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Hard Way

What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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21 minutes ago, Noodle said:

Not sure about others, but I'm open to the idea of playing around with more after some testing, but think that it's a good idea to go this route as a basis of figuring out how to prioritize testing. I think it would be a more productive use of our time to test out things we need to round out a lineup first rather than blow a lot of time at the start trying to figure out which are the very best slayers or flags to use if we already have plenty of valid options.

I feel like extending the list from 11 gametypes to 14 is almost closer to making a new list than curating a current one and we should form this list in mind with tournament structure before trying to then curate it and select the very best from a bunch of valid options. MLG kept tournament structure in mind when forming its settings, if you look at the interview @Basuposted with the creators of Nexus and Element you see them mention that their maps weren't tested much for certain game modes because of the 11 map limit in place (a reflection of the gametypes being formed with tournament structure in mind).

Just about every iteration of MLG's settings/gametypes was roundly criticized when they came out, and they went through forge maps quicker than most people go through toilet paper, to the point that nobody except the people who built or helped test those maps knew what the hell they were playing. Why do you want to ape MLG's approach?

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16 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Just about every iteration of MLG's settings/gametypes was roundly criticized when they came out, and they went through forge maps quicker than most people go through toilet paper, to the point that nobody except the people who built or helped test those maps knew what the hell they were playing. Why do you want to ape MLG's approach?

People only hate forge because of the way it looks. It’s why we need a map editor 

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35 minutes ago, andregr said:

I think Reach is the way to go because of all the new and returning players coming to view the scene because that’s all PC players will be able to play for the time being.

 

on that last part, I think that’s why we’ve had this theme of making the changes only to build upon v7 and make any tweaks reasonable. So hopefully these aren’t too much of changes, so they can quickly be tested and implemented.

oh fair point as well. keep forgetting about the release order

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40 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Off topic We need more zero bloom playlist. Idk about you, but I’d like to play some regular stuff with radar but zero bloom 

The entire game being nb  would be the dream. I don't mind the loadots for the casual modes. Also yeah ow has zero movement acceleration; I've never played apex so couldn't  tell you about that.

 

@Hard Way why can't we have 4sk dmr  when that already  works on Xbox?.

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

Potential Gametypes

  • Nexus Ball

I need to disagree here. Ball needs a certain type of map to play well. It either needs a map where a setup is weak to impossible, and you're expected to rotate the ball (Midship, Lockdown, etc), or an asymmetrical setup-based map that allows you to play ball (Lockout/Guardian). If you don't have one of those two things, you get a map where the ball gets taken to a certain spot, and it stays there the whole game. If we had reverse tag, this wouldn't be an issue, but sadly nobody ever wanted to bring that forward out of H1.

1 hour ago, Snipe Three said:

Removing that flinch aspect really is a good thing for the game. That totally is something that could be suggested to 343 should they ever be willing to help us. 

 I do not think sanc bomb should replace CTF because specifically bomb games on that map can be dragged out and into replay OVER AND OVER and fixing that would require work that we might not get away with. Sanc bomb is just a very low scoring gametype

Oddball could be a great addition on warlock or lockout should we be unable to find another way to play it. I think having an oddball map is the easy new addition as long as it works. Warlock is probably the vote here since there is an MLG version floating around for that map already somewhere with a proper layout and spawns

I'm totally down for asking for flinch to be removed. In that respect, Ice is correct. It's a stupid mechanic with no reason to exist, and the game would be better without it. I can bring it up in the Reclaimers discord and post some video proof of it, and see if we can get it patched out. But the notion that it's worth removing the sniper rifle from competitive play is outright laughable, and it gets in the way of otherwise productive discourse.

Regarding Sanc Bomb, I remember how low scoring it was in both Reach and H2A. But I also remember it being pretty intense. What if we reduced the arm time from 5s to 3s? Would that not fix the problem?

I know it's personal preference, but I'm just so tired of remakes. I know I'm not alone either. We have the world at our fingertips here. We can ask for anything. Why not try Element Ball instead of Warlock Ball? It'd probably work similarly, but at least it'd be new.

59 minutes ago, Basu said:

Sanc Bomb is very prone to 0-0 from what I remember.

