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What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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On 12/12/2019 at 7:26 PM, Snipe Three said:

In which game? I'd say in every game that their guns shoot straight there is either insane magnetism, a bad strafe and/or the aiming is literally broken. I'd say in principle they should've done better than bungie but then they fumble the execution every single time

In particular Halo 5. But just in general I find shooting the utility weapon less aggravating in 4/2A. Don’t get wrong it’s not perfect, like you said over compensating with the auto aim makes the guns stupid easy to shoot. BUT I would rather that, then dealing with the pre patch H2 BR which was a shotgun at any range, and the H3 BR inconsistentency.

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On 12/12/2019 at 6:48 PM, ILJC1992 said:

It’s not wrong to admit 343 did pure gun play better. More consistent utility weapons, with none of bungie bullet spread BS.

...

so h2a? cuz all the h4 utilities have spread or bloom and only the pistol in h5 has no spread (which is good dont get me wrong). and im not even sure on h2a. But they literally patched the h5 br to have spread. Clearly 343 don't have their head on straight as much as you think in regards to no spread/bloom BS. 

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Just now, Riddler said:

...

so h2a? cuz all the h4 utilities have spread or bloom and only the pistol in h5 has no spread. and im not even sure on h2a. 

The H4 DMR was so stupid good that they needed to patch the BR giving it a buff to compete. Yes it had bloom. But unless you’re Cratos spamming the shit out of it. It’s bloom reset it like a couple milliseconds and could be managed very easily. As for the BR the spread really only effected long range engagements in BTB (to be fair that was H4s bread and butter) shooting across the map in simplex, or abandoned those medium sized 4v4 maps were more consistentence. 

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4 hours ago, ILJC1992 said:

The H4 DMR was so stupid good that they needed to patch the BR giving it a buff to compete. Yes it had bloom. But unless you’re Cratos spamming the shit out of it. It’s bloom reset it like a couple milliseconds and could be managed very easily. As for the BR the spread really only effected long range engagements in BTB (to be fair that was H4s bread and butter) shooting across the map in simplex, or abandoned those medium sized 4v4 maps were more consistentence. 

this some rose tinted glasses because the bloom on the dmr mattered. pace your shot? do we really need to have this convo? with max rof it has a longer kill time than the BR. and vs other dmr users, they could just spam and get "lucky" >50% of the time so you are forced to spam every time.  br spread mattered as well but yeah no descope mitigated it, doesnt give it an excuse to exist. 

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35 minutes ago, Riddler said:

this some rose tinted glasses because the bloom on the dmr mattered. pace your shot? do we really need to have this convo? with max rof it has a longer kill time than the BR. and vs other dmr users, they could just spam and get "lucky" >50% of the time so you are forced to spam every time.  br spread mattered as well but yeah no descope mitigated it, doesnt give it an excuse to exist. 

The Bloom was different between Reach and Halo 4. Even at the full spam the inner circle (The actual reticle) never exceeds the larger circle. At its worst Halo Reach without the TU (full bloom). The inner circle leaves its the larger outer circle after a single spammed shot (second shot following the initial firing of the DMR) the 85% TU bloom becomes inaccurate after two full speed shots. Combined that with Halo 4 having the bloom snap back to 100% accuracy faster then either Out of box Reach, or the title update DMR. And you have a gun that’s more accurate for a longer time, at greater distance, with a way less punishing down side to not spamming the rifle. 
 

and again I’m not defending the Reach implementation of Bloom. I’m saying that 343 did it better. You can spam and find success. Or....
 

https://youtu.be/cUESWKuEh3M

 

this happens. Maven and Ghandi called it a choke because unlike Reach whiched harshly punished timing a shot. With the mechanics of H4 a single millisecond of slowed shots would’ve enabled Cratos to get the kill.

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I don't know if linking a near unwatchable video where cratos misses and shoots above someone for it is something I would really put up as an example of anything

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3 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I don't know if linking a near unwatchable video where cratos misses and shoots above someone for it is something I would really put up as an example of anything

It’s called a joke. You ignored the paragraph above that.

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This discussion has gone off track into a DMR/BR debate, the only attempt I've seen to schedule testing had no responses, the Discord is quiet, and the closest thing we had to a leader here hasn't been around since that failed attempt to schedule testing.

