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V5 Ideas, requests, and Concerns

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TU broke DB

 

It wouldnt be under the pillar bottom mid, you move it in the direction of closed (say about 10 steps) so its in the open.

 

What are the body shots to kill with DB? Even if it's a little OP it might be worth keeping purely for the structure it would bring in play e.g. replaces Rail on Abandon, creates an incentive towards bottom mid on Haven e.t.c

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Previous to the weapon update, yes, it did.

 

However when it comes to niche rolls with weapon balance, the current weapon balance is something that makes Halo be in an overall good spot. The BR, DMR, Carbine, and LR all have their very niche rolls for what they are supposed to do, and compared to launch settings, they are very balanced.

 

The dominance from short range to long range is now properly AR > Carbine > BR > DMR > LightRifle. That's how it was supposed to be at launch, but unfortunately it was not as that.

 

This game is built with multiple starting weapons in mind. Look at how the overall game is developed. We have far more options for weapons than we've ever had before. It's no longer either a BR or a Carbine or a DMR and a Needle Rifle. We have four precision weapons, three automatic weapons, and the amount of different power weapons we have now is greater than any previous Halo either.

 

With how these rifles are balanced, in terms of killtimes, why shouldn't they be all options to start with? It could easily open up new playstyles for teams, such as having a player start with a DMR, 2 BRs, and one person using another DMR, or a LR, or whatever their playtstyle fits. This opens new strategies, new set ups, and overall increases the skill cap because of how much team skill it could harbor. 

 

But opening up strategies is not a justifiable reason to give up harmonic balance off start. The entire point of choosing one load out weapon was to make it so everyone started on the same footing, and no one had any advantage over any other player in the game, until they earned it. And that's how it should stay. Multiple load outs are fine for games that have kill times all within a hundredth of a second of each other, and are well under half a second, because the difference is almost unnoticeable. This game, however, will always have a balance shift between weapons. On top of that, the only good arguments for multiple load outs is to give the player choice. But this "choice" is nothing but illusion, do to the fact that there will always be a weapon or weapons or combination of weapons that will overpower the others, and therefore you won't have a choice to use them if you want to win.

 

We are not changing to a multiple load out system for the sake of balance and fair gameplay that enables the best player, not the best weapons, with a victory.

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But opening up strategies is not a justifiable reason to give up harmonic balance off start. The entire point of choosing one load out weapon was to make it so everyone started on the same footing, and no one had any advantage over any other player in the game, until they earned it. And that's how it should stay. Multiple load outs are fine for games that have kill times all within a hundredth of a second of each other, and are well under half a second, because the difference is almost unnoticeable. This game, however, will always have a balance shift between weapons. On top of that, the only good arguments for multiple load outs is to give the player choice. But this "choice" is nothing but illusion, do to the fact that there will always be a weapon or weapons or combination of weapons that will overpower the others, and therefore you won't have a choice to use them if you want to win.

 

We are not changing to a multiple load out system for the sake of balance and fair gameplay that enables the best player, not the best weapons, with a victory.

 

See, in Pre Weapon Update game modes, you started with the worst weapon and could pick up better weapons on the map. Now that we have four balanced precision weapons, what are the reasons we shouldn't?

 

Also, how are the weapons majorly unbalanced now? I would greatly appreciate your opinion on how the weapons are unbalanced at the moment. 

 

In CoD, weapon choice matter far more than you think. The difference between killtimes is just as big as Halo differences in killtimes, even if all of the guns kill infinitely faster than any weapon in Halo.

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The worse weapon now is either the LR or DMR, we should start with them. BR is now a power weapon.

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What are the body shots to kill with DB? Even if it's a little OP it might be worth keeping purely for the structure it would bring in play e.g. replaces Rail on Abandon, creates an incentive towards bottom mid on Haven e.t.c

Probably 4 with the BR. 

 

DB didnt get a chance before, and it probably wont now. Im taking it off the Unity Dubs maps, and probably 4s too.

 

Im going to look into increased health/95% damage to see if it can keep it viable.

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has anyone played around with the damage settings post update to see the effect? some way to make BR more body shots yet a 4sk etc.

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has anyone played around with the damage settings post update to see the effect? some way to make BR more body shots yet a 4sk etc.

