OT of Forge | What Are You Working On?

[SecretSchnitzel]

I've never really had any problem with boxy maps, but this is about as square as you can make a map, lol.  A bit too square for my taste actually.

If I were designing it (which...who knows, maybe I'll make my own version at some point) I would definitely make some changes to the overall shape.

 

Oh, I'm just teasing ya man. No worries.

 

But seriously, I do hate box maps... I can respect an original design, but if it's nothing more than interconnected boxes, I can't consider it that original...

[IKorlash]

Honestly, the point of making box maps, that I see, is to make forging easier and cleaner (considering forge's limitations vs. a map editor). It's also a good practice for using verticality (catwalks that overlap the bottom floor). Whether the map can be converted to having rounded corners/pathways probably depends on the map.

 

If you've seen the map "Quadrant," don't let that skew your opinion.

[SecretSchnitzel]

Honestly, the point of making box maps, that I see, is to make forging easier and cleaner (considering forge's limitations vs. a map editor). It's also a good practice for using verticality (catwalks that overlap the bottom floor). Whether the map can be converted to having rounded corners/pathways probably depends on the map.

 

If you've seen the map "Quadrant," don't let that skew your opinion.

 

True, true... And I totally get that. It'd be great if we could do something more, but we are severely limitted here... And sadly, many of these box maps could be so much more, but I simply can't like them as they are in their current form.

[xzamplez]

@Schnitzel: You don't have to like it, man. There's not a single map in the world that everybody likes, and there never will be. The problem is when people don't realize the difference between "don't like" and "don't play well".

 

I understand your problem with 90 degree maps, and I feel some similarities towards your view in terms of originality and creativity.

 

But, I do believe that view restricts you from seeing the strength of some maps.

[Fyrecide]

I've never really had any problem with boxy maps, but this is about as square as you can make a map, lol.  A bit too square for my taste actually.

If I were designing it (which...who knows, maybe I'll make my own version at some point) I would definitely make some changes to the overall shape.

 

My current map will be "boxy" in as much as it shares an overall sort of feel with Hang 'Em High, mixed with the inspiration of flow from the likes of Midship and a bit of Wizard/Warlock as well.

 

But generally speaking, it's very boxy; not a lot of curves. I may change a few walls or routes to be slightly curved in the later versions of the map, once I've nailed down the flow and made sure it plays well. But that'll likely be the very last thing I do, long after perfecting the structure/routes, spawning, weapons, etc.

 

But I don't see an issue with a lot of right-angles or boxy shapes, as long as your entire map isn't right-angles lol. Throw in a few diagonals and stuff

[Fyrecide]

There are forgers out there who are very capable of bringing the community "the next" Midship, Sanctuary, or The Pit (surely more capable than 343); but you need to recognize their ability and respect their vision.

 

This.

 

My problem is that, even though I do focus a lot on the flow of the map and how it will play, I often start maps because I have an idea for a part of the map (like a top-mid area, or just a cool structural idea in general) and what gets me past the point of just thinking about it to actually making it, is that the more I think about that idea, the more I build on the look of it in my mind.

 

So what usually ends up happening right before I start sketching it out (which I do before I ever set foot into Forge) is that I have this grand idea for what the map would look like if I had, say, 343's map design/development tools, special textures/lighting and all.

 

That's why I think I spend so much time on visuals; because I'm trying my best to get it as close to the more "developer-made" look and feel in my mind. I'm a designer (and developer) by profession, so I have a pretty decent imagination and therefore very grand scale of design when it comes to my maps.

 

The one I'm working on now is the only one that will even come close to the vision of it in my head. I pictured a map that looked a lot like Hang 'Em High, but had a bit of the "advanced / futuristic" feel of Monolith, Haven, or Epitaph (in terms of the Forerunner lights/holographic look).

 

/ramble

[SecretSchnitzel]

@Schnitzel: You don't have to like it, man. There's not a single map in the world that everybody likes, and there never will be. The problem is when people don't realize the difference between "don't like" and "don't play well".

 

I understand your problem with 90 degree maps, and I feel some similarities towards your view in terms of originality and creativity.

 

But, I do believe that view restricts you from seeing the strength of some maps.

