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Hard Way

What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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What H3 maps have going for them is mostly how good they look, plus they work surprisingly well with the H3 BR in mind. Maps like Narrows and Construct would work in no other Halo game. Maybe Guardian will come back one day, but I doubt it will be good given that it would have to be stretched to hell and back for Halo Sprintfinite. Side note, I always thought it was totally dumb that HeH wasn't in H3 (but in three hitscan Halos if you count the H5 throwback remake) because outside of CE it's the only game such an open map could work in.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

What H3 maps have going for them is mostly how good they look, plus they work surprisingly well with the H3 BR in mind. Maps like Narrows and Construct would work in no other Halo game. Maybe Guardian will come back one day, but I doubt it will be good given that it would have to be stretched to hell and back for Halo Sprintfinite. Side note, I always thought it was totally dumb that HeH wasn't in H3 (but in three hitscan Halos if you count the H5 throwback remake) because outside of CE it's the only game such an open map could work in.

Yeah, it’s always interesting when maps are remade in halo. They either play better or worse(majority the time worse) but every now and then they play better. Lot of the h3 maps play horribly in other games. Heck’s 343 had to change the entire design of midship in halo 5 because simply making it bigger wouldn’t help.

we still don’t know if infinite will have sprint or in my hopes they go no sprint for 4s, and then sprint for btb and warzone. I know a good chunk of you don’t like the idea of this, since btb doesn’t need sprint to be good, but there’s obvious maps in halo that play better with sprint. Valhalla(and regardless of opinion if these maps are good to “you” the fact is majority of the halo fan base loves them) blood gulch(reach) sandtrap(plays better in h5 tbh) waterworks would play better with sprint tbh). yes there’s no mans lands, yes we’ve debated this before, but wouldn’t it be a better compromise? Like think about it people, we know 343 wouldn’t permanently remove sprint. But the only community in halo that wants sprint are BTB/warzone kids, so give them what they want. Give those whom play 4s what they want. There both sides are happy. Idk about you but one thing halo 4 did right we’re btb maps. But I bet they’d of played badly if sprint wasn’t around.

If you’re immediate response to everything is no, or what if? Then don’t bother. In reach going from V7 to a playlist with sprint is just fine, nothing wrong with that. This obsession with universal settings is what’s wrong. 

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19 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Yeah, it’s always interesting when maps are remade in halo. They either play better or worse(majority the time worse) but every now and then they play better. Lot of the h3 maps play horribly in other games. Heck’s 343 had to change the entire design of midship in halo 5 because simply making it bigger wouldn’t help.

Yeah there are old videos where the map is pretty much identical to the h3 and h2 version. 

Even has bubble on car 3...

It honestly looked WAY better and more faithful to the midship we got in the final release.

But yeah I can't imagine how ass it was when it played. I imagine the bubbles made killing ppl IMPOSSIBLE with the new abilties.

 

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You know what midship was lacking in its design?  More fucking lore, said no one ever.  

“It’s going to be forgotten.”  You were right Quinn.  

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1 hour ago, znot said:

Yeah there are old videos where the map is pretty much identical to the h3 and h2 version. 

Even has bubble on car 3...

It honestly looked WAY better and more faithful to the midship we got in the final release.

But yeah I can't imagine how ass it was when it played. I imagine the bubbles made killing ppl IMPOSSIBLE with the new abilties.

Yeah, it's a case where reimagining a map over 1:1 ripping it from a past game with different design philosophies worked out in the end, hardcore.

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15 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Pretend for a second that we could institute normal gravity outside on Anchor 9. How would you forge that area?

In this case I would break out the lift cheese, since standard player traits are completely unsuitable for navigating that part of the map without the gravity gimmick. I'd put man cannons in the middle elevated area that sent you over to the red and blue plat areas (plasma pistol spawns in default). I'm not so sure I'd set up return man cannons back to the middle, just because there's so little real estate to work with on those plats - one man cannon takes up like half of the ledge area, and you need landing space for the people coming in. Maybe align the man cannons with that behind-the-glass area that Basu is worried about so they don't interfere with combat, and then put soft-kills back there to cover the rest of it. Then I'd put standard grav lifts or small jump-ups at the base of the middle area, to replace the act of simply jumping up there in zero grav. And that's probably it.

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10 hours ago, Arlong said:

I can’t make the right opinion on anchor 9 since I rarely got a chance to play the map.  

It's really nothing special. Combat flows awkwardly toward the space side of the map (the other side is too exposed to realistically push across) and each base on either side is very camper friendly. Honestly very mediocre, really shouldn't be considered for competitive settings.

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If we can actually remove the gimmicky low-g and add some ramps to make the map flow better + power item placement it might be an acceptable map. Remember this is Reach disk maps we're talking about so the standard isn't exactly high. Some of the areas are actually competently designed and could offer interesting combat. I just wish the bases weren't that bunker-like.

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Just build arena maps that fit your needs.  No one wants to play powerhouse or anchor 9.  

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In my opinion, the best Reach maps are generally the ones with more open, free-flowing combat. Reach absolutely is a game that benefits from map design that encourages movement, and discourages stubborn, slow play. The best maps in Team Slayer are without a doubt in my mind: Unconquered, Ellul, Synapse, and Zealot. They're just so far above the rest, at least as far as default Reach is concerned.

