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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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8 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

You foolz crazy. Modern aim is the best thing that's happened to this game 

Bruh it has not helped me one bit. I swear.

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1 minute ago, PLaTaNo said:

Bruh it has not helped me one bit. I swear.

Hmu on Xbox. Need teammates anyway. Probably not you. Running solo is always brutal 

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13 minutes ago, Humpflung said:

Hmu on Xbox. Need teammates anyway. Probably not you. Running solo is always brutal 

What’s ya tag? I’m online right now, shoot me a message whenever ya hop on so I get the notification on my phone, DiRtY PLaTaNo.

Might partly be that I’m playing from South Korea but I don’t wanna blame connection at all even though I got some outrageous clips from my POV of stupid shit that happens to me.

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10 hours ago, valaea said:

wait so seriously, what happened with crowdfunding for UGC?  were prize pools increased?

Crowdfunding raised only about 700 dollars per the UGC site. MoneyMatches/Cinch Gaming (same owner) payed out the rest of the goal to get them to 5000 in "crowd" funding in exchange for being a partner with the event. 

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12 hours ago, Mentalityy_TLC said:

How much of a difference would I see between 150mbps download and say 250? 400? 1000? For Halo 3

Currently at 150 down, 20 up, 30ish ping. Those numbers would improve as well along with download

Absolutely none as download speed doesnt increase ping. The worst case halo game requires 5mb down which is h2a. So unless your roomates are streaming 4 4k movies at once, dont upgrade. Now they may improve your routing since ur paying more, but they usually dont. Divide distance by light speed on speedtest and if ur ping is close, its impossible to get it faster. 

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13 hours ago, Mentalityy_TLC said:

How much of a difference would I see between 150mbps download and say 250? 400? 1000? For Halo 3

Currently at 150 down, 20 up, 30ish ping. Those numbers would improve as well along with download

Not a ton.  150/20 is MORE than enough to get good matches.  The big thing is to make sure you're playing on a wired connection if you aren't already, the difference is night and day. 

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1 hour ago, Trespa5s said:

Not a ton.  150/20 is MORE than enough to get good matches.  The big thing is to make sure you're playing on a wired connection if you aren't already, the difference is night and day. 

Also, if one has an old router, upgrading can be hugely beneficial. This is especially true when one has high down/up and the new router supports smart queue management which alleviates buffer bloat. Some old routers can have their firmware flashed with OpenWRT or similar projects to support SQM as well.

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2 hours ago, Zavehi said:

Crowdfunding raised only about 700 dollars per the UGC site. MoneyMatches/Cinch Gaming (same owner) payed out the rest of the goal to get them to 5000 in "crowd" funding in exchange for being a partner with the event. 

it's unfortunate but I'm not that surprised, the key with crowdfunding (i.e. the International or the first HWC) is that you get something game-related for the $$

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19 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Str8 Sick has a won both FFA and 4v4 LAN tournaments before.

Wait, what 4v4 event did he win?

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8 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

First, difficulty coming from punishment from the opponent will happen in any Halo, even in Halo 4 with a beam rifle. If you are rushed by anyone holding their utility and you have a sniper, in any Halo, I guarantee you'll be punished. Maybe you'll get a lucky no scope as we all do, but the idea of punishment isn't new there and happens everywhere else. Punishment aside, raw aiming sure as fucking hell is not, lmao. And if your comparison method is Halo 3, a sniper that is nowhere near as hard as people say it is, that bar is lower than Halo 5's lifetime relevance. 

