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Hard Way

What changes should be made to Reach's competitive settings going forward?

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6 hours ago, Basu said:

Someone posted this thread on /r/CompetitiveHalo/ and got two comments, one of which said " Why are we investing our time into altering Reach’s lineup?". People love to complain about penance and BC on there, but no one wants to actually improve the settings.

Waypoint? What a joke lol.

Twitter might work, but we need someone like Moses or Vetoed to actually tweet it out or it will just get lost.

You gotta deal with the fools sometimes my man. Then ask veto. Dudes like the coolest guy ever.  Come on he’s a brotha and he’s got an Afro, he’s cool by default. 

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On 11/30/2019 at 10:51 PM, Hard Way said:

Please no more remakes. We don't need them. We have a chance to be creative and we should use it.

Edit:  Pretend for a second that we could institute normal gravity outside on Anchor 9. How would you forge that area?

Anchor 9 is my jam but I don't think there is enough space to save the zero g area. Top 10 Halo map tragedies.

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14 hours ago, Basu said:

Someone posted this thread on /r/CompetitiveHalo/ and got two comments, one of which said " Why are we investing our time into altering Reach’s lineup?". People love to complain about penance and BC on there, but no one wants to actually improve the settings.

Waypoint? What a joke lol.

Twitter might work, but we need someone like Moses or Vetoed to actually tweet it out or it will just get lost.

Because unlike H3 which had a consistent base (speed shield bleed through shot etc). Reach had a dramatic altering of the meta with the intro of the title update and a bunch of classic H1 maps. We may as well have called V7 Halo Reach NSNB v1. By the way has anyone looked into the AGL maps and setting for that tournament they held just before H4

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And has anyone been experimenting with 85% (TU update DMR) NSNB. It feels pretty similar to the Halo 4/5 DMR which punished spamming while not incentivizing each gunfight to devolve pray to RNG that your shots find target before the other guys

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5 hours ago, ILJC1992 said:

And has anyone been experimenting with 85% (TU update DMR) NSNB. It feels pretty similar to the Halo 4/5 DMR which punished spamming while not incentivizing each gunfight to devolve pray to RNG that your shots find target before the other guys

We played different games 

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14 hours ago, Infinity said:

Anchor 9 is my jam but I don't think there is enough space to save the zero g area. Top 10 Halo map tragedies.

I always felt like if they gave us a version with normal gravity, if we just added catwalks or something on the top level of the outside area it would be good to go.

I never understood how we never found a way to use that map.

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8 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Remind me again why spamming needs to be punished?

It doesn't, but if bloom were to exist at all (not saying it should), then you'd expect spamming to be punished to signify the mechanic's importance.

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11 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Remind me again why spamming needs to be punished?

You’re not really aiming your shots when you spam. You may as well be playing COD no ADSing. You’re pointing in the general direction of your opponent and praying your shots hit.

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1 minute ago, ILJC1992 said:

You’re not really aiming your shots when you spam. You may as well be playing COD no ADSing. You’re pointing in the general direction of your opponent and praying your shots hit.

You just described bloom.

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3 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

You just described bloom.

That’s my point. Bloom shouldn’t be random. 

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21 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

That’s my point. Bloom shouldn’t be random. 

Non random bloom is a recoil pattern. Halo never has been about recoil management, it's about shooting, moving, and throwing grenades.  

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28 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

You’re not really aiming your shots when you spam. You may as well be playing COD no ADSing. You’re pointing in the general direction of your opponent and praying your shots hit.

Jesus dude, he's asking you why firing at max rate of fire should have any penalty to accuracy. Why not just allow your bullets to hit exactly where you're aiming, regardless of how fast you're shooting? Why try to enforce an artificially optimal rate of fire, when you could just program the actual rate of fire to be what you want it to be?

Bloom on precision weapons adds nothing good to the game. "Spamming" should just be shooting. That's it. We're done.

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8 minutes ago, Obnokshus said:

Non random bloom is a recoil pattern. Halo never has been about recoil management, it's about shooting, moving, and throwing grenades.  

Halo 1 had an almost bloom level of bullet spread. H2 was so bad they needed to update the BR to make it useable. H3 was probably the best with spread. But even that, a long range fight was virtually impossible, especially online. Bungie was always trying to make a “bloom" mechanic work. Never did. 343 did with H4 and H5. With the DMR being OP in H4 till the buff to the BR and in 5 it was as good as you could get. Which is why I said maybe try the 85% bloom. As it feels similar to the H4 and H5 DMR. But from a little more play. It does devolve into spam fights. 

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8 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Jesus dude, he's asking you why firing at max rate of fire should have any penalty to accuracy. Why not just allow your bullets to hit exactly where you're aiming, regardless of how fast you're shooting? Why try to enforce an artificially optimal rate of fire, when you could just program the actual rate of fire to be what you want it to be?

Bloom on precision weapons adds nothing good to the game. "Spamming" should just be shooting. That's it. We're done.

The DMR and especially the pistol were designed with Bloom in mind. That’s why when you play Reach NSNB we get these stupid fast time to kills speeds, that are either around the perfect H1 3 shot (DMR) or flatout faster (Pistol) you can’t take out a core design idea of the game and expect it not to change the weapon balance. Simple as that.

