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V5 Ideas, requests, and Concerns

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As far as that idea for a KoTH gametype, we would probably need to set time to win somewhere around 500 points or so to ensure that the game lasts longer than 5 minutes. I mean if the time has the possibility of moving at 4x the regular speed than we would have games being a landslide and being over in 3 or 4 minutes with the current set.

 

The glitch stops once a players leaves the hill. Its a tiny glitch which shouldnt force the gametype to be taken out. It does nothing.

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DMR loadout

remove dispatch, adrift and station 9

more powerups (camo AA on maps & dmg boost)

Faster weapon timers. We don't need a 3 min. Rail gun when the rifles kill faster in this game.

Bring back KoTH. The glitch is a minor issue

Use a modified version of Landfall

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Why have a DMR loadout?

 

Because with the reduced range it is once again still the best utility rifle in the game and the BR is even more random now (not sure how that happened). Why not have both? Why not start us with both? Also, I have a question...why did ppl claim that because of the DMR's fast kill time that teamwork was reduced but welcome the BR with a fast kill time with open arms?

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Because with the reduced range it is once again still the best utility rifle in the game and the BR is even more random now (not sure how that happened). Why not have both? Why not start us with both? Also, I have a question...why did ppl claim that because of the DMR's fast kill time that teamwork was reduced but welcome the BR with a fast kill time with open arms?

IMO we just need 1 rifle for Throwdown. I don't really care if it's the BR or the DMR but I am a strong believer of everyone starting on equal footing and the victor is the player who has the better shot, not what rifle they picked.

This is why loadouts and AA's killed Halo.

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Because with the reduced range it is once again still the best utility rifle in the game and the BR is even more random now (not sure how that happened). Why not have both? Why not start us with both? Also, I have a question...why did ppl claim that because of the DMR's fast kill time that teamwork was reduced but welcome the BR with a fast kill time with open arms?

The argument was never that the CMR killed too quickly, it was the fact it killed too quickly for the sandbox. The other utility rifles weren't able to be utilized the way they should because none of them came close to competing to the DMR.

 

Now, at this point, I wouldn't be completely against using the DMR as a starting load out weapon. The only thing I still don't like about it is the ability to spam shots and have magnetism take over every one, keeping it as the easiest rifle to use in the game. Of course that's my opinion, but it's shared by a large portion of the competitive community, as is the opinion that the BR should be used as the starting weapon.

 

In fact, I wouldn't hate it if the Carbine was the starter either. That gun has the highest skill gap of any precision rifle in our sandbox and kills mighty quick at this point. But again, the awkward feel of it just doesn't make it as accessible as the BR or DMR, and that's a large part of why it isn't used.

 

The argument about load outs has already been made in this thread and a thousand others. It shouldn't and won't be an option.

 

Nice to see you made it over from THC, Akedemik. Now let's move forward and not dwell on the same issues that have been argued for the last 6 months, shall we?

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IMO we just need 1 rifle for Throwdown. I don't really care if it's the BR or the DMR but I am a strong believer of everyone starting on equal footing and the victor is the player who has the better shot, not what rifle they picked.

This is why loadouts and AA's killed Halo.

 

have one loadout with both rifles as secondary and primary.

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The argument was never that the CMR killed too quickly, it was the fact it killed too quickly for the sandbox. The other utility rifles weren't able to be utilized the way they should because none of them came close to competing to the DMR.

 

Now, at this point, I wouldn't be completely against using the DMR as a starting load out weapon. The only thing I still don't like about it is the ability to spam shots and have magnetism take over every one, keeping it as the easiest rifle to use in the game. Of course that's my opinion, but it's shared by a large portion of the competitive community, as is the opinion that the BR should be used as the starting weapon.

 

In fact, I wouldn't hate it if the Carbine was the starter either. That gun has the highest skill gap of any precision rifle in our sandbox and kills mighty quick at this point. But again, the awkward feel of it just doesn't make it as accessible as the BR or DMR, and that's a large part of why it isn't used.

 

The argument about load outs has already been made in this thread and a thousand others. It shouldn't and won't be an option.

 

Nice to see you made it over from THC, Akedemik. Now let's move forward and not dwell on the same issues that have been argued for the last 6 months, shall we?

