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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, Knighty Knight said:

The best players in the world miss with AA even though its "OP". It's just fact you can miss with AA. When you are playing against players at your level or above.. you will be challenged regardless of your input. 

Does the mere fact that missing "happens" mean that the issue with aim assist is overblown to you? That's a laughably low bar, if so. The issue isn't that controller players never miss, it's that they don't miss nearly enough (PC players don't miss enough either right now due to bullet mag, but controllers are even more problematic because they have bullet mag in combination with other aim assist mechanics). Across many skill levels, including at higher levels of play, missing tends to be the exception, especially in mid-range DMR duels.

 

24 minutes ago, znot said:

I know you're mostly talking about DMR battles, but think about strongsiding in Reach compared to any other Halo. It's a joke. You'll pretty much get headshotted every time. Even though your head is down, I just have to shoot where your head was and Reach gives me the kill 4/5 times.

Not saying shooting someone's ass should give you a headshot but honestly fuck stronsiding lol.

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for a new halo game id agree with saint but this is reach where the kill times are the longest in the series already. Id rather not make them even longer. Id rather just improve input delay from 50ms to 5ms and call it a day. 

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7 hours ago, Mythik Nick said:

Does the mere fact that missing "happens" mean that the issue with aim assist is overblown to you? That's a laughably low bar, if so. The issue isn't that controller players never miss, it's that they don't miss nearly enough (PC players don't miss enough either right now due to bullet mag, but controllers are even more problematic because they have bullet mag in combination with other aim assist mechanics). Across many skill levels, including at higher levels of play, missing tends to be the exception, especially in mid-range DMR duels.

 

Not saying shooting someone's ass should give you a headshot but honestly fuck stronsiding lol.

Bullet Magnetism is an Absolute MANDATORY For Mouse. this OBSOLETE engine has literally Zero optimal input performance at all. Ive seen NOTHING but muscle memory trained Twitch fiends MISS EVERY Shot for literally 7-8 games STRAIGHT until even remotely gathering any formation of cognitive traction at all and even that grasp is 1000% dictated by magnetism registration. This Game Engine is Literally ANTI Counter Strike. without MASSIVE assistence, the KBM peripheral is OUTRIGHT useless.

feels good to honestly have an online steam game be Controller focused though. its a breath of fresh air. Steam is nothing like Xbox live. If you're not going out of your way to sit at your rigid desk and sweat on KBM you essentially have no business being online. you'll be indefinite trash forever if you operate otherwise. So this is nice.

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On 12/14/2019 at 12:54 AM, Humpflung said:

Nope. Controller on CS is useless, controller on Halo PC should be on par

Fucking Erroneous 

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4 minutes ago, Vyrst said:

Fucking Erroneous 

This has to be the most incel post ever on this forum......


Also I am correct. 

Halo on PC should have been tailored for PC. 


Because it wasn't we lost 130K players in 2 weeks. LOL GG

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2 hours ago, Humpflung said:

Because it wasn't we lost 130K players in 2 weeks. LOL GG 

What's with the doom and gloom? I agree this was a rushed port and 343 is clueless as always, but we don't need to make shit up to make 343 look bad.

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49 minutes ago, Basu said:

What's with the doom and gloom? I agree this was a rushed port and 343 is clueless as always, but we don't need to make shit up to make 343 look bad.

Game was peaking at around 150k players at launch and is down to 41k now.  Granted there's always going to be more people playing right at launch but I remember just a few days past that it was down to 90k, and here we are now at half that.  He might be being hyperbolic but the drop is very real.

Like always you could blame any number of factors.  Given the excessive, ridiculous amount of bitching permeating the entire internet about DMR starts and the rabid defense over console aim assist I'd personally see that as the more likely culprit (obviously not that I agree with them).  Or people just finally realizing that...it's Reach.

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18 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

Game was peaking at around 150k players at launch and is down to 41k now.  Granted there's always going to be more people playing right at launch but I remember just a few days past that it was down to 90k, and here we are now at half that.  He might be being hyperbolic but the drop is very real.

Like always you could blame any number of factors.  Given the excessive, ridiculous amount of bitching permeating the entire internet about DMR starts and the rabid defense over console aim assist I'd personally see that as the more likely culprit (obviously not that I agree with them).  Or people just finally realizing that...it's Reach. 

If people seriously expected Reach to maintain 100k on PC for years to come that's on them I'd say. Of course the population was going to drop hard after a week. Let's also not forget that over 50% of the Halo population plays campaign and nothing but campaign. Why would they return to the game after finishing it? FF is boring and repetitive and Reach's core MP is complete dogshit and even with perfect mouse aiming and MKB only MM the population would've plummeted.

