 

I do agree with you on the first part. But some of the changes quinn made (for example to Haven instead of a rail gun a CC rifle) are not horrible. That's why I said compromise, get quinn and ghost on the same page when it comes to weapon placements and times. And we can get the highest skill ceiling across the entire game not just throwdown. Didnt make myself clear sorry :P

 

Dispatch is just a flat map, that provides no depth at all to gameplay. Since it is very open in the middle (of course you could say that about simplex/midship but dispatch is really big so gamplay focuses on the outer ring mostly (other than getting ring 3). 

 

But there are better CTF maps out there when you get the chance check out Ender (wish I could link :/ but I know ghost is considering this map).

 

Glad to see you agree on OS times :) we have good kill times now we should make the game more exciting :)

 

EDIT: Also agree 100% on the DB you raised up. and while I agree on you on sprint I doubt we are going to get it out :/

 

Okay that makes a bit more sense. But let's keep this thread about Throwdown/V5 ideas instead of expanding it to other playlists.

 

Personally, I would like to see Confined utilized in it's place. It might just be because Narrows is one of my favorite maps ever in the history of ever and it certainly gives off that feel, but I think it plays fantastically from a competitive standpoint. Plus, as far as I can tell, Dispatch is only within the current settings because it is familiar. We need to get away from familiar and find things that are exciting and competitive. While I think that there are good parts of Dispatch, and the better team will always win while playing, I think that we have plenty of maps to choose from that would be a perfectly fine replacement.

 

another thing I'm still peeved about is the lack of static spawns. Dynamic spawns are fine for circular maps, but really the only reason we have circular maps is because of sprint. I've talked to Ghost about the spawn system before, and whether he preferred dynamic to static, but never got a full answer as to why he decided to have them the way they are. Personally, I feel that dynamic spawns take away from map control in a very bad way, and are an easy way to make sure people don't get mad about spawn killing. But that was one of the best things about previous games. When you got spawn trapped, you had to fight back or lose horribly. Now, I feel it's almost a crutch for people to keep their composure and not feel disheartened.

 

 

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110% speed is what we have had since V1. 120% speed with no sprint is what the community is aiming for

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No sprint has to be 125. Already tested, works great. 120 is still too slow.

 

Anyways, copied from the other forum

 

Map/weapon/spawn system.

Abandon -  Good to see the 250s spawn theory. I played a few games with what was probably the same system, will make the the map much better. The weapon layout needs rethinking though. OS is in the perfect position, a defensive spot which enforces top mid as the power position, whilst still giving the other team a chance of getting it.

Snipe needs to get away from Gold 2. Teams want to control that spot, why put a snipe on their lap? Place it at gold courtyard. This forces the team to drop down to get it, more encounters are created at that part of the map, and flanks are possible from ring 1/the tunnel next to it, forcing the team in control to cover those areas too. Shotgun at beach achieves nothing. The team at top will never move over to beach to get it, and the team at beach cant break set ups with a shotgun, thus killing the push/pull dynamic of an asym map. Rocks are the ideal weapon for this spot. The team on top will move for it, whilst the team with rocks has to move to actually make it effective (something a snipe wouldnt do there)

Haven - You need a weapon down bottom mid. There is currently no reason for either team to go bottom, cutting the map in half. Putting a desirable weapon down there will create movement and encounters down there, making the map play in a much more interesting way. If you are not going for DB, then Id say Rail gun bottom mid, with snipe and OS up top.

Simplex - (Apologies if I didnt play the right version, got lots of v4 simplexs on my xbox). Rail gun should not be at purple. Its the tower you want to control now after the buff its got. Move that over to bottom yellow to create movement across there. The v4 changes to the map are much better, and if the map can make the bottom level more interesting,varied with flanking options, we could have a good CTF map.

Gametypes

1 plot needs to be 45 seconds. 1 minute just gives the other team too many chances to convert. Put it on 45 seconds, make the games end quicker so that they can be used for split screen play.

Changes

Adrift must go, we have seen too many examples to why its awful. If you are looking for a CTF disc map, go check out the Monolith in my FS. The team cut off one of the towers to make the map play smaller. Its not great, the big tower needs a slight forge make over to make it a more desirable power position (the map currently plays too flat without one), but it plays CTF much better than Adrift.

Im sure you've heard everything about Dispatch by now. Just an all round bad map, too linear, a weak power position at ring 3, snipes are too easy on it. Theres better out there.