 

I hate being crippled with the BR. I'm going to always have something to say about it. The BR seems even more random after the update, the pretty 4sk isn't hiding that from me.

 

All the rifles are easy to use..they all have the same magnetism, the only difference is that some rifles hit players further than others...nothing is wrong with that. The Carbine is great, I like it..but isn't it sad that it probably wont get a chance at being a starting rifle because of bias? does that not bother you about the competitive merit of these settings?

 

I honestly don't want multiple rifles in loadout..I want one. The one that works best in all scenarios, like what a utility rifle is suppose to do.

 

If we don't speak about the issues with the settings we play we will never get them fixed. I was never the "oh well...i'll just deal with it" type, sorry.

 

 

Why not BR/Carbine?

 

Or the better choice...DMR/Carbine?

 

The carbine works great at close range with it's ROF and reduced spread, so kills are quick and consistent. You wont ever feel cheated or fucked over with it. The DMR can be useful for all other ranges.

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There's no reason to have a secondary if you have the DMR. The BR and Carbine have a very nice balance against each other. The Carbine takes more skill to use effectively up close than the DMR. The Carbine doesn't have a 3x scope so aiming at range takes more skill than the DMR.

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I hate being crippled with the BR. I'm going to always have something to say about it. The BR seems even more random after the update, the pretty 4sk isn't hiding that from me.

 

All the rifles are easy to use..they all have the same magnetism, the only difference is that some rifles hit players further than others...nothing is wrong with that. The Carbine is great, I like it..but isn't it sad that it probably wont get a chance at being a starting rifle because of bias? does that not bother you about the competitive merit of these settings?

 

I honestly don't want multiple rifles in loadout..I want one. The one that works best in all scenarios, like what a utility rifle is suppose to do.

 

If we don't speak about the issues with the settings we play we will never get them fixed. I was never the "oh well...i'll just deal with it" type, sorry.

 

 

 

Or the better choice...DMR/Carbine?

 

The carbine works great at close range with it's ROF and reduced spread, so kills are quick and consistent. You wont ever feel cheated or fucked over with it. The DMR can be useful for all other ranges.

 

I really don't want to have this conversation about starting rifles and have you bash the BR for another hundred pages. It's not constructive and it provides nothing but angst to the conversation.

 

We start out with 1 rifle for the sake of balance. It isn't a conversation about choice. It isn't a conversation about strategy. It is a conversation solely based on the idea of balance and how load outs are detrimental and will always skew the battle one way or another, taking away from a skill based victory.

 

If you can convince me otherwise in terms of starting weapons, and give good points instead of "the BR sucks", I'll listen and converse. Otherwise, please stick to topics that will benefit the thread.

 

Thanks.

 

OT: Yes, it does bother me that the Carbine will never be a starting weapon due to Bias. It bothers me a lot, actually. But it's not because I want the Carbine as our starting rifle, it's because of the bias involved. The gun is fantastic and takes a hell of a lot of skill to wield effectively, and the only reason it isn't considered is because "It feels weird". But, I too am bias in the idea that the BR has proven it's merit through multiple iterations of the game. Once professional NASCAR drivers get used to driving a monte carlo at 200 miles per hour is it really fair to switch to an Audi because it's harder to drive?

 

that example was completely backwards, but you get the point.

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Why not have multiple gametypes in throwdown with different starts? Team Slayer BRs on Haven, Carbines on Haven, DMRs etc

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Wants legit reasoning besides 'BR sux'

 

I'm going to copy-pasta something I said in the past for your viewing pleasure.

 

 

But let's move on from that particular subject. Loadouts introduce a dynamic BR starts doesn't have at all. Let's go over the basics of sandbox for a second to preface this dynamic. A player can only hold two weapons at one time. There are three ranges of combat in game, and three classes of spawning weapons for these ranges. Automatic weapons are close range, BR and Carbine are mid, and DMR and LightRifle are long range. A player will always have one range/niche of combat they're vulnerable to with the loadout they pick. They'll come to expect that (if the other team is smart), they'll find the proper weapons being used for their proper ranges. A player with a BR and DMR should know not to find himself in CQC situations lest he over extend himself and then be punished. So on and so forth. With one weapon starts, while players can indeed pick up various weapons scattered on the map, the dynamic of niches and ranges is certainly downplayed. If it's not as big as factor, there's less emphasis on that factor. It's a factor and consideration that's part of the gameplay skill that's downplayed, and any skill that's being downplayed is bad.

