Jump to content
CyReN

Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Gold said:

Anyone else love watching snipedown shit all over the so called fps god known as shroud. Was a joy for me to watch. 

I don't really watch or care much about shroud but is getting dumped on by a pro in a game that you don't play supposed to be evidence that you're not an "fps god"?

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Gold said:

Nothing will ever top the old ninja streams for me, his mix of high skilled play with crazy shenanigans is not something we have seen since.  Many will disagree but that's just my humble opinion. 

What did you say to me you little shit?

@Pulsar There is far too many reasons to mention when discussing this tragedy but I will say CoD has a massive advantage when it comes to their creators and parent developer still owning the franchise and consistently fanning the flames of its esports community. Literally never stopping for TWO DECADES. MLG did this for Halo. Not Bungie. Then they both dipped. It is what it is. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

@Knighty Knight Yeah. Halo’s had these lapses, like from 2012-2014 (minus global champs I guess), 2019-2020 where the opportunities and hype just don’t seem to be there, and the scene stagnates. Plus this huge Infinite wait doesn’t help. Meanwhile Cod is still pumping out games yearly. 

We lost arguably the number 1 and 2 best Halo players in the world. That hurts. It was such a pleasure to watch Frosty and Shotzzy compete.

Side note, did 2gre just get revenge on Frosty and drop him?

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Pulsar said:

Side note, did 2gre just get revenge on Frosty and drop him?

Haha, I didn't catch that! What goes around comes back around

Share this post


Link to post

IMG_20200915_035934.jpg

 

Tweet has since been deleted but............... What the fuck. Bit of background, The CoD Pro League has moved to PC.... but only using controllers. The Amateur league is PC/Console crossplay but still.... only controllers. 

 

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I mean he might not be completely wrong depending on how they handle driver software for various mice/keyboards and how many people they currently use to run console events. I'm not saying its impossible but depending on the number of people he has available to work on these things what hes saying could be correct in the context of not hiring more/different people to maintain all of the stations in the open bracket. You can't really allow the players themselves to handle these things since anyone could have anything on their usb that they bring with their own equipment. You could cut it down with only allowing specific brands/equipment so the driver software was generally already installed but if anyone uses anything custom/different (which is super likely) it would take more time to set it up than plugging in a controller ever will. In short it would actually matter a lot if you ran a huge open bracket like Halo had before but also had all of these players using different hardware each with their own drivers/needs that may conflict with other drivers from previous people using those stations

If you wanted to just nuke the LAN open bracket entirely and move it online so that the number of players and their actual hardware was known and manageable at live events it would work well though. I guess you could just force the use of the equipment at the event too to avoid the problem but everyone would be pissed about that

Share this post


Link to post

He's right.  The only solution would be to have every station have a default KB/M setup, and allow competitors to plug in controllers if they wish.  Obviously this isn't ideal since it would be super expensive, and would force KB/M players to use equipment they aren't comfortable with.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

you gotta be really careful with kbm since so many have software installed on the device that can used to sneak in cheats. riot buys players their preferred kbm for game day and keeps it locked up for the week to prevent tampering and even bought computers for teams to use when they went online. a solution like that would be near impossible for smaller TOs. there is no reason to rush a full switch if that is the end goal without testing it for a year or 2, especially in cod when the dev is different each year

Share this post


Link to post

Now that HCS has concluded two runs of H3, one run of H2A, and one run of Reach since the return to MCC I've been thinking a lot of the frustrations some of the players have had with the return to classic Halo and the strong desire for Infinite and something new. And ultimately, I'm incredibly frustrated that the opportunities presented to us by PC forge mode were not taken advantage of to give the competitive scene a taste of something both familiar and fresh.

