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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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Just now, Boyo said:

Wasn’t the same said about Halo 4’s Title Update too?  

I remember something yes. I think they said that with the TU they made it possible to adjust weapon balance much faster (with megalo?) so it wouldn't require another TU. Of course they never used this as the game was abandoned fairly quickly to work on H5.

For H5 IIRC they claimed that the same systems that allow quick fixes from H4 would be there from the beginning, which was obviously a fucking lie.

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2 hours ago, Morachip said:

MCC flighting has been little more than beta testing, not exactly setting the best precedent for Infinite.  Now with the difficulties 343 had with pushing updates out in H5 I would assume that they improved/streamlined their pipeline for Infinite.  So it's possible that they won't necessarily need as much time to make changes to the game, thus allowing for a shorter beta/flight period.  That said, I'd bet Infinite flights will be little more than a glorified beta.  

True, but that's really also all they can do.  Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if they tried to change the H3 BR to hitscan for example. 

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25 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

True, but that's really also all they can do.  Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if they tried to change the H3 BR to hitscan for example. 

If we take 343 at their word (a risk to be sure), then flights should run up until a few weeks before launch just like the MCC flights.  IF they've actually improved their workflow and pipeline then we could theoretically see weapon/map tweaks in the flight builds.  With your H3 BR example, the gun has been around for 13 years and during that time has always been a projectile weapon that sucks online due to netcode.  It's been too long for that gun to change.  In a way it's similar to the H4 BR situation, the BR had been a 4 shot kill for 12ish years, then suddenly it's a 5 shot.  It had become so ingrained in people's minds as a 4 shot that the change was heresy.  If ever there was a time to change and tweak things it's before people get into their heads that a given gun should work in a particular way.  

Slightly random fun fact: the H2 BR is actually a projectile weapon, the projectiles just have a super fast speed. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Morachip said:

If we take 343 at their word (a risk to be sure), then flights should run up until a few weeks before launch just like the MCC flights.  IF they've actually improved their workflow and pipeline then we could theoretically see weapon/map tweaks in the flight builds.  With your H3 BR example, the gun has been around for 13 years and during that time has always been a projectile weapon that sucks online due to netcode.  It's been too long for that gun to change.  In a way it's similar to the H4 BR situation, the BR had been a 4 shot kill for 12ish years, then suddenly it's a 5 shot.  It had become so ingrained in people's minds as a 4 shot that the change was heresy.  If ever there was a time to change and tweak things it's before people get into their heads that a given gun should work in a particular way.  

My point was more that with the MCC flighting, beta testing is all they can really do.  Sure, they're adding new things to PC and tweaking them to make sure they're OK, but the games themselves can't be changed. 

With Infinite, there will likely be changes to the core gameplay that need to be made, and that will take longer than playing around with the mouse acceleration or the like.  As long as they leave enough time to make changes that OBVIOUSLY need to be made, I'll be happy.  If they do the flighting, and leave glaring issues in the game for launch, that's when I'll be upset. 

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Imagine if they released a Bungie style Vidoc called "Return to form" and the first thing they talk about is the removal of sprint. 

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8 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Imagine if they released a Bungie style Vidoc called "Return to form" and the first thing they talk about is the removal of sprint. 

I would lose so hard

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Imagine if they released a Bungie style Vidoc called "Return to form" and the first thing they talk about is the removal of sprint. 

That would honestly be on par with that Halo: The Return video as far as hype goes. That'd be the happiest I've been since the MCC announcement.

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I've already come to terms with the fact that Infinite will have sprint but a Halo without sprint releasing in this day and age wouldn't even seem real, It's been 13 years since the last no sprint mainline Halo game, it would seem surreal.

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8 minutes ago, Mow said:

I've already come to terms with the fact that Infinite will have sprint but a Halo without sprint releasing in this day and age wouldn't even seem real, It's been 13 years since the last no sprint mainline Halo game, it would seem surreal.

Do you think there are any movement abilities that could work within the parameters of Halo’s formula?  

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30 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Do you think there are any movement abilities that could work within the parameters of Halo’s formula?  

No not really honestly. The movement is part of what defines how older Halo games play so if you change that its not going to be the same. If you're willing to try to create new gameplay styles then yeah I think something like double jump could be really cool

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12 hours ago, Mow said:

I've already come to terms with the fact that Infinite will have sprint but a Halo without sprint releasing in this day and age wouldn't even seem real, It's been 13 years since the last no sprint mainline Halo game, it would seem surreal.

It would make a lot of sense why there is no gameplay footage. 

Also it would strengthen the argument that they are letting the title sell itself. It's Halo - one of the top 30 highest grossing media brands ever. It's bigger than Game of Thrones and Madden. 