But wait, that's not all. Not only do players have to be more conscious about what niche they find themselves in, this skill is also carried over into overall team play as well. I'm going to go off on a limb and say that in coordinated top level play, teams will designates roles for each of the four players, and they'll all have to be aware of what specific team mate is using what for set ups and all that. They'll have to be aware everyone will have their own individual niche they'll be vulnerable to, and this would most likely cause greater emphasis to be placed on player tracking. Namely, enemy tracking. Everyone would need to watch each other's back because an enemy team will do their best to seize opportunity and engage in a niche that their opponent is vulnerable to. In laymen's terms, this skill is about making sure an Assault Rifle user doesn't rush your DMR guy. Those two weapon names can be interchanged for any weapon name.

 

 

 

The only way loadouts skew an engagement between players is if a player is working outside the niches they're equipped for. There no factor of uncertainty or unpredictability with this, CQC guys WILL use automatics, mid range guys WILL use BR and Carbine, long range guys WILL use DMR and LR. If they're smart, anyway. If they don't, it's actually not a problem to gameplay, as they're now easy targets and will get dumped on. It wouldn't have been this way before the sandbox balancing, due to the DMR being too strong and automatics being too weak and so on and so forth, but NOW it will be the way I've described. At least on paper and in theory. (god knows i can never get enough people for a 4v4 test lobby)

 

 

So with the whole fiasco over uncertainty and unpredictability out of the way, only good things can come of loadouts. Due to vulnerability to at least one niche of combat if not two, further emphasis of map control and positioning is introduced.

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I'm going to copy-pasta something I said in the past for your viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

 

The only way loadouts skew an engagement between players is if a player is working outside the niches they're equipped for. There no factor of uncertainty or unpredictability with this, CQC guys WILL use automatics, mid range guys WILL use BR and Carbine, long range guys WILL use DMR and LR. If they're smart, anyway. If they don't, it's actually not a problem to gameplay, as they're now easy targets and will get dumped on. It wouldn't have been this way before the sandbox balancing, due to the DMR being too strong and automatics being too weak and so on and so forth, but NOW it will be the way I've described. At least on paper and in theory. (god knows i can never get enough people for a 4v4 test lobby)

 

 

So with the whole fiasco over uncertainty and unpredictability out of the way, only good things can come of loadouts. Due to vulnerability to at least one niche of combat if not two, further emphasis of map control and positioning is introduced.

 

This.

 

We asked 343 to balance all the rifles and ppl stil don't want to entertain the idea of multiple loadouts. It's like ppl got their 4sk BR now and don't care for anything else. Look at Team Doubles, it's one of the best playlists in the game and there is zero issues with loadouts. People love the playlist because of the choices we have. The concept of loadouts work, period. 

 

No one is stopping the 4sk BR guys from using what they want...I welcome it, but give me the choice to use my own rifle...the one i enjoy playing with. This isn't rocket science nor does it break the game.

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I'm going to copy-pasta something I said in the past for your viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

 

The only way loadouts skew an engagement between players is if a player is working outside the niches they're equipped for. There no factor of uncertainty or unpredictability with this, CQC guys WILL use automatics, mid range guys WILL use BR and Carbine, long range guys WILL use DMR and LR. If they're smart, anyway. If they don't, it's actually not a problem to gameplay, as they're now easy targets and will get dumped on. It wouldn't have been this way before the sandbox balancing, due to the DMR being too strong and automatics being too weak and so on and so forth, but NOW it will be the way I've described. At least on paper and in theory. (god knows i can never get enough people for a 4v4 test lobby)

 

 

So with the whole fiasco over uncertainty and unpredictability out of the way, only good things can come of loadouts. Due to vulnerability to at least one niche of combat if not two, further emphasis of map control and positioning is introduced.

