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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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4 hours ago, LukeB9515 said:

Xbox, how strange. We played multiplayer for a couple of hours after the game crashed 3 times in a row on regret with no issues atall. We also play other games like overwatch frequently so it does seem to be a specific problem with h2. May just have to bite the bullet and finish this mission seperately. 

I haven't had any issues with coop campaign on Xbox either. Is one of you using the Xbox One X and the other using a regular Xbox One? I've heard that causes issues for some people, though not heard of this specific one.

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18 hours ago, Commander Eagle said:

I haven't had any issues with coop campaign on Xbox either. Is one of you using the Xbox One X and the other using a regular Xbox One? I've heard that causes issues for some people, though not heard of this specific one.

Both on standard xbox one's. We are going to both try re-installing the game see if that works.

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So I was playing H3 the other day and I started to wonder how equipment could have been if they had implemented it properly. I’m going to give my opinions on the equipment types in H3 and if, in my opinion, they could potentially belong in a competitive halo. Of course, this all assumes they are map pickups with properly tuned respawn times. I’m curious to hear you guys opinions as well.

Auto turret: obviously does not belong in competitive

Bubble shield: way too get-out-of-jail free, does not belong in competitive

Cloaking: active camo already has this role

Deployable cover: similar to but not as bad as bubble shield, probably does not belong in competitive, at least without major tuning.

Flare: this may be a controversial opinion, but I think flare could be a useful tactical option in competitive games. It would have to be on a very slow respawn like a power weapon, but it would be interesting to see it for example on CTF maps where it is difficult to get flag captures. It may need to be “burned” on death though to avoid 3-4 of them floating around by the end of the game.

Grav lift: definitely could be used in competitive, particularly objective. Could provide a good but not overpowered tactical advantage

Power drain: I think power drains are too OP in any zone control gametype, but could belong as an area denial tool in slayer or maybe CTF gametypes. Might need some tweaking

Invincibility: obviously does not belong in competitive

Radar jammer: does not belong in competitive because radar does not belong in competitive

Regenerator: falls in a similar bucket as deployable cover and is fairly get-out-of-jail free, so probably doesn’t belong as is. Maybe with some tweaking could be used in slayer gametypes

Trip mine: I think the concept of setting up hidden traps is interesting, but hard to implement in a balanced manner. I’m not really sure about this one, it would definitely require some major revisions but I think there is a possibility.

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14 minutes ago, Commander Eagle said:

So I was playing H3 the other day and I started to wonder how equipment could have been if they had implemented it properly. I’m going to give my opinions on the equipment types in H3 and if, in my opinion, they could potentially belong in a competitive halo. Of course, this all assumes they are map pickups with properly tuned respawn times. I’m curious to hear you guys opinions as well.

Auto turret: obviously does not belong in competitive

Bubble shield: way too get-out-of-jail free, does not belong in competitive

Cloaking: active camo already has this role

Deployable cover: similar to but not as bad as bubble shield, probably does not belong in competitive, at least without major tuning.

Flare: this may be a controversial opinion, but I think flare could be a useful tactical option in competitive games. It would have to be on a very slow respawn like a power weapon, but it would be interesting to see it for example on CTF maps where it is difficult to get flag captures. It may need to be “burned” on death though to avoid 3-4 of them floating around by the end of the game.

Grav lift: definitely could be used in competitive, particularly objective. Could provide a good but not overpowered tactical advantage

Power drain: I think power drains are too OP in any zone control gametype, but could belong as an area denial tool in slayer or maybe CTF gametypes. Might need some tweaking

Invincibility: obviously does not belong in competitive

Radar jammer: does not belong in competitive because radar does not belong in competitive

Regenerator: falls in a similar bucket as deployable cover and is fairly get-out-of-jail free, so probably doesn’t belong as is. Maybe with some tweaking could be used in slayer gametypes

Trip mine: I think the concept of setting up hidden traps is interesting, but hard to implement in a balanced manner. I’m not really sure about this one, it would definitely require some major revisions but I think there is a possibility.

I think the only one out of them all that could've worked was the lift. Maybe. As for the bolded part I'm assuming you either didn't play or don't remember default Guardian on release with the flare and maulers 

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-I remember the flare quite well. It had two major problems. It ruined certain TV's, and you usually ended up blinding yourself with it. If those were fixed, I think it'd be fine.
-Power Drain had potential. I think it stripped shields too fast though. If it did it more gradually I'd be on board.
-Grav Lift is ready for comp play as is, imo.
-Regen has the most potential to me. All it needed was a slower charge rate. You should be able to BR a guy to death while he's in it. Honestly H4 had it right, by just making it begin your shield recharge.

