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Does sprint and descope belong in halo? Before you guys stop reading and say no to sprint and yes to descope. I like sprint. I know you'll probably say that it is a get out of jail free card but I would disagree. With the 4sk BR how many people do you find getting away. A good 4v4 team rarely lets someone get away because of callouts. In FFA who ever gets away alive from a blood bath? Not many. Using sprint even gets you punished sometimes. If you sprint around a corner and someone is there you immediately lose the battle because of the animation. The 4 shot BR makes this quick and easy. You might say that sprint destroys map and power weapon control. But this is not true. Whichever team in 4v4 controls power weapons have an upper hand. In H3 people rushed power weapons and power ups. In H4 the same thing happens. As someone who played H3 and enjoyed it can no longer stand it. I feel that the gameplay is not fast enough. The gaming industry is changing and Halo is too. Map control still exists it is just different now. 

 

Descope was a core feature in the original halo trilogy. The main argument for descope is competent snipers are near unstoppable. I think that a good way to fix this is to add descope to sniper class weapons only. These weapons being the sniper rifles, beam rifles, and binaries. This fixes the problem while allowing long range BR fights to flow seamlessly.

 

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AND BACK UP POINTS WITH REASONS

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These are all good and debatable points but this is 100% in the wrong section.

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I could make a montage of getting away one shot, everyone loved halo before sprint if sprints in the next game we will have the same population we have now. Descope is with all weapons so then the skill if you hit all your shots long range they cant touch you.

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These are all good and debatable points but this is 100% in the wrong section.

I am new here where should this be? And how do I get there?

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I could make a montage of getting away one shot, everyone loved halo before sprint if sprints in the next game we will have the same population we have now. Descope is with all weapons so then the skill if you hit all your shots long range they cant touch you.

Casuals have always been most of the population. From what I can tell they love sprint. 343 will not take it out because the general fps population enjoys sprint in multiple games. Isnt the problem with descope the sniper being too easy to use?

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Sprint does destroy maps. Since sprint the maps have been from horrible to bearable. Not good, or amazing, or memorable in any way. There can be good maps in H4 like Skyline but running away or sprinting across the map to stop a flag cap after all 4 was dead is pretty broken. The new 4sk settings doesnt offset running away either. Any not dumb (I dont mean to be insulting) player can judge if they're down shots and cant keep up and bail out. And callouts work both ways. You can accurately determine where not to run when you're running away. Even against good teams. Plus having 4sk settings doesnt guarantee a 4sk. People do miss. As for the pace of the game you can increase base player speed to 120%. They are already implementing that speed increase in the no sprint testing. You can check it out at Saucy Soars' stream on twitchtv 

No descope has no place AT ALL in halo. Makes any precision weapon op. Others too op. I would much rather have descope back in over no sprint but I've heard 343 cant take out no descope. But if it and/or sprint is in H5 Im not buying. 

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De-scope

 

I want it back in Halo 5. In previous Halo games, it took a lot of skill to use the Sniper as well as all the other precision weapons. Now, even a bad player can sit there taking shots and dome a skilled player. In Halo: Reach and other games before, if you didn't have skill with the sniper, you can hit a proper shot. De-scope rewards skilled players with the Sniper in the sense that they can get a no-scope even if they get kicked out of scope, if they are skilled enough. 

 

Sprint

 

In Halo 4, I don't mind it. But it does allow you to position yourself in really dumb places and get away with it. However, in Halo 4 if you are one-shot and sprint away, the other player can chase you down and kill you with their sprint as well, so I don't think it is game-breaking and too much of a problem. That's just my opinion. However, after playing Halo 3, I actually liked having no sprint in Matchmaking.

 

My opinion I want De-scope back over no-sprint.

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De-scope

 

I want it back in Halo 5. In previous Halo games, it took a lot of skill to use the Sniper as well as all the other precision weapons. Now, even a bad player can sit there taking shots and dome a skilled player. In Halo: Reach and other games before, if you didn't have skill with the sniper, you can hit a proper shot. De-scope rewards skilled players with the Sniper in the sense that they can get a no-scope even if they get kicked out of scope, if they are skilled enough. 

 

Sprint

 

In Halo 4, I don't mind it. But it does allow you to position yourself in really dumb places and get away with it. However, in Halo 4 if you are one-shot and sprint away, the other player can chase you down and kill you with their sprint as well, so I don't think it is game-breaking and too much of a problem. That's just my opinion. However, after playing Halo 3, I actually liked having no sprint in Matchmaking.

 

My opinion I want De-scope back over no-sprint.

So do you agree with descope only on sniper class weapons or on all scoping weapons?

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K2Five

It pains me to know that there are people out there that don't fully understand the effects that sprint have on the game.