 

I know, I know. And I know I let my dislike blinds me at times from the strengths... Although I'd like to say I'm capable of seeing them, but shrug them off because how much the boxiness deters me.

 

Now, I don't find myself too bothered by tight room-based maps all so much when we've got a precise utility weapon with a fast kill time (Reach GP, H:CE), but the aesthetics still are a huge deterrent. More so than other maps.

 

Really hoping the H2A gives us something aesthetically that we can actually work with... Simple textures that go together, it's not too damned much to ask for. Hell, asking for the ability to toggle textures/skins shouldn't be too much to ask for. :/

[Goat]

Something I was working on a few months ago. And by a few months I mean I built iterations of this on and off for a year. Some are "outdated". 

 

 

 

 

Bits and pieces are missing, but the gist of it is that there are two intersecting/overlapping Y paths and then routes that branch off of them to connect the sides and the bases. It's almost taking narrows and bending it inwards, but there are more counter sightlines and jumps. I was unsure of the flow and spawning though so I didn't bother to finish it. 

 

It's aesthetic heavy of course, but most of them are functioning as cover, callouts, jumps or LoS blockers for spawns. The bigass tower for example was originally just a pile of rocks because I needed to add cover to the bridge. That evolved into something you can stand on and fight around. 

[SecretSchnitzel]

Something I was working on a few months ago. And by a few months I mean I built iterations of this this on and off for a year. Some are "outdated". 

 

 

 

 

Bits and pieces are missing, but the gist of it is that there are two intersecting Y paths and then routes that branch off of them to connect the sides and the bases. It's almost taking narrows and bending it inwards but there are more counter sightlines and jumps. I was unsure of the flow and spawning though so I didn't bother to finish it. 

 

It's aesthetic heavy of course, but most of them are functioning as cover, jumps or LoS blockers for spawns. The bigass tower for example was originally just a pile of rocks because I needed to add cover to the bridge. That evolved into something you can stand on and fight around. 

 

Very sexy angular geometry, I like it, I like it!

 

Picture number 4... Artifact bases and bridge wall, lovely combination. Some one showed me that last spring and I fell in love with it instantly. Shame H4's Forge is so shoddy. :/

[Res]

Something I was working on a few months ago. 

 

brb pooping my pants

[Joseph]

Lets clean this up.

 

Quoting a post from 3 weeks ago to dredge up an argument / dead discussion is worthless and will only cause problems.  Now calling a staff member a "Douche bag" is clearly against the rules, and questioning moderation is also against the rules as well.

 

 

Also @@SecretSchnitzel - aPK's moderation is what got you perm-banned when the site launched - seeing as he is the one who banned you.  So I am not sure how saying "I miss apks moderation" really makes much sense here other than to fuel some drama fire.

 

Starting to regret unbanning you as I figured I would, I have also been messaged by several members with complaints regarding your brief return to the forums.  This is legit the only chance we will give you to relax before I revert the decision.

 

In-case I am being unclear I will gladly elaborate:

 

- Passive aggressive posting

- Sarcastic posting

- Attempting to stir up Drama

- Malicious posts that contribute nothing

 

You get the idea.

 

 

Lets cut the whole "fight the system" mentality in these Forge threads.  We have tried to accommodate the Forging community here as best as we possibly can.  Giving you your own section (Which in all honesty is one of the most in-active areas on the entire site).

 

We even ran a tournament in collaboration with 343 with the sole purpose of promoting community Forge maps so people who have not gotten any shine for the hours and hours they have put into creating maps could get some promotion and be recognized. So to think that I personally or Beyond as a whole hate the Forging community or have some type of "bias" towards people who Forge is downright ridiculous.  The simple fact is that we do not honestly care what you are into: Lore, Forge, competitive settings, Halo 1, Halo 2, Halo 3, Reach, Halo 4, Halo Wars, Spartan Assault, you like to play the Halo monopoly board game on the weekends with your parents.. it. does. not. matter. just follow the RULES when discussing them, and dont be an asshole to other people in the community.

 

 It is really not that much to ask.  And honestly guys, the Forging section (like I stated before) is one of the most inactive areas of the website, but myself and staff are in here more than almost any other area because a small amount of you cannot seem to follow the rules, which is sad.

[Goat]

Very sexy angular geometry, I like it, I like it!

