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Multichem

V5 Ideas, requests, and Concerns

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I agree with the changes to Abandon for the most part. I still don't like Snipe being in gold court, only because it's still extremely accessible to the team controlling a major power position. I almost don't want something spawning there period, but that isn't the right route to go. I just haven't thought of something specifically that could replace it. But, I will say, moving it to gold court would be an improvement to what it is now. at least then it takes a little effort to secure in that spot, rather than just hangin out up top. As far as Rockets on beach, I think Railgun is a better idea. It seems more balanced for the map itself, and can't be abused as much. Then again, rockets would give a better push, which can be necessary with such a position with gold. So I would have to see a lot of testing on it to be sure.  Rail gun just needs to be ditched I feel

 

For Haven, I don't actually think there should be something powerful spawning bottom mid. I mean we look back to Gaurdian, and that map played perfectly without anything (a mauler) spawning bottom mid. It supposed to be used as a flanking point and a way to move about the map that is slightly less obvious than top mid. I would like having DB spawn where railgun has been spawning on bottom bridge, though. I think that would give plenty of incentive to have the control team move from top mid to secure closed, rather than just team shot from the pockets. plus, it would be a great offensive tool to take out a strategy. Guardian did not play well for TS at all, due to a lack of movement incentives, plus, the bottom part of Guardian was one route, whereas bottom Haven is literally half the map.

 

 

I hate Adrift, as do many others. But, With Monolith, we now have something to play with. I've liked monolith since it came out, and thought it needed to be included. I'll have to go check out the unity version and take a look at a few things. I can see how it would be drab without the tower involved, but sometimes simplicity is grand. So I guess we will se what happens with that. But I definitely agree Adrift has to go. Soon. And if not, We need to look at modifying it a lot to change map flow completely.  The tower is smaller, not cut off

 

We certainly need at least 2 more asym maps. I think that would give us a pretty good balance between map types. I certainly have a bias towards sym maps, and think there should be more of those than asym, but I love the strats that come from asym so I can agree there needs to be more.

 

Maybe we could change timers from 2 and 3 minutes to 1.5 and 2.5? I don't think we should go lower than that. PW and PU are good to give map movement and create situations that people must control and think about, I agree with you there. But we can't have things spawn too fast simply for the thought of having 5 or 6 PW/PU up at any given time. It would get too hectic. I know that H1 had things spawn on 1 minute timers and I haven't forgotten that. I'm just a big believer in rifle battles and having that be the main factor instead of how many powers you can get and hold. Plus, then we run into situations where the team that misses the first 2 spawns is done for. There's no way to get back up from a team that has a rocket and two snipes the entire game. I said make them a tad smaller. There will never be 5 items on the go at once.

 

What gametypes would you suggest? Memento Hill, Unity landfall, Ender, Monolith maybe

 

 

What do you have against the Railgun? I think it's the most balanced explosive PW that we have in the sandbox, and it can be utilized while still giving the other team a chance to fight back.

 

I wouldn't say it played terribly for TS, although it did get camptastic. Although, realistically, every map has a good possibility of producing standoffs in TS. But yeah, I agree, it played considerably better for Oddball. Anyway, I don't think we will ever find a way to use the bottom of Haven for anything but flanking and alternate routes. Putting a PW/PU anywhere but where Railgun had spawned on bottom bridge will encourage teams to camp for the next spawn, due to lack of flanking and lines of vision towards middle areas. I understand you want to see more map movement and utilize the entire map, but I wouldn't want to see us create boring and cheap situations just for the excuse of incentive.

 

I had asked for Gametypes to add to the gauntlet, not Maps.

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Some things I think should happen.

 

  • Remove ordinances. Normal weapon spawns with no pods work fine
  • Sprint should be removed.
  • Re-make maps already in or add in new maps to work with no sprint.
  • Remove scattershots on every map like munoz said, the gun is awful. I would rather be shotgunned down.
  • Personal ordinances could stay unless with no sprint thruster is game breaking.

I'll add more to this list as time goes by. Its 8 am and I'm tired

Ordnance was added for the purpose of keeping the game close to default settings, to keep from alienating new players to the gametypes. Believe me, I don't like them either. I think they are wasted and hardly ever used, and generally the only reason I even call them in is because I was trying to switch grenades and do it on accident (I almost always have hardlight). But regardless, I think they should stay in for the sole purpose of keeping things "familiar". If it comes down to us not needing them anymore, however, I'm more than okay with removing them. I've never liked AAs, and never will.