For the Br, you need 1.4 health, something only achieved through modding, otherwise it just fucks up with the sandbox I think.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiTLWcMR2S6gdDFmQmpsaDN3RHRkYzlQT25qRWNuSnc#gid=0

 

Thats how to get different damage settings

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Don't increase health too much or it makes finishing kills who are running away take too long.

 

If it was me I would prob drop the damage boost percentage down so the BR is a 3sk on DB. Then I would add a movement speed increase to compensate for the lower damage boost.

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My suggestions:

  • Make OS not spawn off the start of the game (simplex/dispatch/etc)
  • Add damage boost on some map, somewhere (maybe to replace station 9 rockets?)
  • onyx ctf over simplex ctf
  • dispatch shouldn't be in the settings ever
  • keep OS on a 120 timer
  • if you use a remade map, use a construct remake that is 99.9% accurate (DON'T SCALE IT FOR SPRINT)
  • remove sprint
  • Use my map  :ghost: 

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See, in Pre Weapon Update game modes, you started with the worst weapon and could pick up better weapons on the map. Now that we have four balanced precision weapons, what are the reasons we shouldn't?

 

Also, how are the weapons majorly unbalanced now? I would greatly appreciate your opinion on how the weapons are unbalanced at the moment. 

 

In CoD, weapon choice matter far more than you think. The difference between killtimes is just as big as Halo differences in killtimes, even if all of the guns kill infinitely faster than any weapon in Halo.

 

I just gave you the most important reason of the bunch, and that is balance. I could give you a thousand statistics and comparisons and all that, but there is no need. Halo has never been about choice of weapon, it is about 2 players having equal footing and the better player wins. That gets thrown out the window with multiple weapon spawns. You said it yourself they all fit a niche, therefore unbalancing the playing field if anyone chooses a weapon that will cause detriment to the team.  

 

That's all that needs to be said. This should never have become a game with load outs, and now that we have gone back to the way it should have always been, there is no reason to back track.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

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I have been trying to get different maps for throwdown and I have been trying to get community support for http://teambeyond.net/forum/index.php?/topic/162-edifice-v4/. I feel Edifice is at the right stage now and would like to see how players play it.

Edifice is my favorite Forge map in all of Halo 4, and I've been playing it since you released it... but I feel that it does not fit the competitive style of gameplay that Throwdown requires.

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Make OS not spawn off the start of the game (simplex/dispatch/etc)

 

 

Please don't repost other's suggestions.

 

although I completely agree with this. Because it really is just who pulls host gets the OS, and that is just wrong in every way. It shouldn't be too hard to make this happen, really. Does anyone know the weapon spawning system in depth enough to shed some light on this idea?

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The worse weapon now is either the LR or DMR, we should start with them. BR is now a power weapon.

 

The BR is not a power weapon. It kills slightly faster than the DMR, and slightly slower than the Carbine. it get's beat hard at range by both the DMR and the LR, and still suffers from an uncontrollable spread, which means a 4sk is still not a thing seen often. It's not underpowered anymore, and it certainly isn't a power weapon. It's exactly where it should be.

 

However, you're right. The DMR, by all technical terms, is the weakest loadout rifle available. It has the slowest kill time behind the LR (even though most that use and prefer the LR will use the 1+3 method to achieve 1.33 KT), it has a lesser range than before, and it now has a 2.5 kill to clip ratio, where as the BR has a 3 Kill per clip ratio. All things considered, it might be slightly better than the carbine because of range and clip size, but the carbine takes more skill and beats it at most relevant ranges.

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Good stuff so far. Got a pretty good list going on up there!

 

Now, I want to shift focus a little bit to PODs.

Let's for the moment assume that the PODs will stay and we will have to get used to it. I really want to find a better combination of the 3 to really make them important and desirable. As they stand, I never care to call it in. Ever. It's just an annoying bug on my screen that get's used when I switch grenades. But I feel if maybe we were able to make the point threshold higher, we could give more desirable drops. I wish there were a way to make it so that your points restarted when you died and it became a legitimate earned PW/PU that way it could be a more lethal drop.

 

So does anyone have any good, healthy combinations that could be tested over what we have already? That, or ideas about combinations of weapons, PW, ammo, etc.? I really want to see what we can come up with here, because the current iteration is near useless.

 

Please remember that Sprint is NOT A GIVEN. So remember to give options that appease both sprint settings and NS settings alike.