 

Picture number 4... Artifact bases and bridge wall, lovely combination. Some one showed me that last spring and I fell in love with it instantly. Shame H4's Forge is so shoddy. :/

 

might have been me when you were working on the select redesign. i have a whole palette of this stuff but it's been tough trying to incorporate it into a map. i like this layout but halo 4's budget and gameplay has been holding me back. 

 

you guys think the layout is decent enough though? i might at least finish it so it's "playable" and then i'll redo it in H2A forge 

[SecretSchnitzel]

might have been me when you were working on the select redesign. i have a whole palette of this stuff but it's been tough trying to incorporate it into a map. i like this layout but halo 4's budget and gameplay has been holding me back. 

 

you guys think the layout is decent enough though? i might at least finish it so it's "playable" and then i'll redo it in H2A forge 

 

Oh yeah! It was you!

[Fyrecide]

I like the map, Goat (not gonna quote due to all the images).

That looks crazy complicated and I absolutely commend you for taking a very atypical approach!

[IKorlash]

 It is really not that much to ask.  And honestly guys, the Forging section (like I stated before) is one of the most inactive areas of the website, but myself and staff are in here more than almost any other area because a small amount of you cannot seem to follow the rules, which is sad.

 

Yeah, I guess it is sad.

 

What about the nonsense in OT of GD? Does that have to be reported for it for anything to be done? Anything said here pales in comparison to what happened there.

[CyReN]

Stop trying to pin issues on other subforums, those get reports too. The sad fact is that this section is very very inactive but somehow is near the top of reports and bans.

I don't know if it just Forgers in general or whatnot but it's embarrassing to see quite frankly. Too many fights and egos make it a dumpster fire here. Just follow the rules, report if you have issues. It isn't that hard. We shouldn't have to babysit this section.

If anybody has questions/want to continue this talk, feel free to PM me.

Thanks.

[Joseph]

Yeah, I guess it is sad.

 

What about the nonsense in OT of GD? Does that have to be reported for it for anything to be done? Anything said here pales in comparison to what happened there.

 

OT of GD is not bad, like @@CyReN mentioned the Forge area is the biggest problem area on the site - nobody can seem to play nice I am not sure why.

[Fyrecide]

Stop trying to pin issues on other subforums, those get reports too. The sad fact is that this section is very very inactive but somehow is near the top of reports and bans.

 

I don't know if it just Forgers in general or whatnot but it's embarrassing to see quite frankly. Too many fights and egos make it a dumpster fire here. Just follow the rules, report if you have issues. It isn't that hard. We shouldn't have to babysit this section.

 

If anybody has questions/want to continue this talk, feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks.

 

I really don't even know what happened to spawn this response from the admins/mods; I assume that I was not involved? Only because I have no idea what you or Saucey are talking about lol.

 

It must have been deleted or hidden before I saw it, I guess.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

OT of GD is not bad, like @@CyReN mentioned the Forge area is the biggest problem area on the site - nobody can seem to play nice I am not sure why.

The typical forge section of any site is where people critique others' work. That can feel personal and at times lead to emotions.

 

I could see if BE were to close the forge wing for good. But I for one come here not for forgers ' feedback on my maps, but feedback from the competitive players. That is the draw for me to come here. So I hope you keep forge wing open because it will pick up with MCC.

 

The competitive players have very good insight to offer forgers who want to create competitive maps.

[Fyrecide]

This is just my general and albeit somewhat limited experience here on this area of the forums, but I've both been treated with nothing but kindness as well as have treated others the same. Not sure about where or when all this disfunction seems to happen. I must always be too late to catch / see it.

[Joseph]

The typical forge section of any site is where people critique others' work. That can feel personal and at times lead to emotions.

 

I could see if BE were to close the forge wing for good. But I for one come here not for forgers ' feedback on my maps, but feedback from the competitive players. That is the draw for me to come here. So I hope you keep forge wing open because it will pick up with MCC.

 

The competitive players have very good insight to offer forgers who want to create competitive maps.

 

I understand that people can get defensive very quickly if someone does not like something they just put hours into, we have no plans to close the Forging section nor would I want to do that.  I just want everyone interact normally with eachother thats all.