 

I can't think of any times in the game where thruster could become game breaking, sprint or not. It isn't as powerful as evade from Reach, and can only really be used as an escape method unless you get tricky.

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What do you have against the Railgun? I think it's the most balanced explosive PW that we have in the sandbox, and it can be utilized while still giving the other team a chance to fight back.

 

I wouldn't say it played terribly for TS, although it did get camptastic. Although, realistically, every map has a good possibility of producing standoffs in TS. But yeah, I agree, it played considerably better for Oddball. Anyway, I don't think we will ever find a way to use the bottom of Haven for anything but flanking and alternate routes. Putting a PW/PU anywhere but where Railgun had spawned on bottom bridge will encourage teams to camp for the next spawn, due to lack of flanking and lines of vision towards middle areas. I understand you want to see more map movement and utilize the entire map, but I wouldn't want to see us create boring and cheap situations just for the excuse of incentive.

 

I had asked for Gametypes to add to the gauntlet, not Maps.

Ive been playing with DB bottom mid, and soon to be a zero clip saw. It adds a different encounter to the map, and forces teams to move away from the desirable location of the map. Its basic Halo weapon layout 101. We havent found a way to use it as nothing has been attempted in v1/2/3/4. Only having 2 weapons on 2/3 mins is more boring and campy than having something strong at the bottom. It forces players to make a decision, maintain map position up top, or drop down for a powerful weapon.

 

Rail gun has horrible bullet mag and is massively inconsistent. Ninja would write a fine novel about the bad qualities of a rail gun.

 

I gave you gamtypes

 

Memento Hill, Unity landfall, Ender, Monolith maybe

 

Memento slayer and hill. Ender CTF. Mono CTF only to replace adrift. Landfall slayer/1 plot/hill (presuming it gets fixed)

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Please dont turn him into the next forger who is the only one that can have maps in the competitive game type list (coming from someone as a fan of Salot and Hahka)

I agree with this completely.

 

In order to get a full, healthy list of maps, we need different minds designing them. You can see in all of Salots maps the same influence and creativity that he is known for, same with Hahka. I'm not saying they are bad at what they do, but you will only design to a certain extent of what your creativity will allow. With more forgers, we get more unique maps. I would prefer to say that we have 1 map per forger at any given time for the roster, which is more than possible with the abundance of creative minds in the community.

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One map per forger seems silly and arbitrary. If someone forges the two best maps they should be in. Judge the maps on quality, not who the author is.

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Ive been playing with DB bottom mid, and soon to be a zero clip saw. It adds a different encounter to the map, and forces teams to move away from the desirable location of the map. Its basic Halo weapon layout 101. We havent found a way to use it as nothing has been attempted in v1/2/3/4. Only having 2 weapons on 2/3 mins is more boring and campy than having something strong at the bottom. It forces players to make a decision, maintain map position up top, or drop down for a powerful weapon.

 

Rail gun has horrible bullet mag and is massively inconsistent. Ninja would write a fine novel about the bad qualities of a rail gun.

 

I gave you gamtypes

 

Memento Hill, Unity landfall, Ender, Monolith maybe

 

Memento slayer and hill. Ender CTF. Mono CTF only to replace adrift. Landfall slayer/1 plot/hill (presuming it gets fixed)

Let us know how that SAW works out. I've been eager to hear how it works in competitive play after the update.

I know where you're coming from, but I have my doubts on putting something as enclosed as bottom mid on that map. especially if we go with NS settings, securing and retreating with the PW would be a nightmare. The team up top could just watch exits from up top and melt anyone moving back towards the ramps, thus wiping out the team and securing the weapon without giving up control. It's just iffy in my mind. DB might work though, since it's so destructive (borderline OP) at this point.

 

Right, right. My bad on that one.

Just got off work not quite in Halo mode yet.

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Let us know how that SAW works out. I've been eager to hear how it works in competitive play after the update.

I know where you're coming from, but I have my doubts on putting something as enclosed as bottom mid on that map. especially if we go with NS settings, securing and retreating with the PW would be a nightmare. The team up top could just watch exits from up top and melt anyone moving back towards the ramps, thus wiping out the team and securing the weapon without giving up control. It's just iffy in my mind. DB might work though, since it's so destructive (borderline OP) at this point.

