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Joseph

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I don't understand this discussion on asymmetry. If a map is only slightly asymmetric then it is symmetric for all intentions. A baseball field is an example of an asymmetric map. Sand trap, high ground, and zanzabar are asymmetric. Valhalla, isolation, and Longbow, as minor as they are in difference are symmetric.

The correct term is to say they function symmetrically. They literally arent symmetrical.

 

Saying that, Valhalla, high ground, sand trap do certainly not function symmetrically.

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I don't understand this discussion on asymmetry. If a map is only slightly asymmetric then it is symmetric for all intentions. A baseball field is an example of an asymmetric map. Sand trap, high ground, and zanzabar are asymmetric. Valhalla, isolation, and Longbow, as minor as they are in difference are symmetric.

Don't feed the bears.  lol

 

I prefer the term functioning symmetric because I feel it fits those style maps more than labeling them as asymmetric would, even though, technically they are in fact asymmetrical.  The human brain can deduce that having only the giant rock in the middle of Beaver Creek being more accessible to one side of the map does make it asymmetrical, but when 98% of the map is identical I don't feel it should be called asymmetrical.

 

Thus for me, functioning asymmetrical is the perfect balance.

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IMO

 

Full Symmetry - e.g. Narrows, The Pit

Bases look and function the same for both teams

Paths look and function the same for both teams

Power positions look and function the same for both teams

Lines of Sight function the same for both teams

Spawn layout is the same for both teams

 

 

Aesthetic Asymmetry - e.g. Standoff

Bases may look different but function the same for both teams

Paths may look different but function the same for both teams

Power Positions may look different but function the same for both teams

Lines of Sight function the same for both teams

Spawn layout is the same for both teams

 

(NOTE: The only thing that differentiates these maps from Full Symmetric maps are its aesthetics (natural vs artificial). If any aesthetic differences change major sightlines or paths, it becomes one of the latter two)

 
 

Functional Symmetry - e.g. Valhalla, Avalanche

Bases may look and function the same or different for both teams

Paths may look and function the same or different for both teams

Power Positions may look and function the same for both teams

Lines of Sight may function the same or different for both teams

Spawn layout is the same for both teams 

 

 

Full Asymmetry - e.g. Last Resort, Guardian

Bases look and function different for both teams

Paths look and function different for both teams

Power Positions look and function different for both teams

Lines of Sight function different for both teams

Spawn Layout is different for both teams

 

(NOTE: An asymmetric map is not Functionally Symmetric even if players are spawning "opposite" of one another).

 

 

There's some variation even within these though. Some asymmetric maps are more asymmetric than others, and some functionally symmetric maps might tip closer to asymmetry. 

 

Functionally Symmetric maps are the most interesting to me, but they're rarely done well. 

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Aesthetic Asymmetry - Simplex

 

The actual term for salotsymmetry is pseudosymmetrical, or apparent symmetry. 

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Aesthetic Asymmetry - Simplex

 

Simplex would be Full Symmetry to me (and then Mirror Symmetry) if the bases were laid out the same way. However, I believe the bases are inverted, so I'd put them under Functional Symmetry. The terms in @@Fated's post are a bit more accurate descriptions.  

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What symmetry is Taiga then? Since it supports team paintball, I figured it could be functionally symmetric, but it appear salot like an aesthetically asymmetrical map.

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How I view symmetry in Halo.

 

to me this is all over analyzing... If a map appears symmetrical then it should be treated as symmetrical. Asymmetrical is where there is absolutely zero symmetry, like a base ball field, and for a game that is fully asymmetrical, like base ball.

 

And what the freak... one post a day and all of the sudden people are replying to my post like ants coming out of the woodwork...

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,,,,,,,

 

Mirror Symmetry - One half of the map is flipped on itself. These make up the majority of symmetric maps (Pit, Midship)

Inverse Symmetry - The map layout is oriented the same for both teams (Citadel, Sanctuary)

Rotational Symmetry - If you cut the map in half, the top and bottom will be the same. In other words, Foundation. 

Asymmetry - According to Certain Affinity, random shit everywhere

 

 

Functionally Symmetric maps are the most interesting to me, but they're rarely done well. 

 

 

Foundation is reflective translation (what you call mirror). There is only reflective and rotational translation symmetry. your inverse is rotational and your rotational is mirror.