Second, can we stop the fallacy of "Oh, you think X because you lack skill and/or didn't put in practice." No one here barring three people I know on this forum have seen me play in recent times, lmao. And furthermore, even if I didn't practice, the fact it's inconsistent has nothing to do with my skill. If I were good, or if I were bad, having someone simply outwalk my bullets, or me whiffing my first or second shots because distance judgement can't be 100% accurate as is would happen regardless and still be inconsistent, lmao. My whiffing there isn't a matter of me being poor in aiming. It's a matter of me guessing distance and re-calibrating subconsciously. It's never something that I think "how do I improve this" with. Never has been. Because it's simply not a matter of me getting better, lol. I literally will only know if I lead well after I pull the trigger and my bullets hit. It's a reactive action, it's not proactive. No amount of practice can make me truly perfect a reactive action that I can only know the result of afterwards, never before. I can obviously guess and attempt to mitigate the results, as I do in Failo 3, but I will never reach that point where leading is no problemo to me, and I operate like a machine knowing distance and leading for sure, because the delta in distance and leading distance required will change from 20m, to 30m, to 50m, and so on, and lead to me eternally over or undershooting every so often, because it's literally that, me just guessing better. Which is what most of my Failo 3 fights are now, lol. Me just assuming over actually learning. Could four someone 20m out, and then five-six shot someone 27m out. And that itself will change based on how they move, be it vertically, or horizontally. It will never be something I'm sure of, walking to someone in Halo 3. Obviously I can get better to a point, as I have, but I won't be as good as I could be if guesswork was eliminated.

Then there's hitscan, where I know if I shoot at someone in RRR, or have someone center mass in white reticle, I will hit them and I know it. Because I'm aiming at them. Not off them, and just hoping they don't outwalk my bullets, lol. It's an immediate, proactive reaction I know I can perfect, because me actually aiming is a tangible skill I can work on. I can change where and how I aim, as I did moving my reticle down so I stop aiming at the head, years back. Me aiming off target and hoping the target is hit isn't a super tangible skill, and will always be subject to that actual inconsistency.

Besides, strafing is given way too much credit here. The tendency is simply moving left and right. The acceleration coupled with an already pretty slow movement speed pretty much nullifies it with any game but Halo 5, which allows you to crouch as you walk and gives some change to the formula.

 

Raw aiming the sniper in CE is harder than other Halo games, period. Every other Halo besides 3 has higher bullet magnetism, and they all have weaker utilities, and they're hitscan. You're right that every Halo you can rush with the utility and get kills but it's nowhere near the level of CE where you don't even have to rush actually. Compare the H3 tournament footage to CE footage, where H3 players would just prey on BR users who could do almost nothing even at fairly close ranges. The same phenomenon happens just to a lesser extent in other Halos. Compared to CE where the utility can take down a sniper from any range in 0.6 seconds. You can't peak out over and over knowing one shot from the utility does hardly any damage so you're basically safe. 

 

I bring up your lack of practice with leading on LAN because you continue to insist that leading is more guesswork and not a skill that can be trained through thousands of hours of practice and experience. Leading is not "inconsistent", not sure why you're claiming that. The lead is calculable. Judging that lead in an instant is absolutely a skill that doesn't really have a soft ceiling of diminishing returns as you suggest. Not to mention hitscan only has one component to its skill, just aiming. Leading requires aiming skill and predictive and distance judgment skill. That's why it's more skillful. 

I agree that strafing skill is overrated, that's exactly why I said most top players can generally still lead a strafe and shoot accurately through muscle memory because it's not as wildly unpredictable as you claim. It just takes thousands of hours of practice. 

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3 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

Not a ton.  150/20 is MORE than enough to get good matches.  The big thing is to make sure you're playing on a wired connection if you aren't already, the difference is night and day. 

I’m wired in. I wasn’t sure if it would help at all or not. Just tired of having shots not hit or getting warriored. Guess it’s just the game

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54 minutes ago, Mentalityy_TLC said:

I’m wired in. I wasn’t sure if it would help at all or not. Just tired of having shots not hit or getting warriored. Guess it’s just the game

Yeah like was already said the only hope you'd have is routing improvements. Which I guess if you already have a pretty bad ping are pretty possible. You'll just have to do more research 

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It just takes thousands of hours of practice.