I might be on board with an armor mod pickup that acts as a counter. Let it protect you from power drain and flares. It also saves you from one lethal headshot, but that's how you lose it.

Every item needs a visual cue on the player model and a longer respawn time.
 

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19 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

-I remember the flare quite well. It had two major problems. It ruined certain TV's, and you usually ended up blinding yourself with it. If those were fixed, I think it'd be fine.
-Power Drain had potential. I think it stripped shields too fast though. If it did it more gradually I'd be on board.
-Grav Lift is ready for comp play as is, imo.
-Regen has the most potential to me. All it needed was a slower charge rate. You should be able to BR a guy to death while he's in it. Honestly H4 had it right, by just making it begin your shield recharge.

I might be on board with an armor mod pickup that acts as a counter. Let it protect you from power drain and flares. It also saves you from one lethal headshot, but that's how you lose it.

Every item needs a visual cue on the player model and a longer respawn time.
 

Power drain should have been a burst of power rather than a constant one imo. Basically like a big EMP grenade.

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Give the plasma pistol overcharge shot the ability to shut down bubble shields/drainers/regens immediately and I think equipment would be a non issue.

Except flare, fuck that shit.

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The problem with the bubble shield was that it was ridiculously easy to bail yourself out of a bad situation with, and that it's something that encourages defensive play by it's very nature. 

If you have rockets in a game and you get yourself cornered by an airborne enemy at point blank, as well as a melee down - you're probably gonna trade and lose rockets. You still have to take some level of caution. 

You're 3 shots down? Awww, no problem! Just press this button and this stupid fucking device will save you, even if you can clearly see that the device hasn't even dropped to the floor before you eat what would otherwise be the killing shot. 

It's never been hugely influential, either. It wasn't dominant enough to be something to actively time and setup for, moreso just a stupid gimmick you picked up that was just important enough to piss the hell out of people who would otherwise have gotten into a clean gunfight with you. 

Ideally, keep it out of anything that isn't BTB. If you were to shove it in smaller, sweatier gamemodes, then-

• Static spawn, I'd say every 150 - 180 seconds or so.     

• Make certain weapons able to fire cleanly through/completely overload the shielding very quickly (Instantly - 0.3 seconds). Plasma weaponry, explosive weapons and sniper rifles are good candidates. 

• Make it so that when you drop the equipment, you have to actually aim to save yourself. Make it only activate if a player is within a meter's radius or something when it lands. Also, give us the ability to actually aim it and launch it by considerable distances. It'd be interesting to save your teammate by throwing this at them. 

• Allow utilities and other weapons to also bring down shields with sustained fire. This can be significantly longer, from 1 to 2 seconds. NEVER long enough to allow shields to recharge. 

• Make it's primary use the ability to stop a powerup/weapon from being naded somewhere else. Think Damnation, but throwing a bubble shield atop camo prevents it from getting naded down and forces the players below to give away crucial information if they want to nade it down. To this end, let the shield last permanently unless it's overloaded by explosions or gunfire (Not that it takes a lot to do so). 

Though, it does work fine in BTB as it is. Mostly because there's a lot of vehicles with huge amounts of firepower running around the maps. 

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The bubble shield bailout issue can be solved by just a placing a delay on it, like a 3 or 5 second timer from when its dropped to when it actually generates the shield. Create some sort of generating-shield animation for the meantime so people don't get confused.

If weapons are gonna be able to break through it, I'd much rather that ability be limited to one or two weapons. The point, at least from my perspective, is to give jobs to weapons that might otherwise be overlooked. If you can just dump ammo into it with any old weapon and eventually it will fall, its a busted mechanic that promotes tedious, brain dead gameplay and you may as well just remove it. Same reason I hate utility/sniper weapons being able to destroy vehicles.

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38 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

If weapons are gonna be able to break through [the Bubble Shield] I'd much rather that ability be limited to one or two weapons.

Rather than “breaking through” the Bubble Shield with high damage attacks, I think it would be more interesting for one weapon in the sandbox to simply ignore it.  This weapon’s projectiles pass right through the bubble shield and continue traveling forward as if it wasn’t even there.  Naturally, these projectiles would also ignore energy shields and deal damage directly to the health of an impacted player, acting as a soft overshield counter.  