It looks like v8 isn't happening, do we want to at least try to test out a new Penance or replacement for it (Element?) to make it more tolerable or should we just stick to bitching about it and demanding change without presenting tested alternatives?

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31 minutes ago, Noodle said:

This discussion has gone off track into a DMR/BR debate, the only attempt I've seen to schedule testing had no responses, the Discord is quiet, and the closest thing we had to a leader here hasn't been around since that failed attempt to schedule testing.

It looks like v8 isn't happening, do we want to at least try to test out a new Penance or replacement for it (Element?) to make it more tolerable or should we just stick to bitching about it and demanding change without presenting tested alternatives?

We can't do much about it if people don't feel like playing custom games. I had some stuff prepared on xbox but with 2 or 3 people we simply cannot test 4v4 maps.

That said I am not super interested anymore as playing modded on PC is orders of magnitude more fun and most of those changes are impossible for console and v8 anyways, Halo never was a game balanced for comp pvp, it was always about driving around with your friends in a warthog or ramming elephants on sandtrap into each other. Sure Halo 5 might have tried something here and there but at the end of the day competitive will happen anyways if they throw enough money on the tournaments, doesn't mean the devs or the playerbase are interested in setting that play well for said competitiion.

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2 hours ago, Noodle said:

This discussion has gone off track into a DMR/BR debate, the only attempt I've seen to schedule testing had no responses, the Discord is quiet, and the closest thing we had to a leader here hasn't been around since that failed attempt to schedule testing.

It looks like v8 isn't happening, do we want to at least try to test out a new Penance or replacement for it (Element?) to make it more tolerable or should we just stick to bitching about it and demanding change without presenting tested alternatives?

People would rather complain about Penance and Creek on reddit/twitter for the rest of their lives than ever use a few of their braincells to make some suggestions how the settings could be improved or *gasp* actually show up and test some settings. v7 will be the final Reach comp settings in MM. Just like H3 v8 still has some absolute dogshit maps and gametypes in there despite the existence of some damn good forge maps on Sandbox.

It also doesn't help that thanks to the comp settings in the last decade+ of Halo we can't ever use an item timer that is lower than 120s. Or add an asymmetrical map to the rotation that isn't a remake.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

People would rather complain about Penance and Creek on reddit/twitter for the rest of their lives than ever use a few of their braincells to make some suggestions how the settings could be improved or *gasp* actually show up and test some settings. v7 will be the final Reach comp settings in MM. Just like H3 v8 still has some absolute dogshit maps and gametypes in there despite the existence of some damn good forge maps on Sandbox.

It also doesn't help that thanks to the comp settings in the last decade+ of Halo we can't ever use an item timer that is lower than 120s. Or add an asymmetrical map to the rotation that isn't a remake.

my friend and I had a discussion that putting a window in the purple room would give the attacking team a better chance to fight against purple.

0a479c4d1e3a5b89546bee3a7bd5f4eb.png d527573b4df03fb6fcf39963b125bee4.png

 

I think our reasoning was to put a lift there at the wall or leave it as is to allow the attackers to shoot onto purple  and maybe drop back without getting melted and have some cover to get health back.

 

Tho it may be too much.

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Gold pro has a wall like that just on the other side. I dont think its too much. I dont think green has to be this position you hold and the other tries to break

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2 hours ago, znot said:

my friend and I had a discussion that putting a window in the purple room would give the attacking team a better chance to fight against purple.

0a479c4d1e3a5b89546bee3a7bd5f4eb.png d527573b4df03fb6fcf39963b125bee4.png

 

I think our reasoning was to put a lift there at the wall or leave it as is to allow the attackers to shoot onto purple  and maybe drop back without getting melted and have some cover to get health back.

 

Tho it may be too much.

This is exactly what I was looking at in forge a week or two ago. I was also considering using boxes instead so you could kind of jump or get a nade off in either direction. I think it could help but I think the real power position in Reach is pushed up slightly out of green as long as you're blocking spawns and still checking so I think in the end it may not change too much

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18 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

This is exactly what I was looking at in forge a week or two ago. I was also considering using boxes instead so you could kind of jump or get a nade off in either direction. I think it could help but I think the real power position in Reach is pushed up slightly out of green as long as you're blocking spawns and still checking so I think in the end it may not change too much

Would putting a jet pack in a more easily accessible area. So that the team on the bottom of the map could get up easier? And maybe a wall slightly down the portal bridge so that sniper can just stop people without much of a fight?