more like a couple hours. Outside of halo 5, every halo has had the equivalent of an extremely sluggish ADAD strafe where crouching is useless and jumping just makes you a free kill. Add in the fuck huge reticle with aim assist and you get an aim skill cap that anyone with thumbs can reach after playing only a handful of times. With the sniper, the only thing making it even slightly difficult at times was the janky grid aiming. Now with this quality of life update its never been easier across all the games in MCC

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31 minutes ago, cH_ said:

It just takes thousands of hours of practice.

more like a couple hours. Outside of halo 5, every halo has had the equivalent of an extremely sluggish ADAD strafe where crouching is useless and jumping just makes you a free kill. Add in the fuck huge reticle with aim assist and you get an aim skill cap that anyone with thumbs can reach after playing only a handful of times. With the sniper, the only thing making it even slightly difficult at times was the janky grid aiming. Now with this quality of life update its never been easier across all the games in MCC

If it's so easy then I dunno why Kelly can't do it. 

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Just now, VinnyMendoza said:

If it's so easy then I dunno why Kelly can't do it. 

cause shes doo doo

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5 hours ago, VinnyMendoza said:

Raw aiming the sniper in CE is harder than other Halo games, period. Every other Halo besides 3 has higher bullet magnetism, and they all have weaker utilities, and they're hitscan. You're right that every Halo you can rush with the utility and get kills but it's nowhere near the level of CE where you don't even have to rush actually. Compare the H3 tournament footage to CE footage, where H3 players would just prey on BR users who could do almost nothing even at fairly close ranges. The same phenomenon happens just to a lesser extent in other Halos. Compared to CE where the utility can take down a sniper from any range in 0.6 seconds. You can't peak out over and over knowing one shot from the utility does hardly any damage so you're basically safe. 

I bring up your lack of practice with leading on LAN because you continue to insist that leading is more guesswork and not a skill that can be trained through thousands of hours of practice and experience. Leading is not "inconsistent", not sure why you're claiming that. The lead is calculable. Judging that lead in an instant is absolutely a skill that doesn't really have a soft ceiling of diminishing returns as you suggest. Not to mention hitscan only has one component to its skill, just aiming. Leading requires aiming skill and predictive and distance judgment skill. That's why it's more skillful. 

I agree that strafing skill is overrated, that's exactly why I said most top players can generally still lead a strafe and shoot accurately through muscle memory because it's not as wildly unpredictable as you claim. It just takes thousands of hours of practice. 

As I said for the sniper, that's a low bar. Halo 3 is a pretty easy sniper made easier now when you can actually aim. No scoping is hilariously easy at that. Wide hitboxes make it super generous. And to that point, yeah, the utility can shoot a sniper from "almost" any range in a perfect killtime of 0.6 seconds. But at a long enough range, no one's gonna just be threeing people. The potential to three a sniper is there. 

However, how is it calculable? There is no in game method to on the fly calculate distance reliably bar shooting and hoping your first round strikes. Again, reticle placement is more reactive than proactive, because while you may put your reticle ahead of someone, fire, and hit them multiple times, you may also do it, fire, miss a few more, and then have to readjust through no real fault of your own past the simple inaccuracy of our guesses, tied with a slower bullet. Or even through someone else's inadvertent movement. Furthermore, this idea that aiming with a hitscan weapon is "just aiming" is ridiculous. If it's so easy to do, and lacks depth, people wouldn't be getting dicked on, even with easier weaponry, and we'd be in a skill-based stalemate. Yet people will get dicked on constantly in Halos with hitscan, and we have defined pros. That one component is the one that matters because you're actually putting and holding your reticle on someone to shoot them, consistently, no guesswork required. And prediction from leading isn't a skill, it's that. Prediction, which isn't something you necessarily improve on, because it's guesswork. And distance judgement can again, change how you need to lead from 70m to 80m off, a change you realistically will not notice until your bullet either lands, or doesn't. Adding extra components to simply firing your gun doesn't make it more skillful by default.

And strafing does not take thousands of hours of practice to work on. I say it leads to inconsistency and that its goal is to be unpredictable, but my issue isn't really with it, just that someone can literally move right and despite my reticle being placed well, bullet delay can make someone simply outwalk it. And that only becomes worse at range.

