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Why do you dislike melee lunge?

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I agree that 99% of mechanics changed from Halo CE to 2 were hugely downgraded, but why is melee lunge necessarily bad? 

CE's melee system was fine- not a ton of depth, but enough to make it noteworthy. However, it's one of the places where I think H2 was a clear upgrade. 

In Halo 2, a fair portion of the tactical skillgap exists solely because of how the melee works.  Half the button glitches become either weirdly disjointed or impossible if you were to remove lunge. Where CE allowed a talented pistol user to possibly win a 2v1, H2 rewards timing, aim, as well as "juking" in CQC. Halo 2's lunge acceleration meant that you could have completely unpredictable reversals in CQC, which forced people to always be quick witted. 

Halo 3 and Reach hugely downgraded the melee system from H2. H3, you could now beat down people without having to be accurate at all. Reach in particular was godawful with base settings, and will be henceforth unmentioned. 

 

If Halo: Infinite used a significantly faster BMS and strafe acceleration, along with a melee system that-

• Required 3 hits to kill from full health. 

• Required the reticle to be precisely on the enemy for the melee to land. 

• Lunge wasn't instantaneous like in H5, and can be avoided with a well timed strafe/jump/crouch. 

• Allowed for some animation/cooldown cancelling glitches. 

 

I think it would be great. It would certainly be an upgrade from the current melee system. 

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It's bad when it's practically half the length of the sword lunge and only requires the opponent to be somewhere on the screen for it to hit.

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lunge how implemented in the series, it's just a wheelchair version of ce lunge. you are looking through rose tinted goggles. you do not have to be accurate to get halo2 beatdown, they just made it more consistent in halo3+. 

h2+ has all the ranges the same, and while some weapons do more damage, they aren't relevant in the meta. 

You claim that people would juke in cqc for halo2, and that's true, but people also juke in CE just as well? 

CE's melee system has something unique. Every weapon has a different horizontal and vertical range which isn't present in the other games. Now you could put them into the game. I'd rather have ce's beatdown ranges and have the sword for lunges. 

 

 

timestamp 1:17. He's not even looking at the person and is getting melee damage and the lunge. 

 

edit: just to show it's not that easy to melee in ce:

 

dude isn't even trying to juke me lmao

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Another problem is how much latency affects it. On higher latency, a longer melee lunge looks even longer on your screen. It's depressing.

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I feel like lunge also kills all potential for interesting close range battles, just look at Halo 3 AR battles as an example, where the main strategy is to run at the enemy in a straight line whilst holding down the trigger and then meleeing each other for a trade when within lunge distance. I can't think of anything more braindead than that... I'd like to see people able to crouch under and jump over a melee without without being fucked over by copious amounts of lunge, everyone has had that moment online where the other player has superman lunged at them from a ridiculous distance and I'd like to see that BS completely gone.

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if you have lunge at least make it so its not a free hit. you should lunge towards your aiming at (so if your cross hair is to right of enemy you will lunge to right of him) and finially your crosshair should be on him for the melee to connect. so if you see a guy running horizontally from you then you will have to aim infront of him like how you would lead a shot and then finially have your crosshair on him for the connect 

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32 minutes ago, boogerman said:

if you have lunge at least make it so its not a free hit. you should lunge towards your aiming at (so if your cross hair is to right of enemy you will lunge to right of him) and finially your crosshair should be on him for the melee to connect. so if you see a guy running horizontally from you then you will have to aim infront of him like how you would lead a shot and then finially have your crosshair on him for the connect 

I would be more ok with this than auto-aim lunge, however people would start using it for movement purposes and it would look ridiculous seeing people melee away from rockets and such.

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I think there should be a Lunge as long as you’re looking straight at them and if they crouch or jump you should have to look up or down 

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Nothing about H2’s combos require lunge. A BXR would work in H1 just fine. It’s an unnecessary crutch. H1 melees were completely fine.

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Melee lunges are not inherently bad. It's the complementary aim assist that makes it bad.

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On 4/3/2020 at 6:06 AM, ripharambe said:

Melee lunges are not inherently bad. It's the complementary aim assist that makes it bad.

Imagine if they removed it and people started flying last you if they missed. Be hilarious. Maybe single press is melee, double tap is lunge. But zero assist and lunge doesn't do more damage, just covers a gap and also has a cool down.

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It'd just become shitty movement tech that we'd all grow to hate. Plus it'd look so stupid, we'd be embarrassed to show/explain it to new players or viewers.

Lunge isn't worth finding a way to include. We really did start this franchise off with the perfect model. We should have never strayed from it.