I dont mind the onyx/simplex thing. I know it was a last minute change, so good call in picking a fan favourite. However, both can not play in the same 11. Yes, Halo 3 had 5 midship style gametypes, but that was not a good thing at all, especially when we have options. If you still want a landfall map, grab the Unity landfall from my FS. I think it has less pieces so it might not have frame rate lag, cant be sure though. Plays a mean Ext/hill/asym slayer. On that note, the lack of asym maps is a big negative. 1 out of 11 is nowhere near enough, we need to be encouraging the competitive scene that maps with a higher potential meta game are better than 2 base symmetrical maps.

Remove either Onyx or simplex, dispatch gone. We'l see whats available soon.

Going forward

Also, your main utility weapon has dropped from 1.73 to 1.43, its time to reevaluate the sandbox and weapon timers. Items should be spawning faster now, no reason for them not too, forcing players to think more and create more battles for weapons. Rail does not need to be on a 3 min timer now. Other weapons should be getting used with the patch, like the Concussion rifle, and that DB needs to be on the map, no reason not to.

Have more gametypes too. We shouldn't be stuck in the MLG rut of 11 only. Having more makes MM more varied, but split screen players would have more gametypes to play too, helping ensure that they come back for the next competitive event.

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Compiled list of requests and concerns:

 

  • Consider replacing Dispatch with a more complex map (Ender has been mentioned)
  • Change OS to 90 second timer rather than current 120 second
  • Evaluate Adrift power placements

I agree with these.

 

 

  • Consider changing weapon spawns on Dispatch to 2 PW, 1 PU instead of 3 PW, 1 PU.

This is what we have already. Sticky Det left in V3

 

 

  • implement NS settings/gametypes/maps if possible

Sure, with 120% speed

  • Switching from a dynamic spawn system to a static spawn system

This is actually not possible with Ordnance, the way we make static timers is based on random ordnance, and it restricts us to having one static weapon per map (Railguns and Rockets at the moment)

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Base Player Traits:

-No sprint.

-Increase the movement speed to 120%

 

Weapon/Power-Up Alterations:

-Replace all Scattershots with Shotguns. (Scattershots are way too inconsistent).

-Replace Rockets with Overshield on Adrift.

 

Map Alterations:

-Remove either Onyx or Simplex. (They're too similar).

-Add new forge map.

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Base Player Traits:

-No sprint.

-Increase the movement speed to 120%

 

Weapon/Power-Up Alterations:

-Replace all Scattershots with Shotguns. (Scattershots are way too inconsistent).

-Replace Rockets with Overshield on Adrift.

 

Map Alterations:

-Remove either Onyx or Simplex. (They're too similar).

-Add new forge map.

 

Agree with everything but why not just remove Shotgun/Scattershots all together? 

 

Also remove/shrink Station 9 for NS

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Agree with everything but why not just remove Shotgun/Scattershots all together? 

 

Also remove/shrink Station 9 for NS

I'd be fine with them all getting removed. If anything scattershots could get replaced by the boltshot and the boltshots that are just laying around the map should get deleted. This way the Boltshot could be a power weapon. Think of the mauler in Halo 3, for example.

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Eh, Boltshot is a little weaker than Mauler but repositioning would help it as a weapon on map. Bottom mid on Haven works, it should be moved from Simplex ramps to bottom mid.

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Scattershots need to be erased from every map ever in Halo 4 in my opinion. It's frustratingly inconsistent and I don't think it has a place in competitive play. Shotguns might work on some maps, but when in doubt they should just be removed.

On Abandon I would rather see the weapon layout as it is in Team Doubles + overshield at tree, shotgun seems pretty unnecesarry to me. I'm one of the few proponents of having sniper at beach, but I like it because it puts you in a position where you are in danger of being team shot from ring 3, and you have to move to a better position before you can effectively use it. That's why I like it there a lot better than at top gold. Railgun bottom gold is good because it can be dangerous to drop down and get it but it's also a great way to counter ring 3 setups.

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This threads intended purpose is to collect a healthy and constructive amount of ideas, requests, concerns, and changes in the transition from the upcoming V4 settings into the (assumed) V5 settings.

With the V4 settings compiled and shown in the V4 Discussion Thread, we now have a concrete idea of what will be included as far as gametypes and maps, as well as the settings and load outs used. With that being said, it is never too early to look ahead and speculate as to what should and may need to be changed in the transition to V5. Included topics will be anything involving the weapons, weapon placements, power ups, AAs, settings, maps, changes to map layouts, and gametypes that you want to see or think should be included/removed within the next iteration. Please try your best to have good reasoning and well thought out discussion points to back what you say, and be respectful of others posts (obviously).