 

It goes a lot deeper than someone sprinting away one shot and not dying, it goes a lot deeper than someone sprinting off spawn to finish you off when you were still one-shot from the last battle, and it goes a lot deeper than 'its just copying COD'

It completely -Yoinks!- with scale - that is the issue. Please describe to me a perfect map for sprint, a map that would work better scaled up for sprint, instead of left normal for no sprint. Does such a thing even exist? Can a map possibly be better made for sprint and with sprint, than made for no sprint and without sprint? No, its impossible.

 

Geometry has to be scaled to the abilities of spartans; the jump height, how far you can strafe in 1 second, how far you can throw a grenade, a grenade explosion radius, the effective range of your starting weapon, how long it takes you to move from one piece of cover to the next, all of this stuff, is extremely important to how the game plays. Yet it is all thrown to the wayside in favor of making sprint work. Maps have to be scaled up (aka overscaled in relation to all previous factors) to account for sprint.

 

Gandhi has talked about this before; the lack of power positions, but he wrongfully accused the killtimes as the culprit. While slow killtimes don't help, sprint is what really ruins power positions. I have used this example before but I will use it again:

Pink on Midship in Halo 2. That was a true power position and functioned as such, but no matter what we do we haven't been able to replicate the power and feel of the power position in anything we have made since that game. Why is that? Its because of sprint, nothing else has fundamentally changed the game as much as sprint has since then. Currently not even top middle on dispatch rivals the power and counter-strategies (which are equally important to consider) that pink provided.

When you held pink in H2, you had effective means of gunning down your foes as they walked from the base to pink. There was a relatively long journey to make from the cover of the base, to the cover of pink. This meant that it was dangerous as you had to expose yourself for a long period of time to be able to take the tower over. What this meant for the person holding pink, is that as long as they periodically checked the walkways to pink, they were free to shoot from pink and deal damage across map.

But what happens when you add sprint? That long journey is now a quick one, you can now make it into or under pink alive even if the guy at pink was looking at you, the guy holding pink now has to *constantly* check the walkways to pink, instead of just periodically, which means he now cant shoot from there without the serious risk of someone backsmacking him or gunning him down from the side. He also has to have 'internal' battles with people sprinting at pink more often, than actually using the power position. This is why top mid of dispatch, and even pink and gold of simplex, are such clusterfucks and pale in comparison to the gameplay that pink provided in Halo 2.

 

The fix to this issue some say, is to scale the map up. Make those walkways to pink longer so that it is still along journey to make even with sprint. But that creates two issues:

1) Lessens the effect of shooting from pink - if the rest of the map is further away, the power position has less presence and effect on the map because you cant do as much damage or get as many angles (imagine if pink on simplex was pushed back an extra half-map length, goodbye angles into bases)

 

2) Over-punishes the attackers. If you make it so a distance is a long one for sprinters, that means it will be impossible to walk. it also means you cant freaking shoot while you push. It makes balancing any area of the map extremely difficult as it needs to be large enough so that you can track players and so that power positions are actually power positions, but not large enough that it disables attackers in such away (not to mention any up-scaling -Yoinks!- with the scale of all the other combat components I mentioned earlier).

 

And the 'but you get slowed down when you get shot' argument doesn't fix ANY of these absolutely serious issues.

Remove sprint now.

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With the 4sk BR how many people do you find getting away. A good 4v4 team rarely lets someone get away because of callouts. In FFA who ever gets away alive from a blood bath? Not many. Using sprint even gets you punished sometimes. If you sprint around a corner and someone is there you immediately lose the battle because of the animation.The 4 shot BR makes this quick and easy. You might say that sprint destroys map and power weapon control. But this is not true. Whichever team in 4v4 controls power weapons have an upper hand.

 

People get away all the time. It is at no fault of the attacker either, sprint just adds a number of unnecessarily random variables to gameplay. Leaping off of power positions such as ring 3 of Abandon and top mid on Simplex can be perfectly acceptable at times in Halo 4 because you can get back so easily and quickly. If you can't get back to that same spot, you can just easily sprint to another power position in a moment's notice instead of being punished for your stupid decision.

 

Tons of arguments have already been made about how detrimental sprint is to gameplay, so I'm not going to continue to recite them all. I can just assure you that they're are all true and reasonable.

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Does sprint and descope belong in halo? Before you guys stop reading and say no to sprint and yes to descope. I like sprint. I know you'll probably say that it is a get out of jail free card but I would disagree. With the 4sk BR how many people do you find getting away. A good 4v4 team rarely lets someone get away because of callouts. In FFA who ever gets away alive from a blood bath? Not many. Using sprint even gets you punished sometimes. If you sprint around a corner and someone is there you immediately lose the battle because of the animation. The 4 shot BR makes this quick and easy. You might say that sprint destroys map and power weapon control. But this is not true. Whichever team in 4v4 controls power weapons have an upper hand. In H3 people rushed power weapons and power ups. In H4 the same thing happens. As someone who played H3 and enjoyed it can no longer stand it. I feel that the gameplay is not fast enough. The gaming industry is changing and Halo is too. Map control still exists it is just different now. 