If they show there is no sprint too early they might lose a bunch of the newcomers. 

But that's only speculation/wishful thinking. 

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Mildly off-topic but shoutout to BabyJ for participating in a Valorant Invitational today sponsored by T1:

https://liquipedia.net/valorant/T1_x_Nerd_Street_Gamers_Invitational

His team, Team Prospects, got 2nd in the first qualifier and 1st in the 2nd qualifier to qualify for the invitational.  They didn't win any matches in the Invitational itself, but good to see a Halo name already in good spot in Valorant.

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18 hours ago, Boyo said:

Do you think there are any movement abilities that could work within the parameters of Halo’s formula?  

It really depends on how you define 'Halo', Halo 5 isn't an inherently bad game, in fact it's actually pretty decent, but if you define Halo as roughly "The first 3 games in the OG trilogy" then something like Halo 5 is not really a good Halo game at all since they did everything they could to differetiate it from the OG/Bungie trilogy. With that said if you are willing to compromise a bit there is potentially room for movement abilities, let us aim and shoot whilst clambering, and if sprint absolutely must be in the game give us a starting weapon that is atleast powerful enough to punish bad plays with sprint but hard enough to use that it requires skill to master. As for thruster pack I'm not as bothered by it as others seem to be, I think the main problem people have with thruster pack in Halo 5 is that it is simply way too effective, which is something I happen to agree with, thuster pack was the main AA I used in Halo 4 and no one really complained about it's inclusion because it wasn't something you could get away with as easily as you can in Halo 5 and H4 had a billion other problems which were higher priority. But then again the question becomes "What does this really add do the game and is it necessary?" which is something that needs to be asked whenever considering the inclusion of a new mechanic into the franchise, and a question that seems to be seldomly asked at 343i. 

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6 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

It would make a lot of sense why there is no gameplay footage. 

Also it would strengthen the argument that they are letting the title sell itself. It's Halo - one of the top 30 highest grossing media brands ever. It's bigger than Game of Thrones and Madden. 

If they show there is no sprint too early they might lose a bunch of the newcomers. 

But that's only speculation/wishful thinking. 

It's a nice thought, but one that I think unfortunately doesn't line up with reality. I've gotten my hopes up so many times with this franchise over the last 10+ years that I think the best thing to do is just expect that sprint will be in the game and accept that as fact and try to enjoy the game as whatever it turns out to be instead of expecting it to line up with my particular ideal of what 'Halo' is, but if it has no sprint then that's just a bonus, but not something that I am expecting.

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20 hours ago, Mow said:

I've already come to terms with the fact that Infinite will have sprint

Same. I am excited to play Halo 2/3 again with my friends but after that the excitement for Halo ends. I absolutely refuse to let Infinite even interest me. It will just be another 343 wE wAnT tO mAkE oUr MaRk On ThE fRaNcHiSe special. Sprint, shit antagonist, shit gameplay, shit enemy design, shit weapons.

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

It's a nice thought, but one that I think unfortunately doesn't line up with reality. I've gotten my hopes up so many times with this franchise over the last 10+ years that I think the best thing to do is just expect that sprint will be in the game and accept that as fact and try to enjoy the game as whatever it turns out to be instead of expecting it to line up with my particular ideal of what 'Halo' is, but if it has no sprint then that's just a bonus, but not something that I am expecting.

I will definitely attempt to enjoy it no matter what. I will also test the shit out of settings without sprint.

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3 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

I will definitely attempt to enjoy it no matter what. 

Same here.  

3 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

I will also test the shit out of settings without sprint.

Kudos but I’m done playing that game.  Running customs is fine and fun but if the base game needs to be gutted and rebuilt, I won’t be a part of it.  Small changes like disabling radar and spawning with the Magnum?  Fine.  Creating a whole different game that only a handful of people will want to run customs in?  Been there, done that.  Not again.  

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6 minutes ago, Boyo said:

 Creating a whole different game that only a handful of people will want to run customs in?  Been there, done that.  Not again.  

You mean Halo 1, 2, 3, and Reach? LOL

The esports side (MLG tournament attendees) have been the "handful" of players forever. We are the smallest of the minorities. 

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Sprint was a base trait in Halo 4 and 5.  How many no sprint tournaments were held for those titles?  

@Knighty Knight

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Assuming that 1) we don't get any info until the July event, and 2) we actually DO get info at the July event, then that leaves four months between reveal and launch.  We'll get hit with an absolute dump truck of info in that time span.

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Just now, OG Nick said:

Four months of flights?

More like one week at the beginning of November, but we can dream. 

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My hunch is that part of a Halo reveal would include an announcement that the release date is going to be delayed.

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