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2 hours ago, TI Inspire said:

In my opinion, the best Reach maps are generally the ones with more open, free-flowing combat. Reach absolutely is a game that benefits from map design that encourages movement, and discourages stubborn, slow play. The best maps in Team Slayer are without a doubt in my mind: Unconquered, Ellul, Synapse, and Zealot. They're just so far above the rest, at least as far as default Reach is concerned.

This made me want to refresh my memory of these maps. I think we might want to look at some of these with fresh eyes and see if any of them might be suitable for Oddball. Unconquered looks kinda fun for it.

 

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3 hours ago, Boyo said:

Just build arena maps that fit your needs.  No one wants to play powerhouse or anchor 9.  

If it was up to me I'd cut most TS gametypes and have tons of forge maps, but you have to remember who we're working with here and who the target audience is. The number one complaint about the Reach circuit is still "forge maps are grey therefore bad". In 2011 people were unironically asking for all forge maps to be removed and having shit like Reflection, Hang Em and Priz added.

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On 11/30/2019 at 8:21 PM, MultiLockOn said:

I dipped tf out during Reach, can't stand that game. You'll wanna talk to @HeX Reapers or @a Chunk for Reach stuff, they're way more knowledgeable. 

Can't recall any good ball maps off the top of my head. Most forgers at that time were focused on building for Slayer and CTF. Not much attention was given to Oddball (and I think there generally wasn't a good understanding of what attributes a good ball map should have at that point). I'll give it some more thought and see if I can jog my memory...

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11 minutes ago, a Chunk said:

Can't recall any good ball maps off the top of my head. Most forgers at that time were focused on building for Slayer and CTF. Not much attention was given to Oddball (and I think there generally wasn't a good understanding of what attributes a good ball map should have at that point). I'll give it some more thought and see if I can jog my memory...

This is pretty much what I remember too, still have 300 map files floating around on my 360 but most asyms were for sprint slayer and not ball.

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I wouldn't worry about finding Ball maps unless/until Ball gets fixed. Literally no competitive player wants to play Ball in it's current state in Reach. People didn't design maps for it because the gametype is busted.

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If it was up to me I'd cut most TS gametypes and have tons of forge maps, but you have to remember who we're working with here and who the target audience is. The number one complaint about the Reach circuit is still "forge maps are grey therefore bad". In 2011 people were unironically asking for all forge maps to be removed and having shit like Reflection, Hang Em and Priz added.

If the target audience is players. They'd rather play forge maps than Reflection, Hang Em, Priz, or Penance for that matter (also in 2011 every forge map had some degree of framerate problems). Put forward the best settings possible and the select few who hate forge maps because they are monotone will get over it.

If the target audience is viewers, good luck trying to guess what they want. Just know people aren't going on Twitch and watching tournaments for games or settings they don't like

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Do you think the community would possibly be open to changing base player traits like strafe acceleration?  I could never get over how Reach felt like ice skating with higher speeds.

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35 minutes ago, Zdann said:

Do you think the community would possibly be open to changing base player traits like strafe acceleration?  I could never get over how Reach felt like ice skating with higher speeds.

Not possible with gametype settings.

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28 minutes ago, Sody91 said:

Isn't gold pro a mod though?.

Not really, it just takes advantage of hidden gametype settings to add ZB to all gametypes and make camo 45s. It's just a gametype basically.

On PC I'm pretty sure we can get a better strafe, but getting that on console might be more difficult. We'll see.

@Warlord Wossman already decided on a catchy name: Reach NBNSNFFS (no bloom no sprint no flinch fast strafe) settings.

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25 minutes ago, Sody91 said:

Isn't gold pro a mod though?.

Not really. The most modded thing about GP settings are the ZB gametypes for ones that never officially got ZB support. Either way, modded gametypes don't have any sort of options for strafe acceleration, it's something you'd need to mod the actual game for and such a thing would be incompatible with consoles.

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6 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Not really. The most modded thing about GP settings are the ZB gametypes for ones that never officially got ZB support. Either way, modded gametypes don't have any sort of options for strafe acceleration, it's something you'd need to mod the actual game for and such a thing would be incompatible with consoles.

What about 4sk though?. @Basu too. What I'm getting at is I don't see the harm in mods in the game, especially 4sk  and zero movement acceleration especially in this hitscan game. So long as they will work with console of course. 

 

The mlg  setrings are so different from title update already, I don't think anyone who was gonna be put off by them are gonna care if the dmr is 4shot or the movement is tighter.

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3 minutes ago, Sody91 said:

What about 4sk though?. @Basu too. What I'm getting at is I don't see the harm in mods in the game, especially 4sk  and zero movement acceleration especially in this hitscan game. So long as they will work with console of course. 

 

The mlg  setrings are so different from title update already, I don't think anyone who was gonna be put off by them are gonna care if the dmr is 4shot or the movement is tighter.

4sk is an interesting rounding situation with damage resistance and damage increase in the settings iirc but I could be wrong

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6 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

4sk is an interesting rounding situation with damage resistance and damage increase in the settings iirc but I could be wrong

Oh alright, I thought it was a mod. Well then we should still at least use 4sk. 

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