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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2020 Discussion Thread

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6 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

Twice. Lol. I totally agree though. The nuanced and "right" approach is to just allow people to choose which input devices they play against and if the answer is "no controllers" and you're on a PC that should disable aim assist/controllers entirely and for console the same option should just be a yes/no to mkb. If the answer is "yes" on either platform that enables crossplay.  It would be an ever so slightly more polished version of what PC MW has right now. It would do nothing but provide faster matching and a more healthy/larger community. Its strange to me that people actively want a shitty solution that will obviously ruin the population on PC. There is no PC Halo community to speak of and while we should foster one (see above) taking out the community that already exists on PC, many of which use controllers, would be pretty stupid for no guaranteed gain. 343 should have actually waited until it was ready instead of picking which side to screw over. 

There is no Halo PC community because the potential to grow one has already been completely derailed because the game did not cater to the users of the platform, therefore the market that could have existed for comp Halo on PC has moved on because they see the game as illegitimate.

Mouse obviously punishes human error way more than controller does in it's current functional state, and thats very clear to see on display when you have some of the best mouse and keyboard players struggling to keep a steady shot vs controller players who don't even have to put and ounce of effort into their gameplay. 

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6 hours ago, Basu said:

There needs to be crossplay and then they should separate MM based on input device at least in ranked. Imagine if this game wasn't rushed out the door for Christmas sales and actually launched in a decent state. 

This has nothing to do with being rushed. This problem exists because 1) this is how they wanted it, 2) the population is eventually going to be so small that separating by input is actually going to cause an issue, and 3) having old Halo games on PC was always going to have this problem - it was completely unavoidable. You can't turn down aim assist for controllers that much, or they're not going to be able to hit shit either, and then you've alienated a fuckton of your user base who were fully planning on playing Halo on PC with a controller from the very start.

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6 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

This has nothing to do with being rushed. This problem exists because 1) this is how they wanted it, 2) the population is eventually going to be so small that separating by input is actually going to cause an issue, and 3) having old Halo games on PC was always going to have this problem - it was completely unavoidable. You can't turn down aim assist for controllers that much, or they're not going to be able to hit shit either, and then you've alienated a fuckton of your user base who were fully planning on playing Halo on PC with a controller from the very start.

Fuck them, cater to PC players, get controllers out. If you want to use controller, XBOX is there for them. No crossplay. It isn't that hard to fucking make that happen. 

M&K = PC

Controller = Xbox

Problem solved. 

If Halo dies a slow painful death, then let it die. But I'd rather it go out properly, than go out with this embarrassment we have now. 

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12 hours ago, arglactable said:

There's literally no reason controller aim assist needs to exist in a multiplayer FPS on PC. Hopefully 343 realizes this with Infinite or that game's "competitive" modes will be a waste of time too.

I love how HALO has to be the exception but literally every game minus splitgate has auto aim on PC. If it's multiplatform it will have it. I agree it should be toned down but to outright remove it is just stupid. You're on mouse, you can own controller. When they fix it at least. Shits broke as hell now, and the framerate doesn't help being choppy when u move it.

 

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3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

This has nothing to do with being rushed. This problem exists because 1) this is how they wanted it, 2) the population is eventually going to be so small that separating by input is actually going to cause an issue, and 3) having old Halo games on PC was always going to have this problem - it was completely unavoidable. You can't turn down aim assist for controllers that much, or they're not going to be able to hit shit either, and then you've alienated a fuckton of your user base who were fully planning on playing Halo on PC with a controller from the very start.

Meh. this reminds me so much of the mixed playlists debacle. Took them four years of people yelling at them to stop with that shit and allow players to check boxes which games they want to play. It wasn't there at launch, it was never added in the follow-up patches, it wasn't there for the big relaunch patch. Only months later after the game died again did they add the match composer. Had that been there from the beginning (and MCC wasn't knowingly released as a total PoS) MCC would've maintained 10x the population.

And now the same thing for the PC launch. People told them to not mix controller and MKB from the beginning, especially in ranked playlists. Putting stuff like forge, theater, file sharing, crossplay and custom game browser on the "lemme get to that later bro" list was a typical 343 oversight. Aside from very poorly supported modding there is just no incentive to play the game on PC. Bad optimization, MKB is at a disadvantage in MM, crashes, audio bugs etc etc.

I'm not saying turn down AA for controllers, because that will piss people off and make crossplay even less of a thing. I'm saying add crossplay sooner or later and let people decided if they want to get matched against different types of input devices. Modern Warfare can do it, so can we.