 

Right, right. My bad on that one.

Just got off work not quite in Halo mode yet.

TU broke DB

 

It wouldnt be under the pillar bottom mid, you move it in the direction of closed (say about 10 steps) so its in the open.

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My official list of wants:

 

  • Remove Sprint, 120 or 125% soeed (110% Jump to help with jumps)
  • Remove Dispatch
  • Don't immediately remove Adrift, it can work with NS, it is just is slower paced. (3 Flag, no at-home requirement to score)
  • Consider Onyx Flag, Confined, Monolith, LandSmall, and other community maps
  • Removal of Personal Ordnance, AA's on map (Similar to JetPack on Stat 9)
  • Reconsider weapons on map due to weapon tuning (Light Rifle and Automatic Weapon Placements in Specific)
  • Ordnance replacement on Abandon, Adrift, Monolith, Landfall, and Simplex
  • Remove Scattershot, Replace with Boltshot
  • Shrink maps (Simplex for Base-Top Mid Jump, Onyx for Jump up to bases)

Gametypes:

 

Splitscreen (6):

 

Haven Slayer

Abandon Slayer

Skyline Slayer

Skyline Flag (5)

Adrift Flag (3)

Monolith Flag (3)

 

Full Screen (5):

 

Haven EXT (60 Seconds)

Simplex Flag (5)

Onyx TS

Onyx Flag (5)

New Forge Map (EXT)

 

(I have personally assigned Hahkarazy to make the new map)

 

V5 is going to be huge if we have NS.

 

Good list.

 

I really would like to see Hardlight shield placed as a PU on map for extraction gametypes, as well as Regeneration field placed in TS gametypes. I think they could add a nice dynamic to things, as well as eliminate the need for personal ordnance.

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Compiled list of requests and concerns:

 

  • Consider replacing Dispatch with a more complex map (Ender has been mentioned)
  • Change OS to 90 second timer rather than current 120 second
  • Evaluate Adrift power placements

I agree with these.

 

 

  • Consider changing weapon spawns on Dispatch to 2 PW, 1 PU instead of 3 PW, 1 PU.

This is what we have already. Sticky Det left in V3

 

 

  • implement NS settings/gametypes/maps if possible

Sure, with 120% speed

  • Switching from a dynamic spawn system to a static spawn system

This is actually not possible with Ordnance, the way we make static timers is based on random ordnance, and it restricts us to having one static weapon per map (Railguns and Rockets at the moment)

 

I meant to point this out earlier.

 

When I said change the spawn system from Dynamic to Static, I was talking about player spawns, not weapon spawns. I was talking about keeping spawns within the boundaries of color spawns, like they were in Halo 3. So if one team is controlling top mid, the other team will spawn at their own base instead of either base. I've never liked Dynamic spawns ever. They make map control considerably underpowered, and take away the spawn killing tactics that made the game so exciting, and made for some fantastic plays in previous games. Also, it gave need to coordinate a defensive strategy until you took map control.

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I thoroughly agree that we need king of the hill back into the rotation. Badly. We dont have enough gametypes and that is the biggest one, in my mind, that is missing. I know people argue that extraction is a good replacement, but I disagree. I think we need both to have a healthy rotation.

Oddball. Really want this back in, but stupid ball throw  :ninja:

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TU broke DB

 

It wouldnt be under the pillar bottom mid, you move it in the direction of closed (say about 10 steps) so its in the open.

that could work out a little bit better. It would allow for drops from top mid and plenty of room to maneuver in a firefight, as well as give both teams a chance, map control or not, to secure whatever is placed. you said you've been playing with DB even though it's broken, so is it really that OP? I understand it's a 2sk, but that's 2 kills at most in a firefight assuming you are teamshot, and with your shields recharging so slowly, I can't see someone getting more than 6 kills with it in a serious game. And even that's a stretch.

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I meant to point this out earlier.

 

When I said change the spawn system from Dynamic to Static, I was talking about player spawns, not weapon spawns. I was talking about keeping spawns within the boundaries of color spawns, like they were in Halo 3. So if one team is controlling top mid, the other team will spawn at their own base instead of either base. I've never liked Dynamic spawns ever. They make map control considerably underpowered, and take away the spawn killing tactics that made the game so exciting, and made for some fantastic plays in previous games. Also, it gave need to coordinate a defensive strategy until you took map control.