Just now, VinnyMendoza said:

If it's so easy then I dunno why Kelly can't do it. 

Too this, you still haven't seen me play. You're basing this off of my argument, not performance, so I don't know where you get this idea I can't strafe or account for it when we probably haven't played together since 2016.  Stooooop it.

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5 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

If it's so easy then I dunno why Kelly can't do it. 

Why is the basis of your argument whether or not she can do it? Why not address the actual flaws of projectiles vs hitscan?

On that same note I don't think you can comment on anything H5. You can't mention how "easy" Spartan abilities are or how they're "get out of jail free cards". You can't mention anything about h5 being easy because if it were so easy you would've been at the same level as everyone else that played. And that wasn't the case. See how great this stance is? 

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31 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

As I said for the sniper, that's a low bar. Halo 3 is a pretty easy sniper made easier now when you can actually aim. No scoping is hilariously easy at that. Wide hitboxes make it super generous. And to that point, yeah, the utility can shoot a sniper from "almost" any range in a perfect killtime of 0.6 seconds. But at a long enough range, no one's gonna just be threeing people. The potential to three a sniper is there. 

However, how is it calculable? There is no in game method to on the fly calculate distance reliably bar shooting and hoping your first round strikes. Again, reticle placement is more reactive than proactive, because while you may put your reticle ahead of someone, fire, and hit them multiple times, you may also do it, fire, miss a few more, and then have to readjust through no real fault of your own past the simple inaccuracy of our guesses, tied with a slower bullet. Or even through someone else's inadvertent movement. Furthermore, this idea that aiming with a hitscan weapon is "just aiming" is ridiculous. If it's so easy to do, and lacks depth, people wouldn't be getting dicked on, even with easier weaponry, and we'd be in a skill-based stalemate. Yet people will get dicked on constantly in Halos with hitscan, and we have defined pros. That one component is the one that matters because you're actually putting and holding your reticle on someone to shoot them, consistently, no guesswork required. And prediction from leading isn't a skill, it's that. Prediction, which isn't something you necessarily improve on, because it's guesswork. And distance judgement can again, change how you need to lead from 70m to 80m off, a change you realistically will not notice until your bullet either lands, or doesn't. Adding extra components to simply firing your gun doesn't make it more skillful by default.

And strafing does not take thousands of hours of practice to work on. I say it leads to inconsistency and that its goal is to be unpredictable, but my issue isn't really with it, just that someone can literally move right and despite my reticle being placed well, bullet delay can make someone simply outwalk it. And that only becomes worse at range.

Too this, you still haven't seen me play. You're basing this off of my argument, not performance, so I don't know where you get this idea I can't strafe or account for it when we probably haven't played together since 2016.  Stooooop it.

I'm not saying you're bad. It was a tongue in cheek comment because you're saying it's inconsistent guesswork but Clay is saying it's really easy. Doesn't really jive to me. 

 

When I say it's calculable, I'm addressing you saying it's inconsistent. I'm not saying players are literally robots calculating it to an exact lead in real time. It's just a skill that you can mentally develop to approximate lead. 

And how is hitscan not "just aiming"? I thought that's what your entire argument was, that hitscan is black and white with no other factors. 

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12 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

I'm not saying you're bad. It was a tongue in cheek comment because you're saying it's inconsistent guesswork but Clay is saying it's really easy. Doesn't really jive to me. 

When I say it's calculable, I'm addressing you saying it's inconsistent. I'm not saying players are literally robots calculating it to an exact lead in real time. It's just a skill that you can mentally develop to approximate lead. 

And how is hitscan not "just aiming"? I thought that's what your entire argument was, that hitscan is black and white with no other factors. 

Most of this was handled in the Discord, but when I refer to the hitscan being "just aiming" I was referring to how you spoke on how there's only one element to hitscan. The aiming. As if it being there wasn't enough of a challenge there, or couldn't be. Not trying to say it's anything more than just aiming, but that aiming matters.

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