[SecretSchnitzel]

I understand that people can get defensive very quickly if someone does not like something they just put hours into, we have no plans to close the Forging section nor would I want to do that.  I just want everyone interact normally with eachother thats all.

 

It's a bit difficult considering some forgers hold grudges for years because another forger was "overly harsh" with their criticisms. Bruised egos can vary drastically in the time it takes to heal. As Green pointed out, receiving criticism can hit pretty hard, especially considering the countless hours many of us poor into the art of level design. Most may see forge as essentially playing with lego blocks, we see it as a creative outlet and challenging intellectual exercise. Many of us have poured countless hours into studying level design, learning how to blend different design elements, what works and what doesn't, how game mechanics interact/effect level design, and dissecting successfully (and unsuccessful) maps. It may just be a hobby, and we may not have any money on the line with it, but we put for more time, effort, and emotional investment into it than any of you could even comprehend.

 

Simply said, forging is more than a game to us and you should try to understand the impact it has upon us.

[Joseph]

It's a bit difficult considering some forgers hold grudges for years because another forger was "overly harsh" with their criticisms. Bruised egos can vary drastically in the time it takes to heal. As Green pointed out, receiving criticism can hit pretty hard, especially considering the countless hours many of us poor into the art of level design. Most may see forge as essentially playing with lego blocks, we see it as a creative outlet and challenging intellectual exercise. Many of us have poured countless hours into studying level design, learning how to blend different design elements, what works and what doesn't, how game mechanics interact/effect level design, and dissecting successfully (and unsuccessful) maps. It may just be a hobby, and we may not have any money on the line with it, but we put for more time, effort, and emotional investment into it than any of you could even comprehend.

 

Simply said, forging is more than a game to us and you should try to understand the impact it has upon us.

The beginning of this post was fine, but then you steer off into the realm of

 

"we put more time, effort, and emotional investment than any of you can comprehend"

 

"Try to understand the impact it has on us"

 

Statements like this simply are not needed. While forging is time consuming, I assure you there are hobbies and activities that require more time and effort than forging a halo map. I am not saying this to downplay forging, but to suggest people "cannot comprehend" a time consuming hobby is nothing short of ridiculous. You are not doing gods work here, you are forging a Halo map. Let's not over hype the facts. Acting like people who Forge maps are above everyone else is lame, which is the vibe your post gives off.

 

(And once again I am not downplaying Forging whatsoever, just to be clear.)

[SecretSchnitzel]

The beginning of this post was fine, but then you steer off into the realm of

 

"we put more time, effort, and emotional investment than any of you can comprehend"

 

"Try to understand the impact it has on us"

 

Statements like this simply are not needed. While forging is time consuming, I assure you there are hobbies and activities that require more time and effort than forging a halo map. I am not saying this to downplay forging, but to suggest people "cannot comprehend" a time consuming hobby is nothing short of ridiculous. You are not doing gods work here, you are forging a Halo map. Let's not over hype the facts. Acting like people who Forge maps are above everyone else is lame, which is the vibe your post gives off.

 

(And once again I am not downplaying Forging whatsoever, just to be clear.)

 

I'm just emphasizing the disparity of understanding between hard core forgers and players. You're reading a bit too far into it. I absolutely am not implying we're better than anyone. But we are misinterpreted. We are under valued. And sadly, we're often mistreated and singled out.

 

We understand our limitations as designers, and often reach out to the community to help us... Sadly, as most of us aren't good players, that puts us at a disadvantaged standing to begin with. :/

[Joseph]

I'm just emphasizing the disparity of understanding between hard core forgers and players. You're reading a bit too far into it. I absolutely am not implying we're better than anyone. But we are misinterpreted. We are under valued. And sadly, we're often mistreated and singled out.

 

We understand our limitations as designers, and often reach out to the community to help us... Sadly, as most of us aren't good players, that puts us at a disadvantaged standing to begin with. :/

I am telling you how these types of posts come off to other people in the community.

 

For example:

If I say something like "I put so much time and work into Beyond that you couldn't even begin to comprehend or grasp what I have done here"

 

That is basically saying that I am on another level than you and you simply cannot operate at my pace.

 

That is lame, and nobody likes reading something like that, besides the person who wrote it. If that is really something you believe keep it to yourself, but the moment it spills over into a public discussion that's when arguments start and people become offended.