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LeandroTrooper

What did seriously damaged Halo?

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I mean... Sprint and No-Descope couldn't be the ultimate cause for Halo 4's population to drop from 400k to 30k.
What are your thoughts? A list would be neat.

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-Sprint

-Armor Abilities

-Personal Ordnance

-Infinity Slayer

-Huge/bad Maps

-Unbalanced weapons out of the box

-Forge 1.5

-No competitive endorsements (spectator mode/MLG dropped Halo)

-Flinch

-No descope

-Removed SEVERAL gametypes

-No classic playlist at launch like we were promised

-Capture the flag got destroyed in so many ways

-Custom game options SEVERELY restricted

-No custom power up

-Can't toggle ordnance ammo or make timers static

-Weapons despawn too quickly 

 

What did I miss?

Ranks

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Halo Reach

This. If Reach never existed and 343 took the Halo franchise from Bungie after Halo 3, they would most likely have based H4 off H3, adding a few tweaks I bet. I don't think it would have occurred to them to add AA's, Sprint etc to a new game in a popular franchise, instead, 343 looked at the most recent Halo title and copied the majority of it to keep a "familiar" feel.

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This. If Reach never existed and 343 took the Halo franchise from Bungie after Halo 3, they would most likely have based H4 off H3, adding a few tweaks I bet. I don't think it would have occurred to them to add AA's, Sprint etc to a new game in a popular franchise, instead, 343 looked at the most recent Halo title and copied the majority of it to keep a "familiar" feel.

 

343 copied CoD more than Reach in my opinion. They just took AA's and shit guns like the DMR and social MM from Reach.... the rest like flinch, their whole "War games" set-up, PO's, default sprint, insta-respawn, progression systems, grenade indicators, removal of Halo medals for "points", easiest aiming in the series, this game was directly influenced by CoD and it does not surprise me Kevin Franklin the lead seems to have a huge hard-on for CoD-style gameplay.

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I don't think you guys know that MS really changes the production of Halo.  They decide what mechanics to have, they decide what to add, they decide if something is good or bad for the game, they have the final say in pratically everything.

 

Sprint would have still happened, with Bungies love of spread I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom was also in "343i's Reach" and the list would go on.

 

If MS noticed something that was even slightly too difficult, the meta was maybe too much, the maps too complex, etc. they could have gutted the issue however the hell they wanted. 

 

Basing off a game from h3 wouldn't have helped as the game is already insanely gutted when it comes to competitive merit and 343i hasn't shown how their game hasn't been gutted for competitive merit.

 

This is why I don't think H5 is going to be any good.  Not because of 343i, but specifically MS in general.  I think people like Quinn, John Merke, etc are all fine additions to 343i but the issue is they have no freedom at all.  There is a true reason why devs leave AAA titles and it's mainly because the creativity isn't there at all.  Gearbox was offered to make MW3 and they had the same reason, they couldn't do what they wanted and had to listen to higher ups

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So I was just reading the Halowaypoint forums (which I do from time to time for amusement/ to get a feel for another side of the community) and read a thread started by someone who I recognized as one of the biggest defenders of Halo 4 - DSight. (I am pretty sure he had used  the "if you want to play Halo 3, go play Halo 3" line on at least one occasion) However, recently he started running into problems. I'll copy and paste the OP. And keep in mind, this is from a more casual player's perspective.  

 

 

"I've been having a few bad days playing Halo 4 lately, but by losing so much I can see why it dropped in player population so quickly and why people stopped playing.

Personal Ordnance causes random matchups in which you can't know what the opponent has until it is too late. I can grab the power weapons on Longbow and sweep around the edge of the map but come up against someone with a SAW or rocket launcher and I'm dead. This is frustrating because you're dying to many times with no way to fight against this.

Sprint closes the distance between players or lets them escape. So many times have players ran straight at me to melee me, throw and stick plasma grenades, or use the boltshot/sword/shotgun. If I catch a player out in the open, I can shoot them but they will just turn around and run into cover (even if they put themselves in a vulnerable position) because it takes so long to kill someone. This is frustrating to new players who come from Call of Duty or Battlefield because you cannot capitalize on that kill. Players come into this game, see how frustrating it is to just get a kill and go back to playing something else.

