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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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2 minutes ago, Riddler said:

Beachlan didnt get sponsored by 343 because it’s not not-grassroots enough for the grassroots program.

That’s because 343 looks at classic halo as their competitor, not their baby.  

Also, beachlan doesn’t fit their disneyfied vision of halo.  

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24 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

Always remember boys, the casual everyday Halo player thinks we're a bunch of nerds that take the game too seriously and drain the fun out of the gameplay.  Never forget the core root of the problem.  Bungie created that culture of looking down on competitive Halo.

Off topic but i just saw ur xbl message from thursday. Its stupid as fuck that xbl messages dont show up on pc lol. 

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2 minutes ago, Riddler said:

Off topic but i just saw ur xbl message from thursday. Its stupid as fuck that xbl messages dont show up on pc lol. 

Check your notification settings.  They absolutely do show up on PC. 

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I was so excited when they announced Grassroots as the future of 343's involvement with competitive Halo until Infinite. I felt the dev driven nature of HCS really prevented any form of natural community forming and there being no open LAN tournaments organized by third parties that could pair with HCS. The idea of them saying "okay, we aren't doing anything ourselves, do events on your own like the old days, but we will still help out with some prize money and Xbox rentals" seemed like a great way to rebuild the community and strengthen the base scene in preparation for Infinite. The scene might have been smaller and less glamourous than the HCS years, with tournaments not running as well as smaller, less supported TOs got things together, but the benefit of having a more organic tournament scene that could work with 343 and organically function in way to help avoid AR/radar starts and lack of open LANs would be fantastic.

And while it's been great that UGC has been able to run events and has been supported in their attempts to function as a solid Halo TO, the program's lack of support for Beach LAN, the greatest example of the type of thing the system was advertised as being intended to support, really highlights the program's shortcomings. Looking at how Dreamhacks and UGC events have been run, it seems like 343 maintains heavy involvement in their planning and execution and it's not really just them providing support for a tournament that would stand on its own - just look to their involvement in determining settings for the tournaments rather than letting everyone else figure out what settings and gametypes to use for an event.

To be fair, I recognize that a grassroots community is hard to build in 2019 with Halo 5 getting older and interested in competitive Halo splitting amongst H5 and older titles and there possibly wouldn't be anything to support without 343 taking an active hand in working with third parties. But the existence of Beach LAN would've been a start and the release of Reach wouldn't been another. And it's not like there wouldn't have been any TO trying to run H3 tournaments in there at any point. Maybe there would've been fewer events if 343 wasn't involved beyond taking applications for prize money and Xbox rentals, but the events would in theory draw stronger demand and actually build a grassroots community.

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11 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:
11 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

Check your notification settings.  They absolutely do show up on PC. 

On steam or xbl? Def on for xbox. 

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54 minutes ago, Riddler said:

 

Oh shit, my bad.  I forgot that it's because I have the "console companion" app installed.  Yea, not sure if it's possible without that or the Xbox App installed. 

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17 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

Oh shit, my bad.  I forgot that it's because I have the "console companion" app installed.  Yea, not sure if it's possible without that or the Xbox App installed. 

Last i checked xbox app doesnt work with win7, a support platform for mcc. Its ridiculous that there even needs to be a 3rd party app

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I really dislike the sentiment that we should be playing older Halo's, and that the community should step up and run LAN's for those games. Beach LAN gets a couple hundred viewers at best, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only people that attend it are really old, die hard CE fans that have every nade spot and power-up timing memorised with muscle memory. It's not really accessible for new players. Hell, I was watching BuBu play it the other day and he admitted he thought it was a borefest. Lethul said he hates reach, and that even though he loves Halo 3 he was already sick of it after the ugc events. Not to mention we got bottom barrel views during the H3 events. Now I see people pushing for H2C events. Like why? It just seems like Halo classics aren't like Smash or CS etc. Nobody actually at the end of the day would attend these events.

We just need a fresh Halo that refines (as Shekkles put it) on the classic Halo style, and we need  pros, content creators, AND 343 to step up to the plate and take advantage of the hype from the get go. With the new Esports Engine announcement I'm somewhat hopeful.

