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Hard Way

What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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I remember when Forgeworld was announced and I thought "the grey maps will be cool for competitive. It's like how all football games are played on the same green grass, we'll have all competitive Reach games played on the same stadium-grey."

The naitvity of youth.

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4 minutes ago, Basu said:

New forge pieces might bring some variety who knows. 

that and the fact that PC can basically take ANY asset and mod it into the forge library.

 

There's no limits. We could honestly probably inject a whole H3 map as a spawnable forge object. (just the geometry) 

 

only problem is parity with consoles. they probably wont be able to run the mods, though it could be possible.

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26 minutes ago, znot said:

that and the fact that PC can basically take ANY asset and mod it into the forge library.

 

There's no limits. We could honestly probably inject a whole H3 map as a spawnable forge object. (just the geometry) 

 

only problem is parity with consoles. they probably wont be able to run the mods, though it could be possible.

If Midship could be modded/rebuilt in Reach using legit covenant assets, and some of the housekeeping stuff like flinch and strafe and OS charge got addressed, fuck it we don't even need Halo 2 anymore.

But that's outside the scope of this thread, which as far as I can tell is about spiking any new angles or possible improvements to the settings - within the options already available to us, no less - for fear that they'll alienate an audience that isn't gonna give a shit anyway, while some people campaign to bring back some of the vanilla symmetrical forge maps that their buddies made back in the day, and only use those plus Zealot and Countdown. Killa KC and Tak are smiling in their graves.

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17 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

If Midship could be modded/rebuilt in Reach using legit covenant assets, and some of the housekeeping stuff like flinch and strafe and OS charge got addressed, fuck it we don't even need Halo 2 anymore.

But that's outside the scope of this thread, which as far as I can tell is about spiking any new angles or possible improvements to the settings - within the options already available to us, no less - for fear that they'll alienate an audience that isn't gonna give a shit anyway, while some people campaign to bring back some of the vanilla symmetrical forge maps that their buddies made back in the day, and only use those plus Zealot and Countdown. Killa KC and Tak are smiling in their graves.

What are your proposed 14 gametypes? I'm genuinely curious. 

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i have a feeling ill be looking back on this thread months from now wondering, "did we really think 343 would listen to any of this?"

 

 

Infinite flights are supposed to start this year, along with the rest of the MCC flights. I dont see reach getting much more support other than the routine bug fixes.

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14 minutes ago, Basu said:

What are your proposed 14 gametypes? I'm genuinely curious. 

I don't have 14 gametypes. I don't see any good reason to commit to a certain gametypes split before we even know what the best gametypes are. If three minute rockets and two minute powerups are going to continue to be the norm then this shit is going nowhere anyway.

Pick a map. Figure out a fair, but entertaining weapon configuration for it. Identify any and all gametypes that could possibly play well on it with the settings you have established. Test them with in a variety of scenarios (equally matched teams, but also test unbalanced teams to see how much of a shitshow it's going to be under suboptimal conditions). Anything that comes up as a winner, that's a gametype. Why limit yourself to Zealot CTF or Zealot Bomb as an "official" gametype, if you know that both will work?

Powerhouse and Dammy/Penance are two of the most engaging, entertaining maps in Reach. There's no reason they can't work. Anchor 9 has some hurdles it needs to get past, and also some dumb H3 kid biases (WTF I can sit at flag and not be shot from the 50 yard line, broken!!) going against it, but it's worth exhausting all options to make that one work too. If one flag/asymm flag has to be held out of a playlist due to lack of a tiebreak I sort of get that, but what's the problem in customs or at a tournament? Just set up a tiebreak gametype and play that.

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2 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Powerhouse and Dammy/Penance are two of the most engaging, entertaining maps in Reach. 

Hard disagree. The gameplay doesn't feel fluid on them at all.

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2 hours ago, znot said:

i have a feeling ill be looking back on this thread months from now wondering, "did we really think 343 would listen to any of this?"

 

 

Infinite flights are supposed to start this year, along with the rest of the MCC flights. I dont see reach getting much more support other than the routine bug fixes.

Infinite flights? Who said that? 

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I sure hope forge for reach doesn’t take too long to implement, because they have to work on h3 and h4 forge

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5 hours ago, znot said:

that and the fact that PC can basically take ANY asset and mod it into the forge library.

 

There's no limits. We could honestly probably inject a whole H3 map as a spawnable forge object. (just the geometry) 

 

only problem is parity with consoles. they probably wont be able to run the mods, though it could be possible.

Dint know if anyone has said this, but I wonder if modding can remove bullet magnetism as well. Maybe then kbm will have its own competitive setting.

4 hours ago, znot said:

i have a feeling ill be looking back on this thread months from now wondering, "did we really think 343 would listen to any of this?"

 

 

Infinite flights are supposed to start this year, along with the rest of the MCC flights. I dont see reach getting much more support other than the routine bug fixes.

Yeah I have a feeling that literally none of our tweaks to v7 will ever be realized because 343 and TOS won’t care for what’s less than a year of tournament play.

 

It honestly could just be better to go all out and create the most ideal settings anyways and hope it gains popularity because I feel like no ones gonna care enough to make a small adjustment.

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4 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I sure hope forge for reach doesn’t take too long to implement, because they have to work on h3 and h4 forge

Isn’t it releasing on Xbox on launch tho? Just not PC. As long as we can consistently transfer from Xbox to PC, it should be ok. It won’t be ideal but at least it’s something.

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3 minutes ago, andregr said:

Isn’t it releasing on Xbox on launch tho? Just not PC. As long as we can consistently transfer from Xbox to PC, it should be ok. It won’t be ideal but at least it’s something.

