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"Next Utility Weapon" Poll w/ (Un)biased Options

Next Utility Weapon Characteristics  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. Firing mode?

    • Single shot
      43
    • Burst fire
      48
    • Dynamic (Lightrifle)
      10
    • Automatic
      1
  2. 2. Spamming curve?

    • Bloom
      0
    • Recoil ("kick")
      21
    • Overheat
      2
    • No artificial curve
      79
  3. 3. Aim assist?

    • Higher
      3
    • Medium *(current BR/DMR levels, not necessarily RRR)
      31
    • Lower
      64
    • No aim assist
      4
  4. 4. Zoom capability?

    • 2x
      84
    • 3x
      14
    • 4x
      3
    • Double zoom
      1
    • No zoom
      0
  5. 5. Shots to kill?

    • 3sk
      10
    • 4sk
      84
    • 5sk
      2
    • 6sk
      1
    • Dynamic (Lightrifle)
      5
  6. 6. Bullet spread within reticle?

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      84
  7. 7. Bullet trails?

    • Yes
      59
    • No
      43
  8. 8. Kills per clip?

    • Unlimited (energy-based)
      3
    • 2
      8
    • 3
      55
    • 4
      33
    • 5
      3
  9. 9. *Rate of fire?

    • Slow (H3 Magnum)
      5
    • Medium (H4 DMR)
      79
    • Fast (H4 Carbine)
      15
    • *Dynamic - scoped vs unscoped (poll edit)
      3
  10. 10. Old or new?

    • Exactly the same as a previous utility weapon
      19
    • Similar to an existing weapon
      61
    • Completely new
      22


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Aiming is more than just physical training too. It requires me knowing the acceleration/aim assist, matching the maximum fire rate, finding the right sensitivity, knowing my opponents strafe, accommodating for errors, knowing how to position myself so I'm the least exposed while still being able to shoot, etc.

How does this relate back to your original point?

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How does this relate back to your original point?

My original point is while I'm all for increasing the skillgap, it should be done intelligently, not just to make things harder. New mechanics should primarily make the game deeper and add new strategies/meta.

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How about this: CE Pistol is the most difficult to use but also the potentially deadliest; the other precision weapons are on map; they're slightly easier to use and have advantages in each their own situations.

 

You just described what power weapons are.

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My original point is while I'm all for increasing the skillgap, it should be done intelligently, not just to make things harder. New mechanics should primarily make the game deeper and add new strategies/meta.

How do you make tasks require more skill to perform optimally without making these tasks more difficult?

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How do you make tasks require more skill to perform optimally without making these tasks more difficult?

Tasks should become more difficult, but the primary focus should be adding depth. And tasks should become more difficult in an intelligent, logical, way, not just by forcing the player to practice more.

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Tasks should become more difficult, but the primary focus should be adding depth. And tasks should become more difficult in an intelligent, logical, way, not just by forcing the player to practice more.

You seem to be unable to answer this question. I think this is a good stopping point for now.

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It all depends on the strafe. A fast strafe makes aiming more skillful, and a high rate of fire make strafing more skillful. Perfection.

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How do you make tasks require more skill to perform optimally without making these tasks more difficult?

 

Tasks should become more difficult, but the primary focus should be adding depth. And tasks should become more difficult in an intelligent, logical, way, not just by forcing the player to practice more.

 

You seem to be unable to answer this question. I think this is a good stopping point for now.

I stated that tasks should become more difficult, answering your question. I never said that the game shouldn't become more difficult. Its just that increasing the ROF too high is artificially difficult and has many negative connotations

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You just described what power weapons are.

True, except the more powerful a weapon is, the more skillful it should become. So the skillfulness would increase with potential usefulness. The Magnum would have the fastest kill time, followed by the DMR, then the Lightrifle, Carbine, and Battle Rifle. The order is somewhat debatable.

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I see we aren't willing to try no aim assist. Why are you gentlemen and ladies so afraid of what I've been playing with for years in TF2 X360? Missing should be a more common part of the game. Perhaps sugared with a little magnetism on top?

 

 

@Whoever-chose-Automatic: Looks like someone has embraced their inner troll. :D

 

Because its not like the utility rifle of Republic Commando was an automatic rifle.

 

 

 

Now imagine an AR with no spread/no bloom.

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I see we aren't willing to try no aim assist. Why are you gentlemen and ladies so afraid of what I've been playing with for years in TF2 X360? Missing should be a more common part of the game. Perhaps sugared with a little magnetism on top?

 

Now imagine an AR with no spread/no bloom.

Bullet magnetism should die in a hole the same goes for snapping. Acceleration isn't bad, and friction isn't much worse. Taking away aim assist completely places too much emphasis on the act of shooting and tales away from the importance of positioning, communication, and awareness. It also makes competitive game play very inaccessible for players who are just starting out, but I'm not about to advocate a full-on crutch.

- - -

Sometimes it takes a daring troll to challenge the status quo.

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I stated that tasks should become more difficult, answering your question. I never said that the game shouldn't become more difficult. Its just that increasing the ROF too high is artificially difficult and has many negative connotations

 

Please define connotations. Thanks.

 

I see we aren't willing to try no aim assist.

 

lol, inb4 12 second average kill times. No aim assist / magnetism is noscoping. People landing four or five noscopes in a row is the kind of stuff that lands on montages. 

