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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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2 minutes ago, Sandman said:

game developers are clueless and all want to make the same wack game

Let's all remember that 343 is the studio that brought us:

- Sprint by default

- A sniper that aims for you

- Perks

- Loadouts

- Lootboxes

- Removal of all pre-established Halo art and sound (dumb, thicc elites and even removed the Halo shield recharge sound ffs)

- HCS in a tent.

- "Oh we need a new enemy let's just make some robots that are functionally the same gameplay as elites and grunts)

- The worst AAA launch in history (MCC)

- An absolutely stupid amount of weapons with projectiles that track you (Suppressor, Boltshot, Hydra come on).

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19 minutes ago, Sandman said:

game developers are clueless and all want to make the same wack game

I've seen it said by multiple people that the games industry and the number of people in it is smaller than it looks.  It could be less of companies copying each other and more of just the same devs bouncing between studios making the same changes/design choices that they made everywhere else.  Kinda tin-foil hat stuff, but not completely unrealistic.  

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19 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Let's all remember that 343 is the studio that brought us:

- Sprint by default

- A sniper that aims for you

- Perks

- Loadouts

- Lootboxes

- Removal of all pre-established Halo art and sound (dumb, thicc elites and even removed the Halo shield recharge sound ffs)

- HCS in a tent.

- "Oh we need a new enemy let's just make some robots that are functionally the same gameplay as elites and grunts)

- The worst AAA launch in history (MCC)

- An absolutely stupid amount of weapons with projectiles that track you (Suppressor, Boltshot, Hydra come on).

Hcs in a tent?.

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There's also a balancing act between letting the devs make the game that they want to make, and respecting an already established franchise.  A game being objectively good as a game, vs relatively good/bad as part of a series.  

If H5 was a fresh IP, it absolutely wouldn't have gotten NEARLY the amount of hate that it did.  Think about it:  one of the major complaints of the campaign (not playing as Chief for most of it) wouldn't be an issue because we wouldn't have been expecting to play as Chief.  Sprint wouldn't have been a debate, and spartan abilities would have been argued against based on competitiveness instead of just screaming that it's change and "NO! I want classic, REAL Halo!"  Of course there are still gripes we'd have with the game (no game is perfect after all) but it wouldn't be blown out of proportion and declared the death of the franchise and calling for the developer's heads. 

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7 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Wtf does what he said have anything to do with what Mike posted

He says he wants fights to not be about positioning then describes why he likes positioning.

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Imagine being surprised that 343 employees dont see a problem with sprint. If they did, we wouldn't be worrying about it in 2019. 

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Quote

I enjoy those clutch roll up on someone from behind who wasn’t watching moments and get the drop on them.

I don't expect somebody to understand why sprint is broken on so many levels if he cannot form a sentence that makes any sense tbf.
 

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I'm so glad the franchise I love has been hijacked by people who don't understand what made the franchise so good to begin with, and can't even grasp simple things like why sprint is detrimental to the gameplay, really I'm just so thrilled, and I just caaaan't wait until we see sprint in Halo Infinite! Can't. Fucking. Wait.

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And just like that... Two simple tweets have essentially killed any glimmer of hope that I had that Infinite would feature classic Halo movement. 
 

*sigh*

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15 hours ago, Morachip said:

I've seen it said by multiple people that the games industry and the number of people in it is smaller than it looks.  It could be less of companies copying each other and more of just the same devs bouncing between studios making the same changes/design choices that they made everywhere else.  Kinda tin-foil hat stuff, but not completely unrealistic.  

Sort of true. Its probably bigger than people imagine when they think of something smaller but its not as big as what many would think at the same time. A sort of contributing factor to that is that for a lot of the people there they could work less harsh hours and make as much or more money if they just quit trying to do game design specifically. That's really going to hit the pool of people you're trying to hire hard in terms of talent/education in a lot of cases. That's not me throwing shots though there are plenty of very talented people who stick with it and make games happen.

I'd think a bigger cause for most games kind of merging mechanically is that you have the pressure of what you experience influencing your own designs and from the top you have people pushing to make profit and witnessing what goes on trend wise where the money is currently being made. Even if you were just trying to make games you want to play (like bungie said lol) the odds are that most of your studio is influenced by whatever is popular/they're currently playing

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16 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

If H5 was a fresh IP, it absolutely wouldn't have gotten NEARLY the amount of hate that it did. 

Sprint wouldn't have been a debate, and spartan abilities would have been argued against based on competitiveness instead of just screaming that it's change and "NO! I want classic, REAL Halo!" 

Idk, I think sprint is shit in games like Titanfall as well. A game with the only unique selling proposition of "insane movement" that... requires you to lower your gun to actually move around the map. Same goes for H5 honestly, even if it was an independent IP I'd say sprint is garbage and shoulder charge and ground pound are cancer.

Sure these complaints are amplified due to the fact a perfectly good IP was ruined in order to make another generic Sci-Fi ADS sprinty loadout shooter, but it needs to be said that at their core these are just fundamentally shit mechanics in a game that has a >0.3s time to kill, not just bad for Halo.

 

3 hours ago, Doodlepop said:

And just like that... Two simple tweets have essentially killed any glimmer of hope that I had that Infinite would feature classic Halo movement. 
 