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42 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

It'd just become shitty movement tech that we'd all grow to hate. Plus it'd look so stupid, we'd be embarrassed to show/explain it to new players or viewers.

Lunge isn't worth finding a way to include. We really did start this franchise off with the perfect model. We should have never strayed from it.

All I can imaging is trying to snipe someone and they melee lunge out the way and look absolutely ridiculous. It's like when the Isle of Nyne game dropped and players found it was faster to jump ALL the time so everyone was just jumping around and it looked pathetic.

Same as Dolphin Diving in Battlefield 2. It looks pathetic. I don't hate people for doing it, you basically HAD to do it or you lost 70%+ of gunfights but it was just such a pathetic look for new players. Jump into this sweet modern shooter, spawn in and some rabbit rocks up jumps and dives 3 times with a machine gun and kills you.

COOL GAME MAN. Literal case of "don't hate the player hate the game."

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I had a similar experience recently with PvZ Battle For Neighborville. I really liked Garden Warfare 1 and 2. This game decided to add sprint and completely cock up the aiming. So now when you open fire on someone, the result is always them taking off in a sprint and jumping repeatedly. The aiming is so awful that you can’t punish it.

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As the video above demonstrates, H2 is much more noob friendly than H1.  Why?  Because easy games sell more.  Bungie knew that if they put the same level of skill in H2 that they did in H1, kids would get discouraged and stop playing.  The game was so poorly received by many good H1 players that an actual website called halo2sucks.com was designed in response to how bad it was compared to H1.   Yes, you heard that correctly... a website was made for the sole purpose of talking about how bad a game was.  Can't say I've ever seen that before.

Strangepurple and many others shitting on halo 2:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080501102918/http://halo2sucks.com/mission.htm

Kids literally winning halo 2 tournaments and selling their xbox afterwards because they were so disgusted by how inferior the game was lol...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050526015713/http://halo2sucks.com/

https://web.archive.org/web/20080719163429/http://www.halo2sucks.com/

In H1, having a system that catered to noobs it wasn't as big of an issue because the game was not playable on xbox live.  So with regards to liking or disliking a lunge melee it doesn't matter to me because I would obviously never put myself in a position to play such a dumbed down, inferior version of halo in the first place. I played maybe 10 games of that pos back when it came out and never picked it up again. FPS console gaming through the internet in terms of high skill curve peaked with Halo CE on Xbox Connect.  For the most part, everything since then has just be a watered down version of halo CE designed to sell as many copies as possible by dumbing down the skill curve.

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I mean, Bungie had no fucking clue what they were doing with any of the Halo games. CE has it's skillgap entirely on accident, likewise for whatever Halo 2 has. The "game dumbed down for online noobs" argument just doesn't make sense. 

In Halo 2, if you do miss a lunge, it just accelerates you ahead by a little and plays the animation without doing any damage. The "fly past people if you miss" thing is really just exclusive to the energy sword lunges. 

Personally, tone down the magnetism to nil, keep the lunge distance low, and I'd be alright with it. Also, 3SK Melee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2SK Melee

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I'll make my own version of a h2 lunge melee work for me in CE.

It's not a problem.

Not even a charging OS will protect you from my h2 lunge melee skills.  Ask anyone. 

My charging melee > than your charging OS all day every day.

 

 

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I'm a bit late here, and no one else will probably respond to this thread, but here's my stand.

People dislike Melee Lunge because they don't want to magically teleport a few meters just to hit someone with the butt end of their weapon. Melee is an inherently defensive mechanic; it's supposed to be use to get someone off your face, not hurdle yours towards them. It's a stupid method of game design to have a mechanic act contrary to what it's supposed to be.

 

On 4/14/2020 at 12:21 PM, _Synapse said:

CE has it's skillgap entirely on accident...

Nonsense. The "accident" is that Bungie didn't realize players would take Halo seriously as a competitive MP game. Halo: CE being designed as it is wasn't the accident because Hardy Lebel and his team knew what they were doing.

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I don't dislike melee lunge but what I do dislike about the lunge is that it can vary based on connection. 

Shoot and then melee has been a normal part of Halo for a long time,  so any fights lost or won based on an unfair melee can be annoying. 

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I feel like anyone that would like it, is unlikely to have significant experience with a game that doesn't have it. The likely age and popular titles for the time period line up to where that's probably all they really played.

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13 hours ago, Hard Way said:

@chaosTheory hahaha damn dude, I miss havin you around.

That was like 20% of what I actually wanted to say on the subject. I ended up being late to something writing it lol 

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On 6/4/2020 at 6:06 AM, chaosTheory said:

That was like 20% of what I actually wanted to say on the subject. I ended up being late to something writing it lol 

Fighting the good fight. 

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