 

Personally I have a few off the top of my head that I'd like to get out there:

  • I know that adrift isn't exactly the fan favorite, but if we keep it (which we should, considering it's on disc) I would like to see a weapon placement change involved an OS on top mid, while rockets are put on blue corner, replacing one of the sniper rifles. This way, we have a more malleable choice to make in the beginning of the match, as well as options and scenarios that the flag carrier can play with. Also, taking one power weapon out of the equation will help with the congestion of the hallways, thus helping map movement. I'd really like to see this at least tested out, just to see how it plays.

IMO Adrift needs to go with a replacement of a sliced version of Monolith, especially if we decide to use No Sprint. Rockets should also replace incin cannon on that map if it replaced it.

  • No sprint, increase Base movement up to 110%. Sprint is a detriment and a crutch, and why it was even put into this game after it was taken out of Reach due to it's unpopularity baffles me. It makes map design drab and boring, devalues map control and power positions, lower the effectiveness of call outs, allows mistakes to go unpunished, and causes more CQC than needed.

I agree with no sprint, but I do hope you know base movement in TTD is already at 110%. Speed would have to be bumped up to 120% or 125% with no Sprint TBH.

  • If we do go with NS settings, scale the maps down to a suitable size for jumps and routes to still be accessible even without sprint.

Agreed

  • Consider Damage Boost as an offensive power up to be controlled on at least one map. DB is plenty capable for utilization as a map placed power up to be controlled for offensive strategy. It only lasts 30 seconds, meaning it must be used quickly, thus disrupting stand offs and speeding up gameplay; It would be a perfectly viable opposite to OS, allowing for a team that is down to turn the tables through a perfectly balanced and fair scenario; it would open up the games sandbox more than we already have; and it would give plenty of help to the metagame, giving many new and exciting strategies to be devised and executed.

Eh, I disagree, I'd rather be pushing for Quinn to give us a camo powerup back or even a custom powerup instead.

  • Consider a new map remake. When I say new, I mean something that we haven't seen remade for tournament play. I, personally, would love to see Cold Storage or Construct be remade for this game. Both play extremely well and have proven their competitive nature through trial and error. I understand people have a thing against remade maps, but they don't make a new NASCAR track ever year for a reason. Muscle memory makes for exciting plays and strategies.

Please be respectful and constructive to others when posting.

GO!

  

 

Compiled list of requests and concerns:

 

  • Consider replacing Dispatch with a more complex map (Ender has been mentioned)
  • Change OS to 90 second timer rather than current 120 second
  • Evaluate Adrift power placements
  • Consider changing weapon spawns on Dispatch to 2 PW, 1 PU instead of 3 PW, 1 PU.
  • Consider inclusion of DB/SB in replacement of PW
  • implement NS settings/gametypes/maps if possible
  • Switching from a dynamic spawn system to a static spawn system

 

Bolded answers

 

 

Whiz, on 04 Jun 2013 - 1:54 PM, said:

Scattershots need to be erased from every map ever in Halo 4 in my opinion. It's frustratingly inconsistent and I don't think it has a place in competitive play. Shotguns might work on some maps, but when in doubt they should just be removed.

 

On Abandon I would rather see the weapon layout as it is in Team Doubles + overshield at tree, shotgun seems pretty unnecesarry to me. I'm one of the few proponents of having sniper at beach, but I like it because it puts you in a position where you are in danger of being team shot from ring 3, and you have to move to a better position before you can effectively use it. That's why I like it there a lot better than at top gold. Railgun bottom gold is good because it can be dangerous to drop down and get it but it's also a great way to counter ring 3 setups.

 

 

Eh, I disagree with the scattershot, It's only inconsistent online. On LAN it fucking destroys every time. More consistent than the railgun currently, even on LAN I've had people eat the rail with no damage done to them.

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Remove Dispatch and add Opus King, am I the only one that enjoys the living crap out of it? It feels so similar to construct IMO. Althought I will agree it may be an issue in competitive play because of fairly easy to read spawn systems. However if those were altered, such a fun map to watch IMO.

 

This is totally my opinion as well, some people will hate it.

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Updated the list of requests as I've seen.
I'll reply to a few things later on after I wake up, but I'm glad we go this thing rolling.

 

Carry on.

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