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8 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

Would putting a jet pack in a more easily accessible area. So that the team on the bottom of the map could get up easier? And maybe a wall slightly down the portal bridge so that sniper can just stop people without much of a fight?

I think jetpack should be where health pack is in portal room.... Opposite the lift

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3 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

This is exactly what I was looking at in forge a week or two ago. I was also considering using boxes instead so you could kind of jump or get a nade off in either direction. I think it could help but I think the real power position in Reach is pushed up slightly out of green as long as you're blocking spawns and still checking so I think in the end it may not change too much

I would like to first play a version of Penance with: 

 

Rockets in pit

GL at shotty(potential to remain red plat) 

Camo top mid 

 

Simply to see how this changes the dynamic of play before map geometry changes are made. The real utility in green is sitting pipes to watch sweaty and shotty plat, with a snipe in green watching port - the snipe is the particularly egregious part of the gameplay imo. 

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1 minute ago, Obnokshus said:

I would like to first play a version of Penance with: 

 

Rockets in pit

GL at shotty(potential to remain red plat) 

Camo top mid 

 

Simply to see how this changes the dynamic of play before map geometry changes are made. The real utility in green is sitting pipes to watch sweaty and shotty plat, with a snipe in green watching port - the snipe is the particularly egregious part of the gameplay imo. 

Can't do the camo top mid. It would be like Halo CE if the bottom team couldn't nade camo. At best you would force the team with green control to burn the camo and they don't need more help up there than they've already got

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5 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Can't do the camo top mid. It would be like Halo CE if the bottom team couldn't nade camo. At best you would force the team with green control to burn the camo and they don't need more help up there than they've already got

I can agree to that. Unfortunately outside of extreme examples like halo 4's sniper on abandoned, I am unsure how to justify a map with areas like rocket pit and OS bridge with a utility weapon this game has - I dont know if anything can be done to redeem those areas

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6 hours ago, Basu said:

It also doesn't help that thanks to the comp settings in the last decade+ of Halo we can't ever use an item timer that is lower than 120s. Or add an asymmetrical map to the rotation that isn't a remake.

This is the number one issue as far as I'm concerned. 3 minute rockets/2 minutes powerups is simply a non-starter. I don't give a fuck about appealing to the sensibilities of idiot H3 kid streamers. Those weapon timers, plus the bland-as-shit maps you have to use just to make it work under those conditions = bad game, don't even bother showing up.

The other issue, as far as my participation in this, is that I don't have this game on PC and don't plan on getting it in the near future. Lack of crossplay hurts since it seems like just about everyone else is on PC and would rather play there. Add that to an already busy schedule for me working non 9-5 hours and being completely unavailable on weekends = tough to set up or make scheduled testing sessions.

Last but not least, Reach is just boring. Even in hardcore. Honestly. I've booted up matchmaking several times and every time I end up switching to a different game, usually Halo 1, before I've even played 5 matches. It just recently hit me that the only prolonged fun I ever had with this game at all during its original run was the GP 2v2 customs I used to play with Yoseph, Linguini, and friends on the annv maps plus forged Chill Out and a couple of other maps. And the only reason those settings even existed was to better replicate Halo 1, which was simply unavailable at the time. Now I have Halo 1 right here on the same disc and I have matchmaking for it, so what am I doing messing around in an inferior section of the game?

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39 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Can't do the camo top mid. It would be like Halo CE if the bottom team couldn't nade camo. At best you would force the team with green control to burn the camo and they don't need more help up there than they've already got

I think that damn snipe drop down needs to go. It's pretty hard already having 3 doors to be aware of, but one top of that we have to be aware of a kid on top of us looking down on us...

 

you know this room/drop down, add a wall up top so NO MORE DROPPING DOWN

Halo_Damn_3.jpg

This way it only gives the person up top one place to drop, rather than dropping behind the rock wall and into the snipe room.

 

 

Now they have to drop towards the center where CAMO lift is.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I shouldnt have to worry about 3 doors and above my head.

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HOLY FUCKING REACH HITBOX

 

0638f5cb88cb5025b87daf12c5021806.jpgFUCK REACH. Game is a joke

I think hitboxes need to be adjusted. tryna stay on topic here.

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We get it, aim assist is insane on MCC PC.

No-one who makes decisions or gives feedback to those people read this forum so it's not worth trying to convince people about it.

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