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11 minutes ago, Exidrion said:

I really dislike the sentiment that we should be playing older Halo's, and that the community should step up and run LAN's for those games. Beach LAN gets a couple hundred viewers at best, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only people that attend it are really old, die hard CE fans that have every nade spot and power-up timing memorised with muscle memory. It's not really accessible for new players. Hell, I was watching BuBu play it the other day and he admitted he thought it was a borefest. Lethul said he hates reach, and that even though he loves Halo 3 he was already sick of it after the ugc events. Not to mention we got bottom barrel views during the H3 events. Now I see people pushing for H2C events. Like why? It just seems like Halo classics aren't like Smash or CS etc. Nobody actually at the end of the day would attend these events.

We just need a fresh Halo that refines (as Shekkles put it) on the classic Halo style, and we need  pros, content creators, AND 343 to step up to the plate and take advantage of the hype from the get go. With the new Esports Engine announcement I'm somewhat hopeful.

This is my take, and basically the sentiment of the vid I'm working on.  The data Moses had showed that there was basically no difference between H5 and the return of H3 apart from the inaugural H3 event.  The community definitely needs to step up to  the plate, but so does 343.  H5 had a TON of potential that they squandered.  If Infinite has a solid core, and they're willing to make the necessary settings changes, we can absolutely see large growth within the scene. 

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1 hour ago, Morachip said:

BeachLAN is a part of the grassroots program.  

That tweet doesnt mean what you think it means. They tweeted out the event. Yay, so much dev support. 
 

@Exidrion you could say the same about any grassroots event. If isai, the goat of smash64, hosted a beach lan, only the people who play smash64 would show up. Tho beachlan has people of varying skill. Like you dont have to be on the cusp of taking a game off legend, just know how to play the game. There’s also enough big lans throughout the year to even host a circuit. 
 

im not going to claim ce is the answer. Its definitely not. Its just the grassroots program should have been setting up for the release of infinite but all its doing is being a money pit to throw money at old halo3 pros. 
 

 

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The community is only a small wheel in the cog. 
 

lets not forget. 
 

1. Events have routinely sucked. Stream going down. Events coming to a halt because of internet problems.... at every event. 
 

2. streams have more down time than actual gameplay. 
 

3. its not fun at these events for the attendees.  DH atl is terrible. Youre scrunched into a section, surrounded by ear rape all day, you also cant hear fucking shit to even converse with anyone at all. Theres no place to play games. 
 

4. Game just sucks. You know whats worse than playing an old game, playing an old game that plays worse. Its hard enough to play customs without the game crashing. You get so many bloodshots and ghost melees on lan, much less online.  theres no dedis for customs. Theres no leaderboard. Spawns are broke. 
 

5. Events happen spur of the moment. I already know the date of beach lan 2020 but this simple concept is to hard for the 343 esports team to grasp. People like to plan out their PTO for the year  

6. and the community sucks. No one is proud to play halo except naded and evadur. Community is also toxic outside of a few circles. 

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1 hour ago, Exidrion said:

I really dislike the sentiment that we should be playing older Halo's, and that the community should step up and run LAN's for those games. Beach LAN gets a couple hundred viewers at best, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only people that attend it are really old, die hard CE fans that have every nade spot and power-up timing memorised with muscle memory. It's not really accessible for new players. Hell, I was watching BuBu play it the other day and he admitted he thought it was a borefest. Lethul said he hates reach, and that even though he loves Halo 3 he was already sick of it after the ugc events. Not to mention we got bottom barrel views during the H3 events. Now I see people pushing for H2C events. Like why? It just seems like Halo classics aren't like Smash or CS etc. Nobody actually at the end of the day would attend these events.

We just need a fresh Halo that refines (as Shekkles put it) on the classic Halo style, and we need  pros, content creators, AND 343 to step up to the plate and take advantage of the hype from the get go. With the new Esports Engine announcement I'm somewhat hopeful.

Wont know until we actually get a damn H2 event.

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2 hours ago, Exidrion said:

 Beach LAN gets a couple hundred viewers at best, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only people that attend it are really old, die hard CE fans that have every nade spot and power-up timing memorised with muscle memory.

The average age of people playing video games these days is 35. Thought I should throw that out seeing how I feel extremely attacked lol

Fair point @Squatting Bear There has only been online tournaments and H2A LANs. Can anyone remember the last H2C LAN? I can. It was 2014 and 10 teams showed up which is the only reason I won. 

