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Hard Way

What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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55 minutes ago, II AdamanT II said:

Am I recalling the wrong Halo, or didn't a forged Warlock exist for Reach but was dropped because of an issue with the portals spitting people out facing the wrong direction, or just not working at times? I want to say this was used at a bloom MLG event?

I forgot why exactly it was dropped so thanks for the history lesson. We're trying to avoid more remakes anyway but thank I'll keep it in mind. 

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12 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

There's also straight up weapon flinch from being shot. "Inverse" flinch, in that being shot at doesn't move you off target, it pushes you towards them. Pretty sure it affects every gun, but things like automatics make the process worse/quicker.

If someone doesn't post a video, I'll replicate it tomorrow, clip it, and post it here. But it's quite possibly one of the most insane things ever conceived. Insidious and genius at the same time. 

You sure? Like I don’t remember any flinch like that and if so it’s hardly noticeable. The only flinch to me that’s noticeable is halo reach sniper body shot flinch

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

You sure? Like I don’t remember any flinch like that and if so it’s hardly noticeable. The only flinch to me that’s noticeable is halo reach sniper body shot flinch

It’s for sure there. And very evident. Hauls ass on your reticle.

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2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It’s for sure there. And very evident. Hauls ass on your reticle.

THIS is the flinch i've been wanting to see. the other finch i was aware of. i'd love to see this

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16 minutes ago, Riddler said:

who has the gp game settings on their fileshare and whats ur gt.

Hex and I saved everything before the transfer. If you're talking about 360 then check "DojuDoju" and "Yoseph is Sik"

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12 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

Am I recalling the wrong Halo, or didn't a forged Warlock exist for Reach but was dropped because of an issue with the portals spitting people out facing the wrong direction, or just not working at times? I want to say this was used at a bloom MLG event?

It was definitely used. One of the earlier events. I wanna say it was in like v2 or something.

10 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Out of the loop - what's up with h5?

An excellent, community created playlist is coming out on Tuesday. If this is possible for H5, I have to believe a rotational Gold Pro could be possible for MCC.

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I don't think any of the mentioned maps would play Ball very well. Granted, it has not been tested that much, but even then I doubt much would come out of it. If we want a spot for the mode, I would reccomend enlisting some senior Forgers to point us towards some MLG Ball maps that went under the radar.

Warlock was in v4. It was replaced with Element in v5. I have no clue where any of this "Element was in a 1v1 playlist..." business came from, if anyone could fill me in on that feel free. If we are looking for a 4-way symm, Element is our best bet. However, if we are talking Slayer, I'm sure we could find something better.

For those who are still considering Warlock:

• It's a remake we've seen in comp a million times. We have more options now so I can't stand behind the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality (which might not even be valid because...)

• It has potential spawning and portal issues.

• The aesthetics are slightly outdated when put up to other Forge maps. It looks pretty ugly in some spots.

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1 hour ago, HeX Reapers said:

Warlock was in v4. It was replaced with Element in v5. I have no clue where any of this "Element was in a 1v1 playlist..." business came from, if anyone could fill me in on that feel free.

If I understand correctly it was in the 1v1 social match composer rotation in the last Reach flight and will probably be there in the full release as well.

Opinions on Element Ball? It's the only map I see it working on, it would be super hectic and less setup-oriented but that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

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13 hours ago, Hard Way said:

If this is possible for H5, I have to believe a rotational Gold Pro could be possible for MCC.

Awesome! Let's get it going. 

Does anyone know if yoseph is still around? Couldn't imagine a better person to lead this. 

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I am all for the addition of Assault - it's always been one of my favorite gametypes but one I also believe, given the right game i.e. Halo 2 (Midship Bomb), that requires a high level of team coordination to succeed in and thus makes for a great competitive gametype. 

My overall hope is that the professional players are not only open to changes but participate and give feedback. That and 343 coordinates to make the changes occur. 

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I don't think we should force ball into the settings if we don't have a proper map, I feel like non-setup ball maps are too slayer like so would rather get something more defined for the objective modes since we already get 6 TS maps.

Currently I my suggestion would be:
Sanc TS
Countdown TS
Battle Canyon TS
Penance TS
forgeworld TS (4-way sym?)
forgeworld TS (asym?)

Sanc CTF
Countdown CTF
Zealot CTF

Battle Canyon KoTH
Nexus KoTH
Powerhouse KoTH

Zealot Bomb
Oversoul Bomb

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A couple things from skimming this thread:

14 gametypes seems reasonable, but you definitely shouldn't force iffy maps/gametypes just to hit that mark. A repeat gametype or two in Bo7s is fine.