Radar has a huge range compared to past Halo games. This allows vehicles, and opponents to see you faster, sprint to cover the distance, run past grenades and overwhelm you. There have been so many times I've been overwhelmed by a whole aggressive team throwing grenades before they even see me because of a small red blip on their radar.

Spawns coupled with sprinting causes maps to feel small. Players will get killed, and spawn nearby (this is even more evident in FFA matches) and run right back to kill you. This is frustrating because if you barely get a kill, you can't defend yourself fast enough. Which leads to my next point:

Shield recharge is so slow that if you kill someone, odds are they will spawn and sprint back to you as your shield is recharging. This has happened over and over again with players just running right back at me. They know where I am because of the kill cam, and if they don't they can find me with radar.

Armor abilities are frustrating to play against because you don't know what people have until it is too late. If you're hiding from someone, they might have promethean vision, and therefore you're bombarded with grenades and you die.

If you have the higher ground or catch someone unaware, they have jetpack and hold the boost while they kill you with an assault rifle. If you're trying to gain ground on Ragnarok, you'll get destroyed by active camo snipers or DMR/LR users. If you try to gain ground by shooting at someone, they won't descope out so all they have to do is continue to shoot at you from a comfortable position while you are vulnerable. Even if you see the person first, odds are they will kill you first.

This is frustrating because it makes it really hard to prepare/defend/attack against such random assortment of options. Couple this idea with loadouts/perks/armor abilities and there is an endless amount of options to try and defend/attack against. Having loads of options in Call of Duty/Battlefield works because you can kill someone in a few milliseconds. Having over a second kill time (while seems very short when you read "a second") makes this gameplay experience frustrating.

The CSR system across every playlist matches you up with super competitive people who are either far below your rank, or way above your rank. This is partly because of the low population, HOWEVER sometimes players just want to have fun. By having every playlist use CSR and trueskill so strictly (especially with parties over 3), it becomes frustrating to get beat into the ground when you don't want to try really hard, but only just a bit.

Also there is no release "playlist". Firefight usually handled this. If you got frustrated at multiplayer, you could load up firefight or social playlists and just take it easy and cool down. In Halo 4, Spartan Ops isn't the same experience and if you've already played the campaign you're pretty much left with quitting the game altogether. You could play forge or use the theatre but they're not as interactive or fun for a large audience of gamers.

tl;dr: I think this is why the population dropped off so quickly: Halo 4 offers Halo but with frustrating game mechanics that play against each other and offer too much randomness to lock down a consistent experience. Other games offer a smoother, more enjoyable experience with far less frustrating "What just happened?!" moments."

 

 

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst221041_I-can-see-why-people-are-turned-off.aspx

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No good ranking system imo is the number one reason why halo is where it is

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To be honest, all the things people have said above me killed the hyper-competitive scene that we are involved in. In past games, the 200-400k population was HARDLY comprised of MLG players... 20% MAX played MLG...

 

The true thing that weakened Halo's longevity in my eyes was the confusion between complexity and variety. Older Halo's gameplay had a genius simplicity to it, and the components that made up the matchmaking were very diverse and offered something for everyone. 

Halo 4's formula reversed that, in my eyes at least, with extremely complex gameplay mechanics, and a sparse selection options for online play (maps, playlists, gametypes)

 

 

also... randomness... Halo was never about randomness.

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"In Halo 1, there was maybe 30 seconds of fun that happened over and over and over and over again. And so, if you can get 30 seconds of fun, you can pretty much stretch that out to be an entire game."

 

Those 30 seconds of fun are gone for the players

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Yeah now it's just 5 seconds of fun, 10 seconds of despair, 5 seconds of denial and then the final 10 seconds are acceptance.

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Because the only people who asked for space-CoD are focus-group/survey-obsessed upstream marketers who spend more time in conference rooms at 343i than actually playing Halo or talking to the real fans.