Knightyknight.jpg

 

Before that I can't remember a well ran H2 LAN besides Major League Gaming Las Vegas National Championships in 2007! I think it's time. 

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I'm not convinced this can be laid at the feet of the competitive community, either there is demand for Halo content or there is not, Halo hasn't been in demand for damn near 10 years at this point and I'm not sure how you can blame the few people that bothered to stay around for that.

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

5. Events happen spur of the moment. I already know the date of beach lan 2020 but this simple concept is to hard for the 343 esports team to grasp. People like to plan out their PTO for the year  

 

this is why im super pumped about @Clapcoming back and promising a full 12 month roadmap. i would love to make it to a halo event but its currently impossible with 1-2 months advance notice

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53 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

The average age of people playing video games these days is 35. Thought I should throw that out seeing how I feel extremely attacked lol

Fair point @Squatting Bear There has only been online tournaments and H2A LANs. Can anyone remember the last H2C LAN? I can. It was 2014 and 10 teams showed up which is the only reason I won. 

Knightyknight.jpg

 

Before that I can't remember a well ran H2 LAN besides Major League Gaming Las Vegas National Championships in 2007! I think it's time. 

The FFA at Esports Arena is a little more recent.

https://youtu.be/n4ygOH6BjGY

 

And after Vegas, MLG ran the Canadian Open in Toronto.  FB beat Str8 in the finals of that event.

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5 hours ago, Exidrion said:

I really dislike the sentiment that we should be playing older Halo's, and that the community should step up and run LAN's for those games. Beach LAN gets a couple hundred viewers at best, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only people that attend it are really old, die hard CE fans that have every nade spot and power-up timing memorised with muscle memory. It's not really accessible for new players. Hell, I was watching BuBu play it the other day and he admitted he thought it was a borefest. Lethul said he hates reach, and that even though he loves Halo 3 he was already sick of it after the ugc events. Not to mention we got bottom barrel views during the H3 events. Now I see people pushing for H2C events. Like why? It just seems like Halo classics aren't like Smash or CS etc. Nobody actually at the end of the day would attend these events.

We just need a fresh Halo that refines (as Shekkles put it) on the classic Halo style, and we need  pros, content creators, AND 343 to step up to the plate and take advantage of the hype from the get go. With the new Esports Engine announcement I'm somewhat hopeful.

It's kind of missing the point of the article. The article isn't saying that the comp Halo community should be playing older games now, more why didn't the comp Halo community do something in the moment when they were actually relevant.

The sustainability of the Halo community hinged on the success of a single entity, MLG, under the guise of commercial mainstream success - everything else got flushed be it third party local grass roots participation / international participation / meaningful online participation.

I don't blame MLG because they too were a grassroots start up, wanted to create a monopoly and were fucking good at what they were doing. But that is basically what happened, the competitive community sold its soul to one entity assuming they wouldn't need anything else and it backfired. When the competitive community gave up autonomy it lead down a track of playing more and more mediocre games under worsening settings along with a completele absence of the parts that make up the foundations of other successful grassroots esports titles.

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Oh I didn't read the article yet, I just saw some people alluding to that, and to me it's painfully unrealistic.

 

Don't get me wrong, an H2C event might be something worth watching as long as there's no Lockout TS XD.

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6 minutes ago, Exidrion said:

Oh I didn't read the article yet, I just saw some people alluding to that, and to me it's painfully unrealistic.

 

Don't get me wrong, an H2C event might be something worth watching as long as there's no Lockout TS XD.

It is well worth reading the article. The writer obviously isn't the biggest fan of the comp Halo community but there are some valid criticisms and lessons to be learned.

What Halo needs to succeed on any relevant metric going forward is really its own subject.

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11 minutes ago, careh said:

 there are some valid criticisms and lessons to be learned.

Exactly.  I wasn't a huge fan of the article, for various reasons, but there were absolutely some things that can be taken away from it.  

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29 minutes ago, Exidrion said:

Oh I didn't read the article yet, I just saw some people alluding to that, and to me it's painfully unrealistic.

 

Don't get me wrong, an H2C event might be something worth watching as long as there's no Lockout TS XD.

It's the best gametype brother.

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