 

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This is still the Halo series and a bad part of it at that. Think about just how many people had an xbox 360 and bought Reach or got it for free eventually and how many of them are continuing to play it. Exactly its almost nobody. Why would anyone expect it to be super popular on PC over time? Tons of people with way more options than some tired and old version of a Halo that wasn't really that great when it was new. MCC needs the entire collection to be present and even then it likely won't be that popular ever

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To be honest, I always thought the main reason people wanted a PC port was so they could either avoid buying an xbox one, or throw the console they already bought in the trash and never think about it again.

But at the moment, you just can't do that because the MCC on PC is only like 1/5 (or 1/6 if you count ODST and H2A multiplayer) of the content. And its not even people's favorite part of the content.

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

What's with the doom and gloom? I agree this was a rushed port and 343 is clueless as always, but we don't need to make shit up to make 343 look bad.

I don't blame 343. 

I don't think they realized how bad it would be. I didn't until I saw just how hard Halo is without the static nature of the stick + mag + AA. 


Especially on steam. The playerbase is made of CSGO and PUBG players, the two most popular FPS on the platform. 

They should have focused on that market. Instead they just brought Halo to PC, and didn't think about it. 

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3 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

This is still the Halo series and a bad part of it at that. Think about just how many people had an xbox 360 and bought Reach or got it for free eventually and how many of them are continuing to play it. Exactly its almost nobody. Why would anyone expect it to be super popular on PC over time? Tons of people with way more options than some tired and old version of a Halo that wasn't really that great when it was new. MCC needs the entire collection to be present and even then it likely won't be that popular ever

Because V7 Reach is one of the best competitive settings across the Halo franchise and Hardcore PC players, AKA PUBG and CS players could have enjoyed it and see what comp Halo can be. 

Instead all the comp players plugged in their controllers and think the game is going to be taken seriously. 

They're 100% wrong. There is a reason the franchise has been dead for 10 years.

Console

Controller mechanics

Quality


We've delt with it because we love Halo.

What I do not understand is how comp players didn't get the memo and thought "oh you know what. Halo on PC has a real chance of return on the PC platform, American Esports started with Halo and and now it's coming to the ESPORTS platform........let me plug my shitty input device in that nobody on the platform likes. Oh controllers aim mechanics are broken? Oh well it's what Ive used forever who cares? Git gud. If not fuck off and lets kill the game asap. That will bring it back"

Like I thought everybody would be smart enough to move on from controller play. I guess I just do not understand

 

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13 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

Because V7 Reach is one of the best competitive settings across the Halo franchise

That might be true but Halo is generally just not a competitive game by any means.
People that play CS:GO, PUBG or Overwatch play Halo because it's a big name known from back in the day, not because they expect it to be the next big esport.
The games these people have played before (and probably still are) are catering to their competitive scene way more than Halo ever did, Reach v7 might be good relative to other Halo settings but it appeared 2 years after the game released and didn't last long at all.

If you want to make a game that is supposed to be taken seriously for PC esports you have to develope for PC right from the beginning, not port over a 10 year old console game that was mostly catering to braindead kids that just wanted to shoot some people or play campaign.

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i dont know why people think MS and 343 will completely move halo and its competitive scene to strictly PC when this  game has always been designed to push hardware.  there is a 0% chance that  Reach will be made to center around PC and KBM inputs when, as a business, they also want to sell controllers and consoles. plus the sheer amount of work to do that for one of the worst and least visually appealing competitive titles will not translate into halo being back as a top tier title. i wouldnt hold my breath for PC infinite being 343's main focus either since Infinite is a major launch title for the new xbox. what we have now is probably the best we get because in the off chance that competitive infinite is moved to PC, MS will still want to sell controllers

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1 hour ago, Craneteam said:

i dont know why people think MS and 343 will completely move halo and its competitive scene to strictly PC when this  game has always been designed to push hardware.  there is a 0% chance that  Reach will be made to center around PC and KBM inputs when, as a business, they also want to sell controllers and consoles. plus the sheer amount of work to do that for one of the worst and least visually appealing competitive titles will not translate into halo being back as a top tier title. i wouldnt hold my breath for PC infinite being 343's main focus either since Infinite is a major launch title for the new xbox. what we have now is probably the best we get because in the off chance that competitive infinite is moved to PC, MS will still want to sell controllers

You realize that Xbox consoles have always sold at a loss and Microsoft makes the vast majority of their money from software and subscription sales, right? Everything about their current strategy for Xbox is basically platform agnostic (Xbox Play Anywhere, XCloud, Xbox Game Pass PC) and moving away from the idiotic console model that ignored the fact that Windows is the most widely used PC operating system in the world. The new Xbox even looks like a PC, is confirmed to support up to 120fps, and they've added official mouse and keyboard support on console.