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6 hours ago, Humpflung said:

Fuck them, cater to PC players, get controllers out. If you want to use controller, XBOX is there for them. No crossplay. It isn't that hard to fucking make that happen. 

M&K = PC

Controller = Xbox

Problem solved. 

If Halo dies a slow painful death, then let it die. But I'd rather it go out properly, than go out with this embarrassment we have now. 

This is what I meant with the post you quoted earlier. There is no reason to do that. They could just add a toggle before you start MM and let the rest of the players who don't really mind have a larger community that lasts longer while you'd still be playing against only mkb players if that's what you preferred. Halo is not a PC game, new, or popular. You are not getting a big PC only competitive community for decade+ old games. It was never going to happen that way. You're just upset that you've probably been getting worked by controllers based on the last week of posts so you want them to be upset too rather than wanting 343 to come to an actual solution lol or at least that's how it comes off

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6 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

This is what I meant with the post you quoted earlier. There is no reason to do that. They could just add a toggle before you start MM and let the rest of the players who don't really mind have a larger community that lasts longer while you'd still be playing against only mkb players if that's what you preferred. Halo is not a PC game, new, or popular. You are not getting a big PC only competitive community for decade+ old games. It was never going to happen that way. You're just upset that you've probably been getting worked by controllers based on the last week of posts so you want them to be upset too rather than wanting 343 to come to an actual solution lol or at least that's how it comes off

Yeah, this is basically all you need. Input based matchmaking toggles that are clear to players. Casts a wider net, doesn't alienate Halo's literal audience, and provides an option over just fucking people over who may wanna play this game with their preferred input. While allowing PC players to come in on their own, too.

But. Yunno. Input elitism, lol. 

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1 hour ago, Snipe Three said:

This is what I meant with the post you quoted earlier. There is no reason to do that. They could just add a toggle before you start MM and let the rest of the players who don't really mind have a larger community that lasts longer while you'd still be playing against only mkb players if that's what you preferred. Halo is not a PC game, new, or popular. You are not getting a big PC only competitive community for decade+ old games. It was never going to happen that way. You're just upset that you've probably been getting worked by controllers based on the last week of posts so you want them to be upset too rather than wanting 343 to come to an actual solution lol or at least that's how it comes off

It's completely redundant because if you want to play a certain demographic of players, the option is already there. We do not need arbitrary filters. 

If you want to play PC you must learn the mouse and keyboard. 

If you want to stick to what you know, xbox has got you covered. 

The choice is simple. Let the ecosystem of both platforms develop naturally. Giving people an option turns into exactly the problem we have now, which is turning people away from Halo, rather than letting the game grow and prosper on both platforms by their own merits. 

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30 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

Giving people an option turns into exactly the problem we have now, which is turning people away from Halo, 

People are being turned away from Halo specifically because that option doesn't exist...

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6 minutes ago, Hully said:

People are being turned away from Halo specifically because that option doesn't exist...

No. People are being turned away because there are controllers on their platform

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5 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

No. People are being turned away because there on controllers on their platform

And if the option to not match controller players existed it would be a non issue.

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1 minute ago, Hully said:

And if the option to not match controller players existed it would be a non issue.

Why even have it when people coming to the platform, for the most part, are wanting the M&K experience? 

We don't need an option. There are 2 different platforms that are perfectly capable of catering to the needs of specific players. If you want to learn one or the other, you have to do so by putting in the time. 

I find it completely ludicrous that people in Summits chat, just for the sake of argument, feel the need to tell him to try controller simply because he wanted Halo to be his go to comp game. He shouldn't have to adapt or change the way he plays just because the pros will not change their input, and the fact comp Halo players and pros think coming to the PC platform, the beholden of successful Esports titles, and think the game is going to grow with controllers at the top is such a joke.


What then will you say when it comes to Major events in 2020?  Separate M&K and Controller events? How will that work? What's the benifit? If not then M&K and controller events together? Well the controllers will take the helm because the M&K players won't have any practice against them. 

Everything you speak about just grows bigger and bigger roots of problems outwards, and it will continue to grow and will never stop until the community comes to an agreement on

What platform should be used

What input should be sanctioned
What are the benefits to M&K or controller.
What will events look like to the average Esports fans (not just Halo fans)
What will help the scene grow and appeal to Halo heads and people new to the game


And I honestly think, in my humble opinion, M&K only events are the only way to grow the audience for Halo.

 I think there is way more to benefit from on PC vs console, and in order to do that the game must be presented properly to the proper audience, and current Halo heads are not enough to sustain our scene going into 2020 and into Infinite. 