What do you think about equipment that requires teamwork to operate?  The Spotting Scope tags an enemy vehicle.  The Missile Pod fires projectiles that home in on a tagged vehicle. 

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I don't understand why you would do gameplay reveals for your new console using exclusively 3rd party titles, unless Infinite gameplay is woefully underprepared. And this close to launch, that's a scary thought. This franchise can't take another emaciated H5-esque launch.

Hopefully there's some brilliant marketing strategy that is flying way over my head right now.

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19 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I don't understand why you would do gameplay reveals for your new console using exclusively 3rd party titles, unless Infinite gameplay is woefully underprepared. And this close to launch, that's a scary thought. This franchise can't take another emaciated H5-esque launch.

Hopefully there's some brilliant marketing strategy that is flying way over my head right now.

Infinite is ready

No need to wait

Infinite is ready?

No, need to wait!

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This is all pure speculation, but Infinite being in a horrible state is all that we can assume. 

They've already gotten their player hype train started, it makes zero sense as to why they've had such a tight lid on all information surrounding the game. Giving selective positive info in regular time intervals would have, at the very least kept the hype train fuelled.

343i are well aware of the fact that players are hyped for Infinite, yet they still prolong the information drought. This isn't in line with Halo 4, MCC, or Halo 5's marketing campaigns either.

The only assumption that's left to make is that the development has been highly tumultous, and there's still a lot of uncertainty regarding the game. The alternative, is that the game is underprepared for any real demonstration. It's been a long time since H5 released, so unpreparedness either means that they've spent a ridiculous amount of time developing the new engine, that they've drastically upped the scale of the game in some way or form, or that they've just wasted a lot of time. 

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4 hours ago, _Synapse said:

It's been a long time since H5 released, so unpreparedness either means that they've spent a ridiculous amount of time developing the new engine, that they've drastically upped the scale of the game in some way or form, or that they've just wasted a lot of time. 

It's a combination of the three. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but this game has been through one of the worst development cycles for a AAA product. Maybe even worse than Destiny.

Set your expectations very low.

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7 hours ago, _Synapse said:

This is all pure speculation, but Infinite being in a horrible state is all that we can assume. 

They've already gotten their player hype train started, it makes zero sense as to why they've had such a tight lid on all information surrounding the game. Giving selective positive info in regular time intervals would have, at the very least kept the hype train fuelled.

343i are well aware of the fact that players are hyped for Infinite, yet they still prolong the information drought. This isn't in line with Halo 4, MCC, or Halo 5's marketing campaigns either.

The only assumption that's left to make is that the development has been highly tumultous, and there's still a lot of uncertainty regarding the game. The alternative, is that the game is underprepared for any real demonstration. It's been a long time since H5 released, so unpreparedness either means that they've spent a ridiculous amount of time developing the new engine, that they've drastically upped the scale of the game in some way or form, or that they've just wasted a lot of time. 

There is another conclusion, that after the very misleading marketing to H5 343 has decided to tighten their marketing window thereby reducing the amount of unrelated or late changed materials being shown to the public.  Beyond that other games have shown that a shortened marketing cycle can also spur hype and anticipation, Fallout 4 is a prime example of this.  This would go along with Microsoft's/Phil Spencer's motto of 'showing a game when it's ready to be shown.'  After Scalebound they've been trying to show games closer to release.  And besides that I cannot deny that there are all time high levels of anticipation for Infinite's reveal, even if patience is wearing thin.  

Not saying that this is the case, but there are other options to the game being in complete shambles.  I for one agree with you and think that Infinite's developement has been less than smooth.  

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Why would you risk another marketing failure or bad reception when you know the game will sell off of its name alone especially after looking and realizing that historically the game series isn't aging well nor are the products really being received that well over time? You wouldn't imo. You would pull on people's nostalgia and show some flashy stuff shortly before release but not early enough or with enough real information that people have time to really think about or reconsider their first impression. They do not want to reinforce the idea that their games either release broken or incomplete like they have recently

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I think it has more to do with the new console than the game.  Why would you show the "downgraded" One X version over the Series X if possible? 

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1 hour ago, Trespa5s said:

I think it has more to do with the new console than the game.  Why would you show the "downgraded" One X version over the Series X if possible? 