 

I understand and have thought about all of that. I get that we have niche weapons and I get that it would develop interesting strategies and roles that would be easily defined with each player on a team. I know that players like the idea of "choice" and I know that people have this idea that keeping such choice will lead to more popularity within all crowds. I understand and acknowledge that when people are using a weapon outside of it's niche against a person that is utilizing the sandbox for what it should be used as, that they deserve to get melted and hope that they learn their lesson next time.

 

But the idea of niches is yet another reason why I don't think we should have every weapon as a start. We need to fight for our advantages, and start on equal footing. We need to go out, secure the niche weapons, and punish those who were not smart/able enough to secure them in the first place. We need to have the knowledge of what weapon works well in what situation and place them accordingly within the map to give players the idea of strategy that exists within the niches of the sandbox, without handing them an advantage over someone else's "choice". you will find each and every precision rifle within the sandbox on each map as it stands now. You will be able to utilize them and take full advantage of their niche roles as it stands right now. There is no reason to give players the "choice" of having them off start because all that does is hand players another controlling aspect of the game. It takes no skill for a user to choose a load out with a LR and have him sit back on base on simplex, but it takes strategy and personal skill to win a battle with someone over a LR on map to secure such a niche weapon. It takes no skill to have someone choose the DMR load out on Haven and sit on open ramp, allowing him to melt people across map and secure closed and open from one spot, where as if he were to find and secure the weapon he is now utilizing the sandbox for what he has been given and playing a strategy that will secure nearly half the map for his team. And the beauty of all of this lies in the fact that you will find these rifles scattered about the map to be controlled as the semi PW that they are. Because that's what they should be. They should be fought over and controlled for the exact purpose that you have given, and the exact purpose that they have had in previous iterations of the game before load outs were introduced. they should be controlled and utilized, and those that refuse to do so should be punished for having a one track mind.

 

You say that load outs have no bad aspects on the game, and allow player "choice". There is no choice here. The best rifle will win in it's intended niche and therefore if you choose the wrong weapon, you are now wrong. If you choose to use the BR and get destroyed all game by someone with a DMR, you made the wrong choice People who want load outs always through around the word choice like it's something load outs provide, but it's only choice for yourself, and puts you at a disadvantage in every situation but one. It gives an illusion and an excuse not to move about the map to secure what you need. They never should have been introduced to arena style gameplay. Ever. It has forever tainted the way people think about this game.

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This.

 

We asked 343 to balance all the rifles and ppl stil don't want to entertain the idea of multiple loadouts. It's like ppl got their 4sk BR now and don't care for anything else. Look at Team Doubles, it's one of the best playlists in the game and there is zero issues with loadouts. People love the playlist because of the choices we have. The concept of loadouts work, period. 

 

No one is stopping the 4sk BR guys from using what they want...I welcome it, but give me the choice to use my own rifle...the one i enjoy playing with. This isn't rocket science nor does it break the game.

Some people might love doubes for the choice, and some people may love infinity for the chaos. That does not, however, mean that every loves each of those for the same reasons as you or others do. I love doubles because it is an intimate take on a competitive playlist that involves, arguably, more strategy and teamwork than any other playlist available. I hate it because of the fact that I might get infinity doubles and have to deal with Halo 4 at it's worst. The load out's have never really bothered me for the fact that I'm good enough to win regardless of niche roles because I'm smart. But I'm sure others hate the playlist for that exact reason.

 

please don't bunch players into one idea. You love one thing, others hate it.

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personally, the days of one-weapon for all starts should be done.

 

loadouts like the td playlist add more diversity to the game and gives players chances to play different roles, making up for halo 4's low skill ceiling

 

for me the new lightrifle should be used, unity settings with 4sk descoped

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PRESET weapon loadouts dont ruin the game, and wont ruin it come halo 5 (hopefully no spriint + descope)

 

other bullshit aa's, upgrades ruin it, they shouldnt put that shit in, theyre trying to make it more like an rta than a tactical shooter

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Some people might love doubes for the choice, and some people may love infinity for the chaos. That does not, however, mean that every loves each of those for the same reasons as you or others do. I love doubles because it is an intimate take on a competitive playlist that involves, arguably, more strategy and teamwork than any other playlist available. I hate it because of the fact that I might get infinity doubles and have to deal with Halo 4 at it's worst. The load out's have never really bothered me for the fact that I'm good enough to win regardless of niche roles because I'm smart. But I'm sure others hate the playlist for that exact reason.