 

Descope was a core feature in the original halo trilogy. The main argument for descope is competent snipers are near unstoppable. I think that a good way to fix this is to add descope to sniper class weapons only. These weapons being the sniper rifles, beam rifles, and binaries. This fixes the problem while allowing long range BR fights to flow seamlessly.

 

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AND BACK UP POINTS WITH REASONS

Halo 4<Halo Reach ZBNS<Halo 3<Halo 2<Halo 1 Obviously sprint and flinch are positively contributing to both the numbers and quality of Halo. I do not have the strength to explain to yet another person why Sprint and Flinch are game breaking mechanics in the Halo franchise so I will present them the numbers and that's that. 

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Halo 4<Halo Reach ZBNS<Halo 3<Halo 2<Halo 1 Obviously sprint and flinch are positively contributing to both the numbers and quality of Halo. I do not have the strength to explain to yet another person why Sprint and Flinch are game breaking mechanics in the Halo franchise so I will present them the numbers and that's that. 

By numbers I mean how many players there are.

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I hate no descope.  It gives too many second chances when a player misses a shot at long range.

 

I could live with sprint but it needs some tweaking.  If you stopped sprinting when shot and if you had a 1-2 second delay after comming out of a sprint where you could not shoot, beatdown or throw nades it would be much better.

 

I would rather have no sprint, but if it is here to stay they could make it better.

 

The nade indicator...

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Halo 4<Halo Reach ZBNS<Halo 3<Halo 2<Halo 1 Obviously sprint and flinch are positively contributing to both the numbers and quality of Halo. I do not have the strength to explain to yet another person why Sprint and Flinch are game breaking mechanics in the Halo franchise so I will present them the numbers and that's that. 

Hmm. I think you've got it a tiny bit mixed up. H3<ZBNS. The spread on the BR is what kills H3 for me and having my shots actually go where I want them to is a big thing

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 I could refute every one of your points but I am just going to say that if you think sprint=faster game you really did not play Halo CE or Halo 2, I would even argue Halo 3 is just as fast as H4 is on certain maps although its certainly slower than Halo CE+Halo 2.

 

Sprint is a huge defensive crutch as well as letting you get around the map faster, it should not be used as an argument for faster gameplay because it creates longer engagements and larger maps(which tend to be more campy ala Solace and Adrift) in return. Faster average movement speed and smaller maps more than makes up for the "bursts" of speed you get from sprint. 

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I'm playing reach right now and descope is 1000X more important in getting removed than sprint for H5. I would like sprint removed, maybe as a custom game option, but if we win anything, let's win bringing back descoping. Obviously for h4 it's not possible, so if we can get NS, lets take it, but I would fight hard for it in 4 in case it gives 343 the wrong impression

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With the 4sk BR how many people do you find getting away. A good 4v4 team rarely lets someone get away because of callouts.

 

As someone who played H3 and enjoyed it can no longer stand it. I feel that the gameplay is not fast enough. The gaming industry is changing and Halo is too. Map control still exists it is just different now. 

 

Descope was a core feature in the original halo trilogy. The main argument for descope is competent snipers are near unstoppable. I think that a good way to fix this is to add descope to sniper class weapons only. These weapons being the sniper rifles, beam rifles, and binaries. This fixes the problem while allowing long range BR fights to flow seamlessly.

 

 

 

1. People get away a lot. You described that with coordinated 4v4 teams, players rarely get away. Well, it works both ways. If I am on a coordinated team and have no shields, I have sprinted away from numerous situations and called out for help. My teammates can get to the general area quickly (and even faster with sprint) and provide cover fire as I get a chance to recover my shields.

 

2. Not once in 4v4 or less play in Halo CE or Halo 2 did I say, "boy I wish I could sprint". The game was a perfectly fine pace because the maps weren't enormous. And in all honesty, faster base movement speeds require better aiming in spite of aim assist (enemies are moving faster and so are you when strafing which makes it harder to aim). Map control is very loose in this game. Sure there are timed power weapons on the map (and even that took a while to implement) but that doesn't equate to map control.

 

I don't advocate removing sprint entirely for H5 - but I do hope there are 4v4 playlists with no sprint as well as the option to toggle it on and off in customs. Sprint is tolerable in 6v6 play and up.

 

3. Descope was a feature in every FPS Halo game up until now (and yes - Reach counts). It added another element of skill to the game in fighting for your scope. It would help balance weapons like the DMR which can rip people from across a map. What is/was the argument for removing descope? I haven't heard a good reason yet. By allowing players to constantly stay scoped in, they had to add the counter measure of flinch. They took away something nobody has ever complained about; and to balance it, they added something everyone hates. And the worst part about flinch is that it varies depending on the weapon you are being shot by. The only situation in Halo which flinch reminds me of is that of the beatdown system pre-patch in Halo 2. Different weapons would do different damage. Meleeing with a rocket launcher would do massive damage but the SMG did little. A couple of months in, Bungie made melee damage consistent across all weapons.

 

Descope should be added across the board in H5.

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