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Foundation is reflective translation (what you call mirror). There is only reflective and rotational translation symmetry. your inverse is rotational and your rotational is mirror.

 

That works for simplicity, but I prefer to distinguish symmetric maps like Foundation from the ones where opposing power positions are different. Getting technical, Foundation would be reflecting a forth of itself whereas a map like Midship is only reflecting half. 

 

Makes more sense to me that way but I'll remove it to avoid confusion. 

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How I view symmetry in Halo.

 

to me this is all over analyzing... If a map appears symmetrical then it should be treated as symmetrical. Asymmetrical is where there is absolutely zero symmetry, like a base ball field, and for a game that is fully asymmetrical, like base ball.

 

And what the freak... one post a day and all of the sudden people are replying to my post like ants coming out of the woodwork...

 

Not completely true. I realize just about all symmetrical maps play symmetrically, but it's more than possible to make a symmetrical map play asymmetrically through asymmetric initial spawns and an asymmetric weapon layout. A good possibility I could think of would be 1v1 on Midship, where you could set spawns and weapons differently instead of 'spawn across each other, shoot immediately, and/or push for the same weapon.'

 

That's an idea that could use experimenting in my opinion, with all the Midships and Sanctuaries we have.

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Not completely true. I realize just about all symmetrical maps play symmetrically, but it's more than possible to make a symmetrical map play asymmetrically through asymmetric initial spawns and an asymmetric weapon layout. A good possibility I could think of would be 1v1 on Midship, where you could set spawns and weapons differently instead of 'spawn across each other, shoot immediately, and/or push for the same weapon.'

 

That's an idea that could use experimenting in my opinion, with all the Midships and Sanctuaries we have.

Yes you could make a symmetrical map play asymmetrically. One Bomb would play asymmetrically on a symmetrical map. But in any case you come up with it is still a symmetrical map.

 

I do like the point made where uneven power positions make the map unsymmetrical, but i think how they are positioned and how much difference is a key in that distinguishing feature. If one side has a CLEAR advantage, then it would be a bit asymmetrical. I consider Valhalla symmetrical even if someone argues that there is a significant advantage for the blue team being closer to the pelican.

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 If one side has a CLEAR advantage, then it would be a bit asymmetrical. I consider Valhalla symmetrical even if someone argues that there is a significant advantage for the blue team being closer to the pelican.

But its not about advantages at all......its about the geometry of the map which is completely different. 

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 I consider Valhalla symmetrical even if someone argues that there is a significant advantage for the blue team being closer to the pelican.

The top middle hill. One side uses it as cover essentially, for the other team (beach side), its alot harder to get there and alot harder to break up a set up.

 

 Valhalla LITERALLY isint symmetrical.

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The top middle hill. One side uses it as cover essentially, for the other team (beach side), its alot harder to get there and alot harder to break up a set up.

 

Valhalla LITERALLY isint symmetrical.

 

I don't share your view on this. Geometry is symmetric to enforce game play symmetry not just to look or be symmetric. At the heart of symmetric geometry is the intent to support symmetric game play. That is the "driver". And it truly is the only driver because symmetry takes away from maps. It rarely gives back. It is a crutch. A necessary negative.

 

Valhalla is symmetric enough and specifically for the intent of being symmetric to support symmetrical games. The deviations are minor to give back to the map a natural feel that pure symmetry steals. And the intent is to make game play a better experience.

 

I honestly feel you are over reacting to the differences. This discussion has made me think more on the topic to drive deeper on the subject on my blog.

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Working on Cypher. 2v2. Asymmetric. Quake-ish

 

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Acid doesn't kill you. It just slowly lowers shields.

 

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Whats going on guys!

Hey, what's up?  Just saw this.  :)

 

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Important question:

 

Are there any offense/defense gametypes (with rounds) on Halo 4?

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Important question:

 

Are there any offense/defense gametypes (with rounds) on Halo 4?

It is strange that the only asymmetric game type is flood. There are no asymmetric objective game types. Sad and very curious that 343 chose that direction for h4.

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It is strange that the only asymmetric game type is flood. There are no asymmetric objective game types. Sad and very curious that 343 chose that direction for h4.

Everyday I found limitations and limitations again. This game fking sucks!

 

 

Anyways I'm working on a new gametype for Action Sack...

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