Add to that their push for esports, which is a growing, trendy industry, OVERWHELMINGLY PC-focused and it makes literally no sense for them to waste the Halo IP to sell... controllers? Even if that was a huge revenue stream for them (doubtful), Xbox controllers are one of the most widely used input devices outside of Kb&M on PC already in large part because of DirectX and XInput.

That said, I don't really expect them to make Reach a real PC game. I just think it's a wasted opportunity to finally support Halo on PC just to provide a marginally improved console experience on a platform that has the potential to do way more than that and it would be a HUGE mistake to handle Infinite this way. I'm not plugging in my controller to play an FPS game regardless.

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Regarding Reach's popularity and population:

Keep in mind this is the game that took what was a somewhat declining community at the end of H3 and put it in a box. This is just an appetizer, wait until H2/3 hit PC, that's where we'll get a read of how much Halo can influence the PC market.

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1 hour ago, Humpflung said:

Because V7 Reach is one of the best competitive settings across the Halo franchise and Hardcore PC players, AKA PUBG and CS players could have enjoyed it and see what comp Halo can be. 

Instead all the comp players plugged in their controllers and think the game is going to be taken seriously. 

They're 100% wrong. There is a reason the franchise has been dead for 10 years.
 

Isn't "missed potential" and "the Halo franchise" basically synonymous by now? Every single game could've been massively improved with a tiny patch and some common sense when it comes to settings and playlist management. Halo on PC has been a meme since its inception so it doesn't suprise me in the slightest that Reach was simply ported to PC with all the garbage mechanics it always had. Hell, I'm surprised they turned off motion blur and the film grain and gave us ONE graphic settings option.

Ever since the announcement, the only thing I was looking forward to in Reach is modding and getting people interested in GoldPro customs again. That and the occasional fucking around in BTB or Invasion (premier ranked eSports experience btw).

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Halo is a small fish in 2019. No one is gunna play halo for esports over any of the other popular fps that actually get updated constantly, has a big community, and has dev support for events and prize pools. They come to the comp forums and find its just 20 people bickering amongst each other. Even on an old game, csgo, u can find metagame discussion. Csgo, overwatch, apex, fortnite, pubg. Fuck even quake champs is in a better position than halo. 
 

while mouse is a problem, its not whats keeping reach back. Halo3 is the shittiest halo out of the first 3 and was the most popular simply because it had the most features. Lack of custom browser is more of a detriment to player retention than the mouse delay. 

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People who think that having only KBM is somehow going to revive the scene are fucking delusional..this is literally what 343 says when they try and justify keeping sprint in the game.

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2 hours ago, NavG123 said:

I’ve played a lot of Counter-Strike and Reach on PC feels fine to me. I guess I wasn’t expecting the world out of a port of a 10 year old game.

Some of you need to accept that this port was never going to bring Halo back into mainstream relevancy. It’s not gaining players not because KBM players feel like they’re OUTRIGHT USELESS and need MASSIVE ASSISTENCE to keep up. It’s not gaining players because people don’t want to play a game they’ve played before.

I’m just waiting to see what Infinite is like at this point. I expect more out of that game as it’s being built specifically for PC.

Your non-troll posts are some of the best on this website. Do it more often, guy.

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Kind of seems like the release of Reach on pc split the already small Halo comp playerbase in to two minuscule subgroups - the pc converts and xbox. What is the future platform of comp Halo? PC/Xbox/Crossplay? It can't possibly be split like the way Fortnite is doing it. The population just isn't big enough. Is controller on PC the way we're moving or is it just a fad everyone (certainly streamers) was eager to capitalize on given the recent excitement of Halo on pc?

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2 hours ago, thdyingbreed said:

People who think that having only KBM is somehow going to revive the scene are fucking delusional..this is literally what 343 says when they try and justify keeping sprint in the game.

Competitive gamers are predominantly on PC. Esports are predominantly on PC. The casual market is on console. Tapping into the PC market is the only way Halo has a chance. That is an objective fact and m&k is the only way the game will be taken seriously

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