*sigh*

He doesn't even work on Infinite, but it's still disheartening to hear that someone in charge of the MCC team thinks sprint belongs in Halo. He also unironically defended AR starts before and he's the sole reason we still have to deal with that garbage in social MCC so there's that.

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25 minutes ago, Basu said:

Idk, I think sprint is shit in games like Titanfall as well. A game with the only unique selling proposition of "insane movement" that... requires you to lower your gun to actually move around the map. Same goes for H5 honestly, even if it was an independent IP I'd say sprint is garbage and shoulder charge and ground pound are cancer.

Sure these complaints are amplified due to the fact a perfectly good IP was ruined in order to make another generic Sci-Fi ADS sprinty loadout shooter, but it needs to be said that at their core these are just fundamentally shit mechanics in a game that has a >0.3s time to kill, not just bad for Halo.

Agree to disagree on sprint always being shit, but your second point proves my argument.  I DESPISE SC/GP, because they're entirely uncompetitive mechanics.  It has nothing to do with them "not being Halo," but they fact that no one should be able to sprint around a corner like a chicken with their head cut off and have an instant win button (the disadvantage in the gunfight being the primary penalty for sprint) Without a base game to say "EWW this isn't the game I want they ruined my series," like/dislikes of mechanics are based on their merit instead of hated because they're a change.  

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Sprint not allowing you to recharge your shield and also making you show up on radar is cool. (If we must have a radar and sprint. We all know Halo is better without both.)

Please remove default thrust though. It's sad to say I prefer Halo 4 and H2A due to a simple enhanced movement ability. Playing Halo 5's throwback playlist with Halo 3 maps is a delight and what I imagine Infinite should be after Testing lobbies find out the best settings.

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47 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

Sprint not allowing you to recharge your shield and also making you show up on radar is cool. (If we must have a radar and sprint. We all know Halo is better without both.)

Please remove default thrust though. It's sad to say I prefer Halo 4 and H2A due to a simple enhanced movement ability. Playing Halo 5's throwback playlist with Halo 3 maps is a delight and what I imagine Infinite should be after Testing lobbies find out the best settings.

Maybe a hot take or whatever but thrust is equally as stupid as sprint. 

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I really think if we ever wanted a classic styled Halo to be released (the absence of sprint/AAs etc) we'd have to get some real greybeard type developers to at least be the leads for a project like that. Outside of specifically original Halo trilogy fans you have to go way back to find people who generally created/played mostly games that didn't involve a lot of the current trends or feel like sprint should just exist because its in everything. People that essentially aren't influenced that heavily by what is current or going on for the last decade or so. I think it would honestly be really cool to see though even if it wasn't a Halo title 

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4 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I really think if we ever wanted a classic styled Halo to be released (the absence of sprint/AAs etc) we'd have to get some real greybeard type developers to at least be the leads for a project like that. Outside of specifically original Halo trilogy fans you have to go way back to find people who generally created/played mostly games that didn't involve a lot of the current trends or feel like sprint should just exist because its in everything. People that essentially aren't influenced that heavily by what is current or going on for the last decade or so. I think it would honestly be really cool to see though even if it wasn't a Halo title 

Isn't Multilock working on something like that as we speak?

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7 minutes ago, Hully said:

Isn't Multilock working on something like that as we speak?

From the little bit I've read it sounds similar except in his case it would be more like a distaste for how things have been more recently I'd imagine. What I'm talking about is just more or less being curious about what it would be like if people who made a lot of the older games made an FPS in the spirit of what they made before. So it would be like old CE or Quake devs producing something that looks new but feels old in a good way 

Imo the general age of people gaming is at the point where things like this could actually make sense and work

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1 minute ago, Snipe Three said:

From the little bit I've read it sounds similar except in his case it would be more like a distaste for how things have been more recently I'd imagine. What I'm talking about is just more or less being curious about what it would be like if people who made a lot of the older games made an FPS in the spirit of what they made before. So it would be like old CE or Quake devs producing something that looks new but feels old in a good way 

Doom (2016) would like to introduce himself to you.

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Just now, Morachip said:

Doom (2016) would like to introduce himself to you.

I was thinking about that game while I was typing that lol. Its a good example of how it can work even if that game definitely has a little bit extra added to it

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15 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I was thinking about that game while I was typing that lol. Its a good example of how it can work even if that game definitely has a little bit extra added to it

Are you talking MP, because that shit was not well received by Doom fans, at all. 

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8 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Are you talking MP, because that shit was not well received by Doom fans, at all. 

Nah mostly SP. Multiplayer is kinda ehh. Not that people never played doom multiplayer before but I wouldn't have ever really called it great the series just kind of pioneered a lot of things and its where you could feel a lot of the new stuff in Doom 2016. I'm sure there are some Doom fans out there that would kill me for this but I actually didn't ever think Doom was that good. It was an insanely good proof of concept type game though that showed where FPS games could go

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DOOM 2016 was a fun albeit very flawed MP. Showed lots of potential though with the fast movement, variety of gametypes and map design was honestly great. I was so excited when id announced that the Eternal MP would be developed in-house instead of outsourced to the geniouses at Certain Affinity.

Fast forward to June of this year when they annouced Eternal won't have any real PvP multiplayer.

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