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I feel like the best items for PODs are "grab and go" items that you can utilize for immediate gain. I never though AAs worked that well because the reward is not really worth it. You end up dying before you can effectively use them and they don't make a big enough impact to warrant calling it in and stopping to pick it up. What if one power up was designated as the POD power up? The other two would be placed on maps, like power weapons, as always. The third power up would be a "semi power up". Rockets are a power weapon. The Concussion Rifle is a semi power weapon. Two of the power ups are true power ups. The third is a semi power up.

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Edifice is my favorite Forge map in all of Halo 4, and I've been playing it since you released it... but I feel that it does not fit the competitive style of gameplay that Throwdown requires.

Something I can agree with on the earlier versions, the latest version however is a different story. That comes down to a matter of understanding the map on the competitive level, watch http://www.twitch.tv/JuniorLives and observe how the map plays at 9 pm EST. I think gain insight first hand is very important before implying whether or not a map is hyper competitive.

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I feel like the best items for PODs are "grab and go" items that you can utilize for immediate gain. I never though AAs worked that well because the reward is not really worth it. You end up dying before you can effectively use them and they don't make a big enough impact to warrant calling it in and stopping to pick it up. What if one power up was designated as the POD power up? The other two would be placed on maps, like power weapons, as always. The third power up would be a "semi power up". Rockets are a power weapon. The Concussion Rifle is a semi power weapon. Two of the power ups are true power ups. The third is a semi power up.

I'm with you in the tought that the current PODs don't feel easy to utilize. I think that if we could make it so that on choice was a semi power weapon with no extra clip, one was an AA that was actually useful like ProVision or Camo or something, and one that was either a boltshot or a plasma pistol. (probably leaning more towards PP), then it might work. Maybe.

 

Actually, the only one that I would really think would disrupt gameplay a lot would be the power weapon idea. I actually really like the idea of camo being earned, and the Plasma pistol is far from overpowered but certainly under utilized.

 

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  • Make fixing KoTH/Oddball for competitive settings a priority for MM team, so they can be utilized in rotation

 

 

This might sound like a silly question, but what needs to be fixed in each of those?

 

(I've been out of the competitive loop for like 2 years. It's only Snipedown/Pistola's streams that have gained my interest as of recently)

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Please don't repost other's suggestions.

 

although I completely agree with this. Because it really is just who pulls host gets the OS, and that is just wrong in every way. It shouldn't be too hard to make this happen, really. Does anyone know the weapon spawning system in depth enough to shed some light on this idea?

I am very familiar with the weapon system. 

 

The only way to delay map ordnances from spawning at the beginning is to make them static weapons (Railguns and Rockets).

 

Currently Railgun on Abandon for example does not spawn at start but will then spawn 3 minutes into the game.

 

It would be best to keep Railguns and Rockets on 3 minute timers, they are the strongest power weapons... so a delayed OS on Simplex would be impossible, and OS on Onyx and Dispatch could work but they would spawn at 3 minute intervals, which would be far too long IMO.

 

 

I can go in-depth of how the system works, but what I said is accurate.

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Good stuff so far. Got a pretty good list going on up there!

 

Now, I want to shift focus a little bit to PODs.

Let's for the moment assume that the PODs will stay and we will have to get used to it. I really want to find a better combination of the 3 to really make them important and desirable. As they stand, I never care to call it in. Ever. It's just an annoying bug on my screen that get's used when I switch grenades. But I feel if maybe we were able to make the point threshold higher, we could give more desirable drops. I wish there were a way to make it so that your points restarted when you died and it became a legitimate earned PW/PU that way it could be a more lethal drop.

 

So does anyone have any good, healthy combinations that could be tested over what we have already? That, or ideas about combinations of weapons, PW, ammo, etc.? I really want to see what we can come up with here, because the current iteration is near useless.

 

Please remember that Sprint is NOT A GIVEN. So remember to give options that appease both sprint settings and NS settings alike.

Yep, just finished Unity V3 with static weapon spawns/a few of the changes in your list on the OP.

 

PODS are awful. If you want them to be good items, you just create more problems.

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Edifice is my favorite Forge map in all of Halo 4, and I've been playing it since you released it... but I feel that it does not fit the competitive style of gameplay that Throwdown requires.

Because its asymmetrical 

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