AoE2 been around for twenty years, but still has a healthy scene that's been growing with the re-release. Dust2, Nuke, Train, etc. have been played forever, yet CS is as strong as ever. These games, and others, are not just doing well because re-release/sequel features are drawing in new talent and enough to sustain the veterans; one thing that allows them to continue to thrive is the consistent examination of map pools and revisions that keep tried-and-true maps while also working new ones into competition. Players compete on classic, iconic maps that are linked to the identity of the games (Arabia, Dust2, etc.) and fans old and new don't feel like they're not playing on the definitive modes of the game; but players old and new also are put on the same playing field of new maps that give everyone the opportunity to try and figure out strategies for. There's something familiar and proven to be good, as well as something fresh and exciting.

With MCC giving us a new forge editor on PC and maps having already existed previously, why did we end up playing on just the 11 gametypes that MLG set up, not to act as the final gametypes for decades of play, but as merely the last iteration of settings before the last tournament they would run for that game in light of a sequel? We had pros testing out new maps for Reach but the best we could do is just remove the two worst slayers and replace them with nothing? People have been playing Halo 3 non-stop for years, 343 having an initiative to test out new H3 gametypes while Reach and H2A were ran wouldn't have spread the community too thin. Heck, something could've been done after H5 and H3 MCC was being played on Xbox, PC forge mode is just a bonus.

Even CE has new maps for its tournament scene. What are we doing when a game that doesn't have a map editor gets new maps but we're stuck wishing 343 would be at least willing to consider allowing a forge remake of Midship into H2A tournaments?

I know, I know, 343 was just hosting sustain tournaments and resources are intended for Infinite, not for having someone review old tournaments settings. And the solution of outsourcing tournament settings for the community wouldn't work because, in spite of all the activity on these forums about what could be done and tested for Reach v8, when push came to shove nobody showed up to test things and we're just as responsible for settings stagnation as 343 is.

Still, the fact that we've had so much time in our return to MCC since HCS moved from H5 and haven't had anything new, even with PC releases injecting a shot of adrenaline into classic Halo interest, is frustrating and feels like such a missed opportunity.

Well, that's my rant. Guess I'll go back to eagerly awaiting the flighting of crossplay and other upcoming features and figuring out how much H5 heavy aim I'm willing to put up with until those features come out.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I've always pushed for them to use Forge more for both casual playlists as well as competitive.  They are some phenomenally talented map makers out there, and while I get that it takes a decent amount of effort on 343s end to vet them all to a certain standard, it's WELL worth the time.  Would also save them from creating new maps themselves.  Just have the pros test them like they did for the 2018 revamp, and then the ones that are given the thumbs up can be cleared and added to the pool.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I REALLY am excited about crossplay if nothing else. Its just an option that I feel will be/should be standard going forward for gaming in general. I hope to see Halo get it right and include all of the toggles an options to choose to play with the types of players you want to play with. Everyone wins if they do this well

As for new and refreshing maps for classic Halo titles to spice things up a little bit I think you have to do testing and frame the question correctly with regard to those maps. It can't be "Should we change the map pools?" it should be "pick one of these maps that you felt played the best" after testing and curating that selection of maps. If you don't you'll just have people complaining at things because its different and never get anything new. I'm also sure those players have gone through the same things that I have in the past where a lot of forgers or whoever get together and provide this long list of "quality" maps that aren't actually very good and after you do run some games you just sit there wondering why you wasted your time. So the person selecting the maps to test and producing a list for pro players to run games on has to actually do a good job or everyone will be pissed. They also pretty much have to be employed by 343 unless they're really about to somehow talk everyone into testing their ideas

Share this post


Link to post

All I have to say on this is that I don't completely agree with him, but I definitely don't think H5 is bad in fact I think its a decent Halo game that I enjoy. It just has a lot of flaws. 