See above. Reducing the arm time should solve this.

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7 minutes ago, Sody91 said:

The entire game being nb  would be the dream. I don't mind the loadots for the casual modes. Also yeah ow has zero movement acceleration; I've never played apex so couldn't  tell you about that.

 

@Hard Way why can't we have 4sk dmr  when that already  works on Xbox?.

It's not that we can't have it, it's that it's too big of a change to ask for. I think GoldPro would need to be a rotational playlist before it would get the level of support it needs to take over as competitive settings.  Any community effort on behalf of GoldPro should go towards cultivating and requesting a rotational playlist first.

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12 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I need to disagree here. Ball needs a certain type of map to play well. It either needs a map where a setup is weak to impossible, and you're expected to rotate the ball (Midship, Lockdown, etc), or an asymmetrical setup-based map that allows you to play ball (Lockout/Guardian). If you don't have one of those two things, you get a map where the ball gets taken to a certain spot, and it stays there the whole game. If we had reverse tag, this wouldn't be an issue, but sadly nobody ever wanted to bring that forward out of H1.

I'm totally down for asking for flinch to be removed. In that respect, Ice is correct. It's a stupid mechanic with no reason to exist, and the game would be better without it. I can bring it up in the Reclaimers discord and post some video proof of it, and see if we can get it patched out. But the notion that it's worth removing the sniper rifle from competitive play is outright laughable, and it gets in the way of otherwise productive discourse.

Regarding Sanc Bomb, I remember how low scoring it was in both Reach and H2A. But I also remember it being pretty intense. What if we reduced the arm time from 5s to 3s? Would that not fix the problem?

I know it's personal preference, but I'm just so tired of remakes. I know I'm not alone either. We have the world at our fingertips here. We can ask for anything. Why not try Element Ball instead of Warlock Ball? It'd probably work similarly, but at least it'd be new.

See above. Reducing the arm time should solve this.

Good points I'll edit accordingly. 

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2 hours ago, andregr said:

-Bweh-

Lowest of keys. Why the hell is there so much Slayer, lol. We have a good amount of objective gametypes to hypothetically base a good amount of matches off objective only.

1 hour ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Bad idea imo, a map pool exists to bring in variety to begin with. Personally got bored with the 11 gametypes on the 7 maps in the v7 playlist rather fast,and would welcome settings with 10 or so maps. ZBNS already is a different game to some extent so people won't know how it plays without testing themselves in the playlist.
Also with the 2 best of 7 series you literally get the same exact maps in both series which is boring even if they use a different gametype, good teams should be able to do well on all kind of maps and a pool with more variety is a better test for that.

Likewise, with that said. I don't think we should base implementation on entertainment value alone, or, rather, at all. Just competitive merit. Ideally, we'd have the best of the best, nothing else. It's competitive, after all. Could be just a cycle of two maps and a single gametype for all I care, just as long as it's good. Variety gets us shit like Echelon, or Fissure. Never want it to play a part in map/gametype inclusion.

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44 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I need to disagree here. Ball needs a certain type of map to play well. It either needs a map where a setup is weak to impossible, and you're expected to rotate the ball (Midship, Lockdown, etc), or an asymmetrical setup-based map that allows you to play ball (Lockout/Guardian). If you don't have one of those two things, you get a map where the ball gets taken to a certain spot, and it stays there the whole game. If we had reverse tag, this wouldn't be an issue, but sadly nobody ever wanted to bring that forward out of H1.

I'm totally down for asking for flinch to be removed. In that respect, Ice is correct. It's a stupid mechanic with no reason to exist, and the game would be better without it. I can bring it up in the Reclaimers discord and post some video proof of it, and see if we can get it patched out. But the notion that it's worth removing the sniper rifle from competitive play is outright laughable, and it gets in the way of otherwise productive discourse.

Regarding Sanc Bomb, I remember how low scoring it was in both Reach and H2A. But I also remember it being pretty intense. What if we reduced the arm time from 5s to 3s? Would that not fix the problem?

I know it's personal preference, but I'm just so tired of remakes. I know I'm not alone either. We have the world at our fingertips here. We can ask for anything. Why not try Element Ball instead of Warlock Ball? It'd probably work similarly, but at least it'd be new.