So again I say, this really is the ONE LEGITIMATE time that adapt is the proper answer, and if we do not, Halo will die faster than it did before. 

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If people are wanting the M&K experience, there wouldn't be so many controller players. When you're playing a franchise that has more or less been controller exclusive for close to 20 years, it's not exactly surprising that most players are most comfortable with that input method. I don't really know what the future for Halo esports holds, but I find it odd that the solution for Halo needs to be so dramatic, when basically every major PC FPS has options for using a controller, but most people play with M&K anyways. 

Honestly man this just reeks of unironic PC masterrace. 

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1 hour ago, Humpflung said:

It's completely redundant because if you want to play a certain demographic of players, the option is already there. We do not need arbitrary filters. 

If you want to play PC you must learn the mouse and keyboard. 

If you want to stick to what you know, xbox has got you covered. 

The choice is simple. Let the ecosystem of both platforms develop naturally. Giving people an option turns into exactly the problem we have now, which is turning people away from Halo, rather than letting the game grow and prosper on both platforms by their own merits. 

no genius PC is PC because of the freedom. Custom FOV, custom resolution, custom fov, OPTIONAL INPUT! 

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6 minutes ago, Hully said:

If people are wanting the M&K experience, there wouldn't be so many controller players. When you're playing a franchise that has more or less been controller exclusive for close to 20 years, it's not exactly surprising that most players are most comfortable with that input method. I don't really know what the future for Halo esports holds, but I find it odd that the solution for Halo needs to be so dramatic, when basically every major PC FPS has options for using a controller, but most people play with M&K anyways. 

Honestly man this just reeks of unironic PC masterrace. 

There are controller players because they're already Halo players. It's pretty obvious. There is literally no reason to jump to PC, as a Halo player, unless you wanted mouse and keyboard and that is exactly why I personally switched. To bring legitimacy to Halo. 

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5 minutes ago, znot said:

no genius PC is PC because of the freedom. Custom FOV, custom resolution, custom fov, OPTIONAL INPUT! 

and one of the defining things that makes PC what it is, is M&K FPS and people who use the platform gravitate to that. They will not gravitate to controllers. Ever. Never. It will not happen and it's going to put any chance Halo had on the platform into a premature grave 

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14 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

There are controller players because they're already Halo players. It's pretty obvious. There is literally no reason to jump to PC, as a Halo player, unless you wanted mouse and keyboard and that is exactly why I personally switched. To bring legitimacy to Halo. 

There are a lot of reason to switch from Xbox to PC outside of switching your input method though. I just don't like the idea of basically putting a massive sign up in front of PC halo that reads "Only M&K players welcome, controller players go back to where you came from!"

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7 minutes ago, Hully said:

There are a lot of reason to switch from Xbox to PC outside of switching your input method though. I just don't like the idea of basically putting a massive sign up in front of PC halo that reads "Only M&K players welcome, controller players go back to where you came from!"

I dont see how that is a problem

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7 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

I dont see how that is a problem

And that in and of itself is a problem.

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6 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

Okay how so?

I don't know, gatekeeping an input method to a community built around that specific method seems like a bad idea to me. Call me crazy I guess. 

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9 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

Okay how so?

Dude you both want the same thing, but your solution is extremist while his is reasonable.

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39 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

and one of the defining things that makes PC what it is, is M&K FPS and people who use the platform gravitate to that. They will not gravitate to controllers. Ever. Never. It will not happen and it's going to put any chance Halo had on the platform into a premature grave 

Never forget the biggest comp game on the planet compromises with full controller support. Not saying people use it, but the fact it's even an option is huge.

Again, just offering input matchmaking toggles would be the perfect solution. So you don't have to deal with gamepads if you don't want to, and gamepad users don't have to deal with M&K. Win/win, larger pool of players overall, given you don't exclude one fully.

DRHVAl1.png

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25 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Never forget the biggest comp game on the planet compromises with full controller support. Not saying people use it, but the fact it's even an option is huge.

Again, just offering input matchmaking toggles would be the perfect solution. So you don't have to deal with gamepads if you don't want to, and gamepad users don't have to deal with M&K. Win/win, larger pool of players overall, given you don't exclude one fully.

DRHVAl1.png

I am confused why u posted csgo ss instead of a ss of the biggest comp game, fortnite, which also offers controller support. 
 

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1 minute ago, Riddler said:

I am confused why u posted csgo ss instead of a ss of the biggest comp game fortnite, which also offers controller support. 
 

I forget Fortnite exists half the time.

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