Slayer kinda sucks in every game, but NBNS Reach really puts a magnifying glass on its problems with probably the most limited movement in the series and the DMR which can completely lock down routes from across the map. If we could cut the number of slayers in a series down to 1 in a Bo5 and 1-2 in a Bo7 that would be amazing, but obviously it's tough to hit 14 gametypes with 4 slayers or less.

Sanc Bomb was the worst OBJ in H2A (Which tbh did Bomb pretty perfectly) and IMO the problems it had would only be worse in Reach. Nades are stronger, the DMR melts, and the MLG Sanc remake has noticeably more open site-lines. Using a better remake would address some of these problems, but I'd be happy if I never had to play Sanc bomb for money again.

I'm pretty sure I've talked to more people that liked Overgrowth in H5 than liked competing on Penance. Dammy doesn't seem to work without either small team sizes, or nading weapons, or both. And I don't think the extra lifts really help much either unfortunately.

If we're lucky, some of the forge updates will include teleporter fixes so we can use Warlock again. That maps was wasted on Bloom + Sprint Reach.

My suggestion would be:
For sure:
Sanc CTF
Pit CTF
Zealot CTF
Countdown CTF
Nexus KOTH
BC KOTH

Test:
Sanc TS (Ideally with dynamic spawns)
Zealot TS
Countdown TS
Element TS
Warlock TS
Retroactive CTF
Warlock CTF
Zealot Bomb
Warlock Bomb

Pls No:
Sanc Bomb
Pit TS
Penance

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1 hour ago, Warlord Wossman said:

I don't think we should force ball into the settings if we don't have a proper map, I feel like non-setup ball maps are too slayer like so would rather get something more defined for the objective modes since we already get 6 TS maps.

Currently I my suggestion would be:
Sanc TS
Countdown TS
Battle Canyon TS
Penance TS
forgeworld TS (4-way sym?)
forgeworld TS (asym?)

Sanc CTF
Countdown CTF
Zealot CTF

Battle Canyon KoTH
Nexus KoTH
Powerhouse KoTH

Zealot Bomb
Oversoul Bomb

I didn't mind oddball on zealot, oddball in general was okay, but that GOD DAMN ODDBALL doesnt stop rolling!

 

 

I remember dropping it on landing and chasing it down the streets on zealot

 

 

if were gonna have 343 fixing things, tell them to make the collision for the oddball not a sphere, so it doesn't roll away anymore. make it a box or something that doesn't roll! IF we end up using it that is.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

Opinions on Element Ball? It's the only map I see it working on, it would be super hectic and less setup-oriented but that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

IIRC, in the old MLG interview you posted earlier the map creator for Element said oddball played well on it, he just preferred setup-based gameplay to rotation-based gameplay. I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing and would like to test it out.

I'm also in favor of testing out Zealot Ball (and Warlock if the teleporters are fixed). If they don't play great that's fine, but I think they sound like options at least worthy of testing. We don't seem to have a lot of oddball options so I think testing these out would quickly tell us if oddball should can be included or not.

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3 hours ago, bunniesz23 said:

A couple things from skimming this thread:

14 gametypes seems reasonable, but you definitely shouldn't force iffy maps/gametypes just to hit that mark. A repeat gametype or two in Bo7s is fine.

Slayer kinda sucks in every game, but NBNS Reach really puts a magnifying glass on its problems with probably the most limited movement in the series and the DMR which can completely lock down routes from across the map. If we could cut the number of slayers in a series down to 1 in a Bo5 and 1-2 in a Bo7 that would be amazing, but obviously it's tough to hit 14 gametypes with 4 slayers or less.

Sanc Bomb was the worst OBJ in H2A (Which tbh did Bomb pretty perfectly) and IMO the problems it had would only be worse in Reach. Nades are stronger, the DMR melts, and the MLG Sanc remake has noticeably more open site-lines. Using a better remake would address some of these problems, but I'd be happy if I never had to play Sanc bomb for money again.

I'm pretty sure I've talked to more people that liked Overgrowth in H5 than liked competing on Penance. Dammy doesn't seem to work without either small team sizes, or nading weapons, or both. And I don't think the extra lifts really help much either unfortunately.

If we're lucky, some of the forge updates will include teleporter fixes so we can use Warlock again. That maps was wasted on Bloom + Sprint Reach.