 

please don't bunch players into one idea. You love one thing, others hate it.

 

 

Cool. I understand all of that...but quick question... how does starting me with a DMR/Carbin/LightRifle bothers someone with this new BR or vice versa? it doesn't in doubles and i have played semis and pros in the playlist. It doesn't in slayer pro variants in infinity slayer...but for some reason it doesn't work in throwdown? yea right. It's all politics and bias why we don't have multiple loadouts. I have seen tourneys ran by Gold Pro and Unity with multiple loadouts played by Good players (players that attend events) and there were no issues...but it still doesn't work in throwdown and agl? riiiight. 

 

Throwdown settings are mediocre and need a face lift to take competitive halo 4 to the next level. We can do much much better than this.

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While I'm content with v4, my main gripe is that there are 5 gametypes that serve a similar role. Skyline TS, Skyline CTF, Simplex TS, Simplex CTF, and Onyx TS are all fast paced arena maps with mostly only BR gameplay. We don't need 5 gametypes of that. In my opinion, Skyline needs to stay for split screen purposes so that's a given. However, I believe Simplex should be removed entirely and Onyx CTF should be added. That leaves room for 1 more Slayer map but I haven't played enough forge maps to determine what map that should be.

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There's no reason to have a secondary if you have the DMR. The BR and Carbine have a very nice balance against each other. The Carbine takes more skill to use effectively up close than the DMR. The Carbine doesn't have a 3x scope so aiming at range takes more skill than the DMR.

 

This does not reflect the current state of the rifle balance. Every single rifle is better than the DMR within their niche to such a point that players actively challenge those fights much in the same way that the DMR did before the update. The difference between the rifles is noticeable in so far as it creates range preferences but none of these are not overcome-able through player action.

 

 

The best rifle will win in it's intended niche and therefore if you choose the wrong weapon, you are now wrong. If you choose to use the BR and get destroyed all game by someone with a DMR, you made the wrong choice People who want load outs always through around the word choice like it's something load outs provide, but it's only choice for yourself, and puts you at a disadvantage in every situation but one. It gives an illusion and an excuse not to move about the map to secure what you need. They never should have been introduced to arena style gameplay. Ever. It has forever tainted the way people think about this game.

 

Again this doesn't reflect how the game actually plays out with the current balance;

  1. Human error ensures players beat out other players even within their niche, this happens in every game single game even before the TU.
  2. Weapons aren't powerful enough against the starting option to be fought over. No one is going to stop or challenge you for a different primary. forcing players to traverse the map for their choice is merely an inconvenience for the illusion of structure i.e. it is just as random as being given the choice of primary.

 

Why not have multiple gametypes in throwdown with different starts? Team Slayer BRs on Haven, Carbines on Haven, DMRs etc

 

It just simply wouldn't be accepted. Giving people the choice, these types of decisions would form naturally anyway.

 

See Viral's post above.

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simplex v4 ctf is good, plays extremely well w/no sprint

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PRESET weapon loadouts dont ruin the game, and wont ruin it come halo 5 (hopefully no spriint + descope)

 

other bullshit aa's, upgrades ruin it, they shouldnt put that shit in, theyre trying to make it more like an rta than a tactical shooter

Exactly. I'm glad the SMG starts from H2 and the AR starts from H3 are long gone. Loadouts can be great if they were more restricted. Just give us the option of primary (BR, DMR, Carbine, and Light Rifle) and grenades (1 grenade if you choose plasma/2 for frag). No armor abilities, no tactical packages, no plasma pistol. The game would improve greatly.

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Exactly. I'm glad the SMG starts from H2 and the AR starts from H3 are long gone. Loadouts can be great if they were more restricted. Just give us the option of primary (BR, DMR, Carbine, and Light Rifle) and grenades (1 grenade if you choose plasma/2 for frag). No armor abilities, no tactical packages, no plasma pistol. The game would improve greatly.

 

I feel with the current weapon balancing this would work well. Secondary would be the Pistol or no secondary at all.

 

Plasma Pistol on map. Boltshot could also be placed on the map as a semi-powerweapon.

 

It is for sure better than having to put up with AR or SMG starts...

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