Off topic, what ever happen to the manuscript you were writing?

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easiest aiming in the series

I would argue that it was easier to aim in Halo 2 and possibly Halo 3. Halo 4 has a superior hit-scan system, slightly larger hitboxes, and certain amount of auto aim that make shots register consistently, for the most part. In Halo 3 you had to lead your shots, but the actual aim assist was atrocious. Invasive, unnatural, in my opinion. As for Halo 2 (I'm using the BR as a reference throughout the games)... For starters, the reticle didn't even need to be over the other player for the shot to count. As for the actual aim assist, it was to the point where you could quad shot someone with your right thumb off the stick.

Sorry for disputing you that much on a single quote, but it's a flat-out untruth.

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I would argue that it was easier to aim in Halo 2 and possibly Halo 3. Halo 4 has a superior hit-scan system, slightly larger hitboxes, and certain amount of auto aim that make shots register consistently, for the most part. In Halo 3 you had to lead your shots, but the actual aim assist was atrocious. Invasive, unnatural, in my opinion. As for Halo 2 (I'm using the BR as a reference throughout the games)... For starters, the reticle didn't even need to be over the other player for the shot to count. As for the actual aim assist, it was to the point where you could quad shot someone with your right thumb off the stick.

Sorry for disputing you that much on a single quote, but it's a flat-out untruth.

 

Taking in the WHOLE game, it is much easier to consistently four-shot and you dont have Halo 2's fast movement/strafe or Halo 3's smaller hit-boxes/shot-lead to make up for it. You could get multi-kills easily in H2 even jaro's were possible in FFA H2 due to fast-pace of the game and the superior accuracy of the BR and quickness of the mechanics(made quicker by glitching of course). 

 

Aim assist has been a problem for multiple installments in the series, but its made even worse if you have sluggish movement, huge hit-boxes, and mechanics like sprint that nerf the base movement speed.

 

This needs to change if Halo is to ever have a large competitive skill-gap again.

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Taking in the WHOLE game, it is much easier to consistently four-shot and you dont have Halo 2's fast movement/strafe or Halo 3's smaller hit-boxes/shot-lead to make up for it. You could get multi-kills easily in H2 even jaro's were possible in FFA H2 due to fast-pace of the game and the superior accuracy of the BR and quickness of the mechanics(made quicker by glitching of course).

 

Aim assist has been a problem for multiple installments in the series, but its made even worse if you have sluggish movement, huge hit-boxes, and mechanics like sprint that nerf the base movement speed.

 

This needs to change if Halo is to ever have a large competitive skill-gap again.

OK, I can agree with that. It's easier to hit people in Halo 4, but the actual aiming is definitely easier in Halo 2 or 3. One of the things I want in Halo 5 is a skill gap with the utility weapon and the power weapons.

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Bloom and armor lock in Reach along with no Ranks. Thats what made people start to leave. Now with Halo 4being just barely recognizable as Hal at release no one liked it. Also I feel like Reach post patch DMR>Halo 4 BR

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-Sprint

-Armor Abilities

-Personal Ordnance

-Infinity Slayer

-Huge/bad Maps

-Unbalanced weapons out of the box

-Forge 1.5

-No competitive endorsements (spectator mode/MLG dropped Halo)

-Flinch

-No descope

-Removed SEVERAL gametypes

-No classic playlist at launch like we were promised

-Capture the flag got destroyed in so many ways

-Custom game options SEVERELY restricted

-No custom power up

-Can't toggle ordnance ammo or make timers static

-Weapons despawn too quickly 

 

What did I miss?

Active camo powerup

 

Bloom too

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No Ranks... Even with all of Reachs and Halo 4s flaws there would be a decent population if there was something to work towards in each game from launch.

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The franchise being old. Everyone I know personally works for a living now and has at least one kid. They also have the latest Halo

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None of the mechanics are glaringly bad (besides maybe no-descope and sprint), but when combined with the maps and the sandbox, Halo 4 just didn't work.

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