My suggestion would be:
For sure:
Sanc CTF
Pit CTF
Zealot CTF
Countdown CTF
Nexus KOTH
BC KOTH

Test:
Sanc TS (Ideally with dynamic spawns)
Zealot TS
Countdown TS
Element TS
Warlock TS
Retroactive CTF
Warlock CTF
Zealot Bomb
Warlock Bomb

Pls No:
Sanc Bomb
Pit TS
Penance

I agree with all of this

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On 11/28/2019 at 8:59 AM, znot said:

The only way I see powerhouse working is if we treat it like MLG construct. There has to be a reason for people to go to these 'no man's land' areas of the maps. 

Powerhouse has a lot of areas that are pretty much no man's land. And if we don't MAKE people move around it will be a camp fest.

 

Construct for example uses every part of the map, basement has powerup, now ppl HAVE to go down once and a while to get it. Sniper spawns on the glass balcony, people HAVE to go get it so the other team doesn't. And  the main hill is located there

KOTH is another thing, you HAVE to go to the hill which is rotated all over the map, top and bottom.

 

Powerhouse needs this. There's needs to be a reason for me to leave the high ground of the map and go to the lower ground.

 

 

And sort of like Halo 4 abandon, where they put the custom power up/sniper ALL the way at the edge of the map. So ppl wouldn't just sit at the higher ground areas all game.

 

 

How do people feel about Construct? Watching H3 tournaments that map was usually never boring, and like how some people feel Pit is too flat, v7 Reach feels quite flat in general. On the other hand construct is totally vertical which would be unique in a hypothetical v8.

 

For that reason I forged a remake of it for v7 settings a couple of weeks ago. Due to forge budget limits, it is a little bare bones, missing a couple trick jumps and also there is a frame rate drop at bottom hill due to the ass end of the top of the map being all exposed, again due to forge budgets. The basement half of the map is also potentially a little wide compared to the top. From what I have read MCC forge will allow all of this to be fixed.

 

The main change I made is replacing purple lifts with one way portals, for two reasons. 1) Forge budget and more importantly 2) especially in Construct Hill, a team with control over especially the closed hill was traditionally very hard to displace due to purple lifters being stuck in limbo for 2-3 seconds and also telegraphing their position. With portals on the basement roof and also directly below at the original basement lift entrance the bottom team is given a little more room to take control of the map.

 

I've tested this in some lobbies and both Hill and TS run pretty well on v7 settings. Personally I don't have a problem with the gray issue for forge maps but I can understand why a half forge rotation can be offputting for some. I am very curious though to know what people think of construct generally, both in H3 and if you think it's viable for zbns Reach. If you want to take a look it's live on my fileshare at "Cowboy Flawless".

In its current state its clearly a draft given the tools of original Reach forge, so when MCC forge drops some of the finer details will be added. The core stuff is all there though and it runs basically as smoothly as a normal Nexus hill game would. Ideally I would replace BC Hill with Constuct given the chance but would really like to know what ppl think generally. If there's any forge heads on this forum i'd also be glad to know if there's places where I've wasted budget.

 

As far as Oddball goes, I've also thought about bringing Guardian over as well. But I think reach originals like Nexus are probably preferable or making maps like powerhouse work. (not for ball specifically but in general)

 

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1 hour ago, flawlesscowboy said:

How do people feel about Construct? 

As far as Oddball goes, I've also thought about bringing Guardian over as well. 

Pretty easy ways to get one to QTB.

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

@MultiLockOn, you know of any decent oddball maps for Reach? I feel like our problem here has more to do with lack of awareness than lack of options.

Why hasn’t anyone thought of damnnation ball? 

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9 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Why hasn’t anyone thought of damnnation ball? 

because the map probably doesn't feature multiple good setup regions, the lines of sight are not there and it's hard to nade top, the 2 way teleporter out of map zone would reset the ball

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5 hours ago, Hard Way said:

@MultiLockOn, you know of any decent oddball maps for Reach? I feel like our problem here has more to do with lack of awareness than lack of options.

I dipped tf out during Reach, can't stand that game. You'll wanna talk to @HeX Reapers or @a Chunk for Reach stuff, they're way more knowledgeable. 

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50 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

because the map probably doesn't feature multiple good setup regions, the lines of sight are not there and it's hard to nade top, the 2 way teleporter out of map zone would reset the ball

perfect time to bring back Halo 3 LOCKDOWN BALL FOR REACH!

 

:ace::ace:

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