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Metaphysics said:

Continued H3 and H5 tourneys with H5 being the focus.

this is such grasping at straws without solving anything...if 343 wants to make the hcs a thing, they need to start up a pro league and/or tournament circuit with decent budget and prizing and on a consistent schedule. moving to h5 with the need to be online and the awful servers where we had to delay streams b/c one side was experiencing heavy aim or poor hit reg or internet issues crippling an event is not the way. people are putting on their rose tinted glasses for the days of 60k viewership without remembering the issues that surrounded the game. halo was doing well imo bc we had content coming on a consistent schedule that helped develop rivalries and story lines

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, Craneteam said:

this is such grasping at straws without solving anything...if 343 wants to make the hcs a thing, they need to start up a pro league and/or tournament circuit with decent budget and prizing and on a consistent schedule. moving to h5 with the need to be online and the awful servers where we had to delay streams b/c one side was experiencing heavy aim or poor hit reg or internet issues crippling an event is not the way. people are putting on their rose tinted glasses for the days of 60k viewership without remembering the issues that surrounded the game. halo was doing well imo bc we had content coming on a consistent schedule that helped develop rivalries and story lines

I don't think anyone would be expecting all of the same attention and hype. They would've had to block out the end of H5 completely to forget how the interest in the game went straight off a cliff towards the end. There's a reason they started to run MCC tournaments and other games instead. They never would've left H5 if it were doing well (for a Halo game) there at the end. 

Whats actually going on is you have a bunch of people dedicated to competing in Halo with no new game for too many years and a revolving door of the same games we've been playing for a decade or more and nothing new happening. They just want something new because they're trapped playing Halo where the rest of us reasonably just play games outside of the Halo franchise in our free time when we're bored of it and aren't feeling nearly the same burnout that they are. I'd never play or be interested in H5 for the rest of my life without a massive overhaul of everything in that game but if you trapped me and made me compete in H3 or H2A for years on top of years I might like H5 for awhile just to catch a break. I'm pretty sure 343 is fully aware that interest will probably be historically low in all of this and they're just trying to put the actual competitive scene from the players point of view on some kind of life support. The viewership is just rip until Infinite no matter what they do.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I would be shocked if an HCS Halo 5 tourney could muster more than a thousand concurrent viewers at this point. There is zero interest left in that game, and I know I wouldn’t bother watching another second of that game. 

Share this post


Link to post

What was the viewership like for MCC H3?

 

also holy shit summit is getting his ass ate up on Twitter LMAO

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, FeaR said:

What was the viewership like for MCC H3?

They certainly weren't significantly higher apart from the inaugural STL event.  The signup numbers Moses put together also show there wasn't much of a difference.
Image

  • Simms (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

They never would've left H5 if it were doing well (for a Halo game) there at the end. 

They did it to draw attention to the MCC team's efforts on creating a good Halo experience on PC. 

Halo 5 was still popping during Dreamhack Atlanta 2018

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

They did it to draw attention to the MCC team's efforts on creating a good Halo experience on PC. 

Halo 5 was still popping during Dreamhack Atlanta 2018

I'm not sure if it was really popping viewership wise but I did enjoy both of the ATL events in H5. Its also has a pretty good turnout as a venue from that chart above. It looks about like what you would expect overall. H5 was trending down (like all games) after awhile and after briefly attracting more attention with MCC it continued to fall since we haven't gotten a new game

Share this post


Link to post

If I'm understanding everything correctly, that's $110K that's being awarded in prize money by HCS for the remainder of the year.

  • $11K for Halo 3 and PC, $99K for Halo 5 and console
  • $56K for NA in total
  • $45K for NA H5, $18K each for EMEA, LATAM, ANZ

I'd say that's pretty good consideirng we're in "hold out for Infinite" mode.

With H3 tournametns lasting through December 11, I hope that crossplay is out by then and we can try running crossplay tournaments. It's my hope that Infinite tournaments online are run crossplay, like many other games are nowadays, and that we can begin to try it out ourselves starting this year.

H5 heavy aim sucks and the observer mode is terrible, but I guess they are putting enough money in the tournament scene to justify wanting to make them easier to broadcast online.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.