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1 minute ago, ILJC1992 said:

The DMR and especially the pistol were designed with Bloom in mind. That’s why when you play Reach NSNB we get these stupid fast time to kills speeds,

Literally clueless.

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41 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

you can’t take out a core design idea of the game and expect it not to change the weapon balance. Simple as that.

You can when the idea is inherently stupid to begin with. Adding an RNG element to shooting, in a first person shooter, is basically the stupidest thing I can think of unless it's done intelligently like it was in CE. If you want to use projectile instead of hitscan, use damage falloff, or in other games use recoil, that's all fine. But to say to the player we're going to punish you, even though your raw mechanical aim was perfect, because you were shooting too fast, is so backwards it almost hurts to think about. 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't been playing that much reach lately, but isn't the kill time of a DMR 5 shot still slower that a BR 4 shot? 

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32 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

The DMR and especially the pistol were designed with Bloom in mind. That’s why when you play Reach NSNB we get these stupid fast time to kills speeds, that are either around the perfect H1 3 shot (DMR) or flatout faster (Pistol) you can’t take out a core design idea of the game and expect it not to change the weapon balance. Simple as that.

 

6 minutes ago, Hully said:

You can when the idea is inherently stupid to begin with. Adding an RNG element to shooting, in a first person shooter, is basically the stupidest thing I can think of. If you want to use projectile instead of hitscan, use damage falloff, or in other games us recoil, that's all fine. But to say to the player we're going to punish you, even though your raw mechanical aim was perfect, because you were shooting too fast, is so backwards it almost hurts to think about. 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't been playing that much reach lately, but isn't the kill time of a DMR 5 shot still slower that a BR 4 shot? 

 Reach, even without any bloom whatsoever, still has the slowest time to kill in the entire franchise.  This is a complete non-problem.

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45 minutes ago, ILJC1992 said:

 Bungie was always trying to make a “bloom" mechanic work. Never did. 343 did with H4 and H5.

My parents told me if I wanted to live to see the day my children thrive, I was to quit smoking immediately. And this fucking post gave me cancer anyway. 

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@ILJC1992

You're not going to get far with your debates, my dude. Halo is at its best when a player doesn't need to worry about a random factor keeping him from shooting. We dislike the ones we got in games past, and are pushing to make the experience much more consistent for the future.

 

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31 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

@ILJC1992

You're not going to get far with your debates, my dude. Halo is at its best when a player doesn't need to worry about a random factor keeping him from shooting. We dislike the ones we got in games past, and are pushing to make the experience much more consistent for the future.

 

I was simply asking if anyone had tried 85% bloom. Personally I do think NSNB is the way to go. In a perfect world they drop the ROF on the Bloomless DMR. But I’ll accept the faster time to kill over bloom.

 

1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

 

 Reach, even without any bloom whatsoever, still has the slowest time to kill in the entire franchise.  This is a complete non-problem.

that my friend is a lie. The MLG forums back in 2012 when No Bloom was released broke down the DMR vs H1 pistol vs H2 BR vs H3 BR vs Reach Pistol. 
 

the reach pistol is by far the fastest, followed by H1, Reach, 2, 3. The rate of fire on the DMR counters the BRs in 2/3 being fourshots. That’s optimal of course with players standing medium range and un moving. When you add the H3 spread and H1 spread. You end up with Reach Pistol. H1 and Reach being around the same, 2, then 3 

1 hour ago, Hully said:

You can when the idea is inherently stupid to begin with. Adding an RNG element to shooting, in a first person shooter, is basically the stupidest thing I can think of unless it's done intelligently like it was in CE. If you want to use projectile instead of hitscan, use damage falloff, or in other games use recoil, that's all fine. But to say to the player we're going to punish you, even though your raw mechanical aim was perfect, because you were shooting too fast, is so backwards it almost hurts to think about. 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't been playing that much reach lately, but isn't the kill time of a DMR 5 shot still slower that a BR 4 shot? 

Look up

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1 hour ago, Obnokshus said:

My parents told me if I wanted to live to see the day my children thrive, I was to quit smoking immediately. And this fucking post gave me cancer anyway. 

It’s not wrong to admit 343 did pure gun play better. More consistent utility weapons, with none of bungie bullet spread BS.

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Bloom is a synthetic kill time increase to allow lesser skilled players to occassionally win DMR duals through luck. It is also Bungie's answer to hitscan weapons ruining people at long range.

You hated the BR spread? wElL nOw YoU cAn CoNtRoL iT

cmv

 

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1 hour ago, ILJC1992 said:

It’s not wrong to admit 343 did pure gun play better. More consistent utility weapons, with none of bungie bullet spread BS.

In which game? I'd say in every game that their guns shoot straight there is either insane magnetism, a bad strafe and/or the aiming is literally broken. I'd say in principle they should've done better than bungie but then they fumble the execution every single time

An example would be you know how PC players are complaining about aim assist in Reach? Just wait until they encounter H2A console players. They think we can't miss now lol. Not that anyone could miss most of them standing still or running in straight lines if we're being real. It doesn't really matter if the gun is consistent if they ruin it all by just making it too easy. The only gunplay that I would agree that bungie was just flat out inferior with was the Reach bloom. Everything else I'd place higher than any 343 Halo spread and all in terms of enjoyable and skillful gunplay

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