See above. Reducing the arm time should solve this.

Element can totally be tried I was just saying that if nothing else Warlock is the backup plan.
 

This is a 3 second arm time at 1:26. That's 5 bomb and pretty different than H2A

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1 minute ago, Snipe Three said:

Element can totally be tried I was just saying that if nothing else Warlock is the backup plan.
 

think this is a 3 second arm time

Oh Christ, they're playing to FIVE?!

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1 minute ago, Snipe Three said:

Yeah Reach with bloom and AAs was kind of wild lol

It was def 3s. I found an arm and counted. I don't see why that wouldn't work with ZBNS to 3.

That said, I'd rather see Countdown switch to Assault than Sanc, just bc it'd be new.

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50 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Lowest of keys. Why the hell is there so much Slayer, lol. We have a good amount of objective gametypes to hypothetically base a good amount of matches off objective only.

You know what? I agree with this, I don’t think there should be near as much slayer. In fact, I’d be down to remove it completely, but it doesn’t really seem like most people would agree with that let alone having 343 approve it.

 

but thinking about it seriously, 6 slayer maps isn’t too much and it’s fine imo.

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Just now, andregr said:

You know what? I agree with this, I don’t think there should be near as much slayer. In fact, I’d be down to remove it completely, but it doesn’t really seem like most people would agree with that let alone having 343 approve it.

Sure, they wouldn't agree. I'd still argue a playlist meant to be the best it could be with tourney settings shouldn't be adhering to what people want, as much as what is optimal. But that's just me. And I'd still argue for it on that merit just so the idea's maybe planted in their heads at the least.

On that note, I also find a bloat of stuff to be equally as hazardous. Saw something like 14(?) gametype/map combos planned. It's a tad irrelevant but I also feel there is a such thing as too much. People have to practice and play this after all.

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11 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Are we sure Countdown bomb is any good?

We're not. Like anything getting suggested here we need to test it.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I'm totally down for asking for flinch to be removed. In that respect, Ice is correct. It's a stupid mechanic with no reason to exist, and the game would be better without it. I can bring it up in the Reclaimers discord and post some video proof of it, and see if we can get it patched out. But the notion that it's worth removing the sniper rifle from competitive play is outright laughable, and it gets in the way of otherwise productive discourse.

 

Can I see this flinch? any video I can watch? 

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1 hour ago, znot said:

Can I see this flinch? any video I can watch? 

In reach when a sniper shoots you in the body the character flinches down.  Causing you to adjust your aim during that moment. 

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6 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Any community effort on behalf of GoldPro should go towards cultivating and requesting a rotational playlist first.

Would anybody else much rather go for this over Reach v7.5? 

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59 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Would anybody else much rather go for this over Reach v7.5? 

If it meant we could mod weapons, yes, but I also don't see why we can't do both.

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

In reach when a sniper shoots you in the body the character flinches down.  Causing you to adjust your aim during that moment. 

There's also straight up weapon flinch from being shot. "Inverse" flinch, in that being shot at doesn't move you off target, it pushes you towards them. Pretty sure it affects every gun, but things like automatics make the process worse/quicker.

5 hours ago, znot said:

Can I see this flinch? any video I can watch? 

If someone doesn't post a video, I'll replicate it tomorrow, clip it, and post it here. But it's quite possibly one of the most insane things ever conceived. Insidious and genius at the same time. 

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1 hour ago, Aphex Twin said:

Would anybody else much rather go for this over Reach v7.5? 

I would say most people on here are open to trying goldpro over v7/8 but u gotta get the streamers on board. people LOVE playing what they're good at. 

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9 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Would anybody else much rather go for this over Reach v7.5? 

There's no reason both can't happen. Come Tuesday, this won't be unprecedented. Might wanna peek your head into H5 at some point that day.

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20 hours ago, Basu said:

Warlock TS/Ball/Bomb

Am I recalling the wrong Halo, or didn't a forged Warlock exist for Reach but was dropped because of an issue with the portals spitting people out facing the wrong direction, or just not working at times? I want to say this was used at a bloom MLG event?

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