This only works for maps that are 2 base TBH. Like on Abandon/Haven it doesn't really work. 

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Doju doesnt landfall have framerate issues? thats why it was removed from v4 no?

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Doju doesnt landfall have framerate issues? thats why it was removed from v4 no?

Landsmall does. Unity landfall has less pieces and more spread out too (think of it as a U bend). Havent noticed frame rate issues so far.

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Okay, I have rewritten the OP after it killed itself, as well as included the most recent list of viable and logical changes and requests.

 

Keep 'er rollin'.

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This only works for maps that are 2 base TBH. Like on Abandon/Haven it doesn't really work. 

 

I had redone Haven at one point early on with color oriented spawns and it actually worked out really well. Again, Ghost didn't like the idea, but I still think it should be looked at. As it stands it's anyone guess (although it isn't terrible difficult to guess) at where the next spawn will be. Sure, you can still block spawns and such to force them to another position, but that often backfires and they spawn right underneath you. At the very least, we need to adjust the spawns to never spawn a player on the power position of a map (ie. Gold spawn on Abandon, Open ramp on Haven, etc). Power positions should be earned, not spawned into.

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Good list.

 

I really would like to see Hardlight shield placed as a PU on map for extraction gametypes, as well as Regeneration field placed in TS gametypes. I think they could add a nice dynamic to things, as well as eliminate the need for personal ordnance.

This. Hardlight is crazy OP in Extraction gametypes, and Regen can be used well also.

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Please dont turn him into the next forger who is the only one that can have maps in the competitive game type list (coming from someone as a fan of Salot and Hahka)

Let's be honest, when it comes to arena/competitive maps... SaLot knew what he was doing and thats why he was chosen...

 

Hahkarazy, we aren't sure yet. Of course, I was saying what I said very sarcastically, but I believe he could be the one to make more maps for us if we ditch some of SaLot's (Stat 9)

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Let's be honest, when it comes to arena/competitive maps... SaLot knew what he was doing and thats why he was chosen...

 

Hahkarazy, we aren't sure yet. Of course, I was saying what I said very sarcastically, but I believe he could be the one to make more maps for us if we ditch some of SaLot's (Stat 9)

Argh. No no no no

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-Remove Dispatch and Adrift

-Remove Sprint

-Add the 5 Loadouts

-Add Landfall TS/Ext

-Add Monolith Flag/Slayer

 

Those are the first few things that I would definitely do. Flinch and Descope will always be large problems, but there really isn't much that can be done about those. Flinch can be modded out, but descope is pretty much one of the largest issues at the moment, and we'll just have to ride that storm out.

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-Remove Dispatch and Adrift

-Remove Sprint

-Add the 5 Loadouts

-Add Landfall TS/Ext

-Add Monolith Flag/Slayer

 

Those are the first few things that I would definitely do. Flinch and Descope will always be large problems, but there really isn't much that can be done about those. Flinch can be modded out, but descope is pretty much one of the largest issues at the moment, and we'll just have to ride that storm out.

 

As stated before, we must stick with a single load out weapon, therefore we cannot include more load outs. It causes balance issues that cannot be fixed.

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As stated before, we must stick with a single load out weapon, therefore we cannot include more load outs. It causes balance issues that cannot be fixed.

 

Previous to the weapon update, yes, it did.

 

However when it comes to niche rolls with weapon balance, the current weapon balance is something that makes Halo be in an overall good spot. The BR, DMR, Carbine, and LR all have their very niche rolls for what they are supposed to do, and compared to launch settings, they are very balanced.

 

The dominance from short range to long range is now properly AR > Carbine > BR > DMR > LightRifle. That's how it was supposed to be at launch, but unfortunately it was not as that.

 

This game is built with multiple starting weapons in mind. Look at how the overall game is developed. We have far more options for weapons than we've ever had before. It's no longer either a BR or a Carbine or a DMR and a Needle Rifle. We have four precision weapons, three automatic weapons, and the amount of different power weapons we have now is greater than any previous Halo either.

 

With how these rifles are balanced, in terms of killtimes, why shouldn't they be all options to start with? It could easily open up new playstyles for teams, such as having a player start with a DMR, 2 BRs, and one person using another DMR, or a LR, or whatever their playtstyle fits. This opens new strategies, new set ups, and overall increases the skill cap because of how much team skill it could harbor. 

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