 

Anyways, I remember playing a mod with no aim assist a long time ago (I think it kept the default magnetism) and no spread, etc. It was somewhat harder than default, but it wasn't anything incredibly difficult.

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Please define connotations. Thanks.

 

 

If the rate of fire cap is set too high (much higher than carbine), rapid fire controllers could become much more prevalent in Halo. Halo becomes less accessible, but not really any more competitive. Cadence to aiming is lost. Some people are unable to shoot that fast (lacking the finger reaction times, which cannot be substantially improved) and are at a permanent disadvantage. Overall, if movement acceleration is removed entirely, the carbine should probably be the fastest a utility weapon can fire.

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I really like the way the weapons function in the modded settings with reduced aim assist. It's nice to feel like I earned my kills. I hope the next Halo is like that.

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So guys, why not overheat + fast RoF? Am I missing something?

 

Relevant overheat-related discussion below.

 

 

The only way for an artificial pacing curve for rate of fire not to be random is to have overheat, like on the Beam Rifle and Storm Rifle. Of course, most people think using energy weapons as the main utility weapon would be ridiculous, but I thought I'd add the option in order to avoid a bias.

 

 

 

Ya overheat would work, but we're supposed to be getting off fast shots anyways. Either way the skill element is just knowing how fast the weapon can shoot, if you shoot early without overheat, you lose some time pulling the trigger again, and with overheat the dynamics are the same except you'd get punished slightly more for missing (whatever the weapon swap time is).

 

It could also cause problems - say you're 1v1ing a guy and get him down to one shot, you can just spam the trigger a few times in his body for the kill (who cares if you overheat, he's dead). I suppose that if it's properly implemented (only two fast shots before overheating or something small like that), you wouldn't have a problem. I think I'll have to switch my utility weapon vote to overheat for now.. when I read overheat I thought about something rather different..

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If the rate of fire cap is set too high (much higher than carbine), rapid fire controllers could become much more prevalent in Halo. Halo becomes less accessible, but not really any more competitive. Cadence to aiming is lost. Some people are unable to shoot that fast (lacking the finger reaction times, which cannot be substantially improved) and are at a permanent disadvantage. Overall, if movement acceleration is removed entirely, the carbine should probably be the fastest a utility weapon can fire.

Who said anything about increasing the rate of fire so drastically?

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Actually, a weapon with a fast kill time and high amount of hits required can speed up game play. Take this exaggerated situation, for example.

- - -

In a FFA match, Players 1, 2, and 3 are using a weapon with no aim assist that kills in two hits. Player 1 is clearly the best (judging by the visible ranking system and scoreline of the match, which is certainly not measured by increments of ten, because that would be unnecessary, kind of like this tangent I'm going off on). Anyway, Player 1 knows he can beat either player in an even 1v1. So he approaches Player 2 and two-shots him; Player 2 was not as skilled, so he only got one shot to hit Player 1. While Player 2 is waiting in what is certainly not a kill cam, Player 1 is one-shot, no-shields. Player 1 sees Player 3 and knows that he can out-[insert name of utility weapon here] Player 3, but only in an even 1v1. So Player 1 waits an agonizing amount of time for his shields to recharge and finally two-shot Player 3, who gets Player 1 one-shot because of pure luck. Meanwhile, Player 2 has just respawned; Player 1 is forced to walk away from a fight he knows he can win--if he weren't constantly put into campy situations by bad players who can so easily damage his shields.

- - -

Let's look at Situation 2. Player 1 is still the best of the three, but they are using a different utility weapon that has no aim assist and requires six shots to kill. Player 1 seven-shots Player 2 (he's not perfect), who gets two shots on Player 1. Player 1 sees Player 3, challenges him, and gets a crispy six-shot while sustaining only three more shots of damage; no need to hide. Rinse and repeat.

- - -

I know you said there should be a balance, but even a slight increase (I know I exaggerated) can speed up game play.

 could possibly work out. I'd have to see it in action to be sure

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Who said anything about increasing the rate of fire so drastically?

Faster than 5 shots per second is too fast, how fast were you suggesting?

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True, except the more powerful a weapon is, the more skillful it should become. So the skillfulness would increase with potential usefulness. The Magnum would have the fastest kill time, followed by the DMR, then the Lightrifle, Carbine, and Battle Rifle. The order is somewhat debatable.

 

Now you are describing what is known as "clutter".

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Faster than 5 shots per second is too fast, how fast were you suggesting?

About Carbine speed. I think that's about five s/s, possibly fewer.

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I agree.

 

While we're at it

 

Let's put

 

Sniper rifle

Beam rifle

Binary rifle

 

Rockets

Grenade Launcher

Fuel Rod

Rocket Pistol

Spartan Laser

Incineration cannon

 

Bolt shot

Shotgun

Spreadshot

Mauler

 

Sticky grenades

Frag grenades

Flame grenades

Pulse grenades

Spike grenades

 

Camo

Overshield

Damage boost

Speed boost

 

All on the same map.

 

For variety's sake.

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I agree.

 

Bleh. What's the point of 20 guns that do the same thing, but one gun is slightly harder to use than the other gun? Why not just keep "hard" guns? What do the "easy" guns do for skillgap?

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While we're at it

 

Let's put

 

Blahblahblahblahblahimcursedlemonblahblahblah

(omitted long list of weapons)

All on the same map.

 

For variety's sake.

I didn't say you have to put them all on the same map.

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