They have a chance to do that on May 7th, and they're not doing it. Hence the worry.

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

They have a chance to do that on May 7th, and they're not doing it. Hence the worry.

Unless they've explicitly said somewhere (and I've missed it) that there won't be any first party titles, I'm not entirely convinced we won't see Infinite gameplay.

I'm personally expecting another "Soonᵀᴹ," but it's possible.  Even if we don't see anything though, we're getting to the point where they'll HAVE to show it off.  They've announced that flighting is happening, and we're ~5.5 months out from the game going gold.  Unless they're OK with people making the accusation that the flighting was just a marketing ploy with no intention of making adjustments, they have to start within the next month/two, and one would have to presume that they'll show gameplay before the flighting happens.  I suppose it's possible to have closed flighting with an NDA, but that really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. 

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49 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

Unless they've explicitly said somewhere (and I've missed it) that there won't be any first party titles, I'm not entirely convinced we won't see Infinite gameplay.

I'm personally expecting another "Soonᵀᴹ," but it's possible.  Even if we don't see anything though, we're getting to the point where they'll HAVE to show it off.  They've announced that flighting is happening, and we're ~5.5 months out from the game going gold.  Unless they're OK with people making the accusation that the flighting was just a marketing ploy with no intention of making adjustments, they have to start within the next month/two, and one would have to presume that they'll show gameplay before the flighting happens.  I suppose it's possible to have closed flighting with an NDA, but that really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. 

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/1255942608158744576

I think people are assuming no Halo Infinite due to this Twitter thread. Basically the first tweet says that he's excited for what the partners have to show. And when somebody went to clarify what that means he says this is kind of like pre-E3 hype and specifically mentions partners again.

I don't think this necessarily spells doom for a fall release. This is basically a way to guarantee people tune into your marketing twice. This is the first next gen gameplay of anything we're going to see unless Sony drops something early next week, so people will tune in just to see what the graphics are like. Then you get people to tune in a second time when you show off your heavy hitter first party titles.

To me it sounds like strategy to advertise twice to your target demographic. I would assume they discuss Halo when they show their other first party titles. If they don't mention it when showing off their other stuff, then I'll be concerned about a fall release date.

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Just now, Silos said:

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/1255942608158744576

I think people are assuming no Halo Infinite due to this Twitter thread. Basically the first tweet says that he's excited for what the partners have to show. And when somebody went to clarify what that means he says this is kind of like pre-E3 hype and specifically mentions partners again.

I don't think this necessarily spells doom for a fall release. This is basically a way to guarantee people tune into your marketing twice. This is the first next gen gameplay of anything we're going to see unless Sony drops something early next week, so people will tune in just to see what the graphics are like. Then you get people to tune in a second time when you show off your heavy hitter first party titles.

To me it sounds like strategy to advertise twice to your target demographic. I would assume they discuss Halo when they show their other first party titles. If they don't mention it when showing off their other stuff, then I'll be concerned about a fall release date.

Hadn't seen that tweet, so fair enough then.  I'm not concerned about the release date.  Phil Spencer is adamant about the Series X releasing this fall, and it would take an absolute catastrophe to not have Infinite as a launch title.  Obviously we're still a ways out.  I suppose the good news is that once we start getting info, it's going to keep coming relatively quickly because of the ever shrinking gap before launch. 

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11 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

Unless they're OK with people making the accusation that the flighting was just a marketing ploy with no intention of making adjustments, they have to start within the next month/two, and one would have to presume that they'll show gameplay before the flighting happens.  I suppose it's possible to have closed flighting with an NDA, but that really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. 

MCC flighting has been little more than beta testing, not exactly setting the best precedent for Infinite.  Now with the difficulties 343 had with pushing updates out in H5 I would assume that they improved/streamlined their pipeline for Infinite.  So it's possible that they won't necessarily need as much time to make changes to the game, thus allowing for a shorter beta/flight period.  That said, I'd bet Infinite flights will be little more than a glorified beta.  

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1 hour ago, Morachip said:

Now with the difficulties 343 had with pushing updates out in H5 I would assume that they improved/streamlined their pipeline for Infinite. 

This is pretty much word by word what they said about Halo 5. Then it took two years to get a weapon rebalance patch.

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7 minutes ago, Basu said:

This is pretty much word by word what they said about Halo 5. Then it took two years to get a weapon rebalance patch.

Wasn’t the same said about Halo 4’s Title Update too?  

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