Dude we’re talking pc here obviously, also that’s only if people did that when the transfer was available. For those using a pc one time Xbox a count they will have to find a random joe and download maps from them. Kinda bullshit how h4 and reach have a system where you can look up a map and instantly download but nope h5&mcc not uh. 

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

Dude we’re talking pc here obviously, also that’s only if people did that when the transfer was available. For those using a pc one time Xbox a count they will have to find a random joe and download maps from them. Kinda bullshit how h4 and reach have a system where you can look up a map and instantly download but nope h5&mcc not uh. 

Yeah I agree it’s pretty bullshit. 343 doesn’t understand the importance of forge/custom games and a file share at all. I remember all the shit Halo 5 got for releasing without them, and all the shit mcc had for no file share as well. I’m expecting a shit ton of criticism tomorrow from average people because they probably didn’t get the memo that forge wasn’t on release.

 

Anyway, is the Xbox to PC transfer of files only a one time thing? If so that’s pretty shit as well. 

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15 minutes ago, andregr said:

Yeah I agree it’s pretty bullshit. 343 doesn’t understand the importance of forge/custom games and a file share at all. I remember all the shit Halo 5 got for releasing without them, and all the shit mcc had for no file share as well. I’m expecting a shit ton of criticism tomorrow from average people because they probably didn’t get the memo that forge wasn’t on release.

 

Anyway, is the Xbox to PC transfer of files only a one time thing? If so that’s pretty shit as well. 

No what you’re thinking is the maps a guy has from their 360 days, then transferring to their Xbox one via mcc. If they make a map on mcc Xbox then go play pc halo reach it’ll be there. 
there needs to be a file browser oh and a server browser. 343 acts like this is the hardest thing to fucking add! 
 

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46 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Dude we’re talking pc here obviously, also that’s only if people did that when the transfer was available. For those using a pc one time Xbox a count they will have to find a random joe and download maps from them. Kinda bullshit how h4 and reach have a system where you can look up a map and instantly download but nope h5&mcc not uh. 

the closest they have is the "find player" options. Idk if you're aware, but you have to know the GT of the map owner and hope it's even in their fileshare. 

Assuming you do know about that option, yeah, an actual MAP searching system would be better than having to remember the owner's gt and hope it's even uploaded.

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8 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

I don't have 14 gametypes. I don't see any good reason to commit to a certain gametypes split before we even know what the best gametypes are. If three minute rockets and two minute powerups are going to continue to be the norm then this shit is going nowhere anyway.

Pick a map. Figure out a fair, but entertaining weapon configuration for it. Identify any and all gametypes that could possibly play well on it with the settings you have established. Test them with in a variety of scenarios (equally matched teams, but also test unbalanced teams to see how much of a shitshow it's going to be under suboptimal conditions). Anything that comes up as a winner, that's a gametype. Why limit yourself to Zealot CTF or Zealot Bomb as an "official" gametype, if you know that both will work?

Powerhouse and Dammy/Penance are two of the most engaging, entertaining maps in Reach. There's no reason they can't work. Anchor 9 has some hurdles it needs to get past, and also some dumb H3 kid biases (WTF I can sit at flag and not be shot from the 50 yard line, broken!!) going against it, but it's worth exhausting all options to make that one work too. If one flag/asymm flag has to be held out of a playlist due to lack of a tiebreak I sort of get that, but what's the problem in customs or at a tournament? Just set up a tiebreak gametype and play that.

Good post. Now I see what you meant with "let's leave the MLG process of gametype selection behind please" 

3 hours ago, andregr said:

Dint know if anyone has said this, but I wonder if modding can remove bullet magnetism as well. Maybe then kbm will have its own competitive setting.

Yeah I have a feeling that literally none of our tweaks to v7 will ever be realized because 343 and TOS won’t care for what’s less than a year of tournament play.

 

It honestly could just be better to go all out and create the most ideal settings anyways and hope it gains popularity because I feel like no ones gonna care enough to make a small adjustment.

RRR and Bullet magnetism can be tweaked fairly easily at least that was the case in CE, H2V and Halo Online. Just again not on console obviously. 

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So i guess I had Killa KC's MLG v7 test version of Powerhouse in my file share when they did the transfer so if anyone needs that its in mine.

GT: Jazzy 

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2 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

For the love of God please take out Penance.

Everyone knows it’s current state is really bad, but is the map unsaveable? There’s quite a bit that could be changed, and it would fill a unique niche as a slayer map if we could save it.

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7 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Everyone knows it’s current state is really bad, but is the map unsaveable? There’s quite a bit that could be changed, and it would fill a unique niche as a slayer map if we could save it.

I haven't really played a version that works in Reach tbh. Not saying it can't work but I think someone would have to prove that it can work at this point with the V7 settings. Its just hard to actually challenge any position when the other team is on top of the map. Way harder than it is in CE because its not like you can peak and catch someone slipping a lot of the time you just get railed by 3-4 people if they're actually coordinated/set up due to every approach being visible from top green and the surrounding area. Team in the lead can just wait unless you want to start spawning camo/snipe inside red. Even that might be a problem since its easier to collapse onto red from up top than it is to watch for the other team doing that but at least it would convince people to leave for a few seconds. Doesn't help that every weapon/power up besides GL on the map is set up in a way so that people in green can just sit there and fuck on you if they decide to bait it

tl;dr though is just that its very hard to get that coordinated push going and even when you pull it off flawlessly you're all still taking lifts, fighting from downhill and standing in portals while the other team has a lot more cover/room to move. We REALLY need a real overshield for that map imo. Pushing 4 people with every advantage in the world with a slower ttk is just a nightmare on a map like that. 

Get ready to see a lot of standing still, burned camos